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A message to the Arab Loving Pakistanis

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Let's be clear. We don't like Israel because they occupy our holy sites, mainly fight those weaker than them, support India, and generally have a bone to pick with Muslims/Islam.

If the Arabs were not Muslim, I couldn't give a flying toss what Israel does to them. Their ethnicity is not special, and let's not forget how their idiocies have caused so many of the Muslim world's problems. They overthrew the Ottomans and now whine that their Western masters tossed them out like yesterday's garbage in favour of the Zionists. They had multiple opportunities to delete Israel but those fat oil barons were so concerned with maintaining their regimes that they purposely handicapped their armies. They've come begging to us for military support dozens of times, and we've almost always helped them. But the one time we don't (Yemen) they start picking up Modi's soap.

I for sure think Pakistan should align with them over the Iranians, but these guys are so spoilt it's hard not to want to drop a big fat nuke on Jeddah and call it a night.




NO. We don't support the Palestinians/Arabs, Jews/Israelis or Iranians. These are ALL Middle Eastern people who have NOTHING in common with Pakistanis. Their problems are not our problems. We support Pakistan and Pakistanis. Especially Pakistani nationalists.
 
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I second that, ever since i have arrived here in UAE for work i was baffled that how we Pakistanis are treated here by Arabs. I mean yes they treat all Asians with little or no respect but when it comes to Pakistan we are being treated here with biased behavior. One time i went to SAIF Zone office there was this message printed on paper everywhere Pakistanis, Afghans and Somalian in separate lane. Yes outta 200 nationalities these 3 were singled out i was really embarrassed looking how we're treated here. Before coming to UAE i was of the view man it would be fun since we Pakistanis are leader of all muslim world maybe I'll be treated with some respect over here. This biased behavior towards Pakistanis can be observed at any Arab country. All they need is our Army to defend them in return we don't even deserve respect.
Just my opinion based on my personal experiences



White Europeans treat Pakistanis FAR FAR better than Arabs/Middle Easterners do.
 
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Let's be clear. We don't like Israel because they occupy our holy sites, mainly fight those weaker than them, support India, and generally have a bone to pick with Muslims/Islam.

If the Arabs were not Muslim, I couldn't give a flying toss what Israel does to them. Their ethnicity is not special, and let's not forget how their idiocies have caused so many of the Muslim world's problems. They overthrew the Ottomans and now whine that their Western masters tossed them out like yesterday's garbage in favour of the Zionists. They had multiple opportunities to delete Israel but those fat oil barons were so concerned with maintaining their regimes that they purposely handicapped their armies. They've come begging to us for military support dozens of times, and we've almost always helped them. But the one time we don't (Yemen) they start picking up Modi's soap.

I for sure think Pakistan should align with them over the Iranians, but these guys are so spoilt it's hard not to want to drop a big fat nuke on Jeddah and call it a night.

I hate Israel not cause for the Arabs its mainly for their plans for Masjid Al-Aqsa their dragging of the Anglo Saxon world(UK and the USA) to the conflicts with the Middle East, also its true in the 1980s they wanted Pakistan Nuclear weapons program destroyed as much as General Zia Ul Haq made mistakes with domestic policy I credit him for saving our nation from becoming a Somalia or a Iraq he distracted Yankee and the West in Afghanistan and thus we were able to blast and show the Indians that they were not bosses of South Asia. The Arabs in the last century have been a nuisence to the Muslim World causes the worst sectarian conflict enriched their regimes used our nations army for their palace guard use us a proxies and also cheap labor and they blame Turks and Persians for their mess WTF Arab scums stop dragging to your pissing contests with the Turks and Persians
 
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I remember a time when there used to be a lot more members from across the world, on this forum. And with their departure we have lost the opportunity of having vibrant discussions on a myriad subjects. This vibrancy would have added nuance to our perspective on things. And so, ultimately, we are poorer because they are not here.

We must really learn to disagree with respect & courtesy. We must learn to have a more pragmatic outlook on the world and how things work in it. But above all, we must stop being so emotionally charged all the time and think through issues calmly and maturely.

This is not an Us vs Them world...this is an Us and Them world. Nothing is zero sum and life goes on. The sooner we wisen up to that truth, the sooner we'd move towards achieving the Pakistan of our dreams. One which is a citadel of peace, prosperity, love & progress.

There is a reason why some members react so hostile and angrily when it comes to Israel. For some reasons the anger is justified. As some people have already pointed out, the Israelis have never supported Pak nuclear status and tried to sabotage our endeavors. The Palestinian conflict compounds the anger. The propaganda spread by certain Zionist warmongers against Pakistan is also no secret.

There is a lot of mistrust and misconceptions. It is a very complex and sensitive issue. You can already gauge the response in this topic.

I agree with your point of view. We have to look at things pragmatically and find a balance. That is why I repeatedly keep pointing out to the Indian example. Look at how the Indians balance their relations without angering any side. India voted against Israel at the UN and the Israelis didn’t even mention it. Why? The Indians have perfected the art of balancing relations. They reap benefits from all
sides including the Arabs and the Israelis. The Palestinians are now lining up to ask India for favors.

Pakistan is mashAllah a blessing from Allah, but we have to live in the same planet with the rest. This world is like a game of chess where you have to make moves. You are responsible for every move you make. Every nation understands this game including the Palestinians. We must also play the game smartly without compromising our interests.
 
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NO. We don't support the Palestinians/Arabs, Jews/Israelis or Iranians. These are ALL Middle Eastern people who have NOTHING in common with Pakistanis. Their problems are not our problems. We support Pakistan and Pakistanis. Especially Pakistani nationalists.

This is true to some extent, but there is benefit to be taken out of supporting the Arabs so we should take it so long as it's halal.

And let's be clear, Israel does concern us too since they have a general problem with Muslims/Islam. But our hatred towards Israel is because of that and only that, not because Arabs are a holy race that need Ajamis to defend them.
 
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Appeasing Kuffar has made you lose your country and become little Bantustans.

We Pakistanis and Kashmiris have the will to fight for our future and won’t become slaves.

Shame on Fatah and its coward leadership.

Yet they are Pakistanis that want to send our boys to Yemen SMH and its not just PLO/Fatah its also bloody Hamas as well the only group that's uncuked is Hezbollah
 
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This is true to some extent, but there is benefit to be taken out of supporting the Arabs so we should take it so long as it's halal.

And let's be clear, Israel does concern us too since they have a general problem with Muslims/Islam. But our hatred towards Israel is because of that and only that, not because Arabs are a holy race that need Ajamis to defend them.
Well said.
 
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I hate Israel not cause for the Arabs its mainly for their plans for Masjid Al-Aqsa their dragging of the Anglo Saxon world(UK and the USA) to the conflicts with the Middle East, also its true in the 1980s they wanted Pakistan Nuclear weapons program destroyed as much as General Zia Ul Haq made mistakes with domestic policy I credit him for saving our nation from becoming a Somalia or a Iraq he distracted Yankee and the West in Afghanistan and thus we were able to blast and show the Indians that they were not bosses of South Asia. The Arabs in the last century have been a nuisence to the Muslim World causes the worst sectarian conflict enriched their regimes used our nations army for their palace guard use us a proxies and also cheap labor and they blame Turks and Persians for their mess WTF Arab scums stop dragging to your pissing contests with the Turks and Persians

Arabs went from being the backbone of Islam to arguably one of it's biggest blights.
 
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White Europeans treat Pakistanis FAR FAR better than Arabs/Middle Easterners do.
True that, i have my classmates studying/working in European countries the picture they paint about how they're treated over there breaks my heart why can't we have same treatment in Muslim Arab countries.
 
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Arabs are a holy race that need Ajamis to defend them.[/QUOTE]

I am glad our people have somewhat woken to this but many Bengali Muslims and Indian Muslims still look at them as big s...t
 
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You know that this is compounded by the fact that we don’t have normal relations with Israel? You also know that India sucks Israel into the Kashmir conflict and takes full advantage of absence of Pak Israel relation? This can only be countered of we change our Israel policy.
That is the reason, we have no anti Israel policy. We are neutral in all conflicts. Except one case. Later Israel scared away Pakistan in 1998 and now again we found the foot prints in Kashmir . Israeli guns killing unarmed Kashmiris .

The 2010 summer in the disputed area of Jammu and Kashmir, administered by India, has been marked by popular protests by Kashmiris and crackdowns by India’s military. The stream of violence has left more than fifty dead, mostly young protestors. The situation in Kashmir has some parallels with Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, even borrowing the term intifada to describe the uprising. But the connection is more than analogy — Israel’s pacification efforts against Palestinians have proven valuable for the Indian police, army and intelligence services in their campaigns to pacify Jammu and Kashmir with numerous Indian military and security imports from Israel leading the way.

India and Israel had a limited relationship prior to 1992. India, as a prominent member of the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM), had helped to form the NAM political positions on Palestine as part of the “struggle against imperialism, colonialism, neo-colonialism, apartheid, racism, including Zionism and all forms of expansionism, foreign occupation and domination and hegemony” (1979, Havana Declaration). Beyond its anti-colonial and Third World solidarity politics, India also had realpolitik reasons for keeping a distance from Israel. The nation had a developing economy with a huge need for petroleum resources, of which it had no domestic source. Good relations with the Arab League and the Soviet Union helped to secure access to resources necessary for India to become the regional and global economic power it aspires to be.

With the beginning of the Oslo negotiations process between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization in the mid-1990s and the end of the Cold War, India was free to pursue relations with Israel from a NAM standpoint. An end to the Israeli occupation was assumed a formality under Oslo by most international observers, especially early on — and had, by that time, gained the economic strength to pursue a policy taking it, as described in a US Army War College (USAWC) analysis, “from a position of nonalignment and noncommitment to having specific strategic interests taking it on a path of ‘poly-alignment.’” The report states that India has been in a “scramble to establish ‘strategic relationships’ with most of the major powers and many of the middle powers,” including Israel.

Israel rendered limited military assistance to India in its 1962 war with China and the 1965 and 1971 wars with Pakistan. It was not until after the Oslo process began though, that the limited military contacts developed into a fuller strategic relationship. According to The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, in 1994 “India requested equipment to guard the de facto Indo-Pakistan Kashmiri border. New Delhi was interested in Israeli fences, which use electronic sensors to track human movements” (Thomas Withington, “Israel and India partner up,” January/February 2001, pp.18-19). The remaining years of the decade were peppered with arms sales from Jerusalem to New Delhi, most notably unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and electronic warfare systems.

The strategic military relationship picked up even more steam in the new millennium and annual arms sales average in the hundreds of millions of dollars. The shift of Israel being a major defense supplier to a strategic partner was formalized in a September 2003 state visit by then-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to India where the Hindu nationalist government then in power, the Bharatiya Janata Party led by then-Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee, hosted the Israeli delegation and coauthored the Delhi Statement on Friendship and Cooperation between India and Israel. The statement’s longest segment is on terrorism. It declares that “Israel and India are partners in the battle against this scourge” and that “there cannot be any compromise in the war against terrorism.” The relationship has expanded drastically since 2000 with, in some recent years, Israel even supplanting Russia as India’s largest arms supplier. Surface-to-air missile systems, naval craft, advanced radar systems and other remote sensing technologies, artillery systems and numerous joint production initiatives ranging from munitions to avionics systems have all further boosted the relationship.

But as the Kashmiri uprising enters its third decade, the most telling part of the relationship is the export of Israeli pacification efforts against Palestinians to India, and their use in Jammu and Kashmir (and elsewhere as India faces multiple popular revolts). Israel has trained thousands of Indian military personnel in counterinsurgency since 2003. According to a 2003 JINSA analysis, “Presumably to equip these soldiers, India recently concluded a $30 million agreement with Israel Military Industries (IMI) for 3,400 Tavor assault rifles, 200 Galil sniper rifles, as well as night vision and laser range finding and targeting equipment.”

In 2004, the Israeli intelligence agencies Mossad and General Security Services (Shin Bet) arrived in India “to conduct the first field security surveillance course for Indian Army Intelligence Corps sleuths.” The Globes article on the topic cites an Indian source stating “The course has been designed to look at methods of intelligence gathering in insurgency affected areas, in keeping with the challenges that Israel has faced.” The further acquisition of UAVs, their joint production and the acquisition of other surveillance systems, notably 2010 agreements for both spy satellites and satellite communications systems, have all helped to further India’s pacification campaigns in Jammu and Kashmir. A notable example of how deeply embedded in India the Israeli counterinsurgency and homeland security industries are is the May 2010 agreement whereby Ra’anana-based Nice Systems will provide security systems and a command and control center for India’s parliament. Parliament security head Sandeep Salunke noted the context for the $5 million contract being “In light of the recent increase in global terrorism” (Nice Systems press release, 25 May 2010).

India’s political trend towards poly-alignment whereby it can have both strategic energy agreements with Iran and strategic defense agreements with Israel is part of a broader strategy the USAWC report noted by which “India will fiercely protect its own internal and bilateral issues from becoming part of the international dialog (Kashmir being the most obvious example).” This hostility towards international engagement with its occupation is not the only resemblance to Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Both were born out the the end of the British colonialism, both are seen as front lines of the “War on Terror,” both the Kashmiri and Palestinian armed groups are erroneously seen as illegitimate in their own right, being mere tools of a foreign aggressor (Pakistan for Kashmir and Iran or Syria for Palestine), both have widespread abuses of human rights, and the Israeli public’s general apathy about or hostility towards Palestinian self-determination is surpassed by the domestic discussion in India, where Kashmiri self-determination isn’t even an issue, though pacifying Kashmir and securing the border with Pakistan is.

The analogy between the two conflicts can only be taken so far, but the direct connection by which Israel’s pacification industry exports tools of control developed for use against the Palestinians (and Lebanese) to be deployed against Kashmiris (as well as against the Naxalites and others in India) shows a deep linkage between the two conflicts and how one feeds the other. So long as Israel seeks to maintain control over Palestine it will continue to develop pacification tools, and so long as India continues its campaigns in Jammu and Kashmir, Kashmiris can expect to taste the fruits of Palestinian pacification.

Jimmy Johnson is a Detroit-based mechanic and an organizer with the Palestine Cultural Office in Dearborn. He can be reached at johnson [dot] jimmy [at] gmail [dot] com.

@Indus Pakistan
 
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