A lie repeated often becomes truth---- the west used this trick to Xinjiang

[OIO]

First of all, Xinjiang being chaotic does not necessarily lead to Sino-US confrontation. If that be so, we could conclude that any chaotic place in China could lead to Sino-US confrontation, which doesn't seem to have strong logical support.

Second, nobody likes chaos, even bad people who only wish chaos on other people but not on themselves. Look how orderly Italian mafias managed Las Vegas.

Third, many ways to deal with chaos. Fundamentally, we want to reduce and even eliminate chaos. We certainly don't want to just sweep it under the rug, which will surely show up again sooner or later. That is why I don't think CCP's simple and rude method is constructive in the long run. They are simply attacking at the symptom but not at the cause. Xinjiang has been the fertile ground of chaos every since CCP took over. Many people outside of that region simply don't know much about it until it shows up on the newspapers. Unfortunately, CCPs don't understand the cause. So Xinjiang is stuck along with millions of people who still live there.

If you attribute Xinjiang’s problems to the Chinese Communist Party, there is nothing to discuss. Xinjiang’s problems are mainly the influence of the external world and the result of the painstaking efforts of hostile forces. For internal reasons, they are mainly economic backwardness and population growth exceeding land Carrying capacity.

You said that there is something wrong with the details of the Chinese Communist Party's governance of Xinjiang. I agree, but there is no problem with the overall situation in terms of direction.

 

[nang2]

If you attribute Xinjiang’s problems to the Chinese Communist Party, there is nothing to discuss. Xinjiang’s problems are mainly the influence of the external world and the result of the painstaking efforts of hostile forces. For internal reasons, they are mainly economic backwardness and population growth exceeding land Carrying capacity.

You said that there is something wrong with the details of the Chinese Communist Party's governance of Xinjiang. I agree, but there is no problem with the overall situation in terms of direction.

I don't simply blame CCP for Xinjiang's problems. However, since CCP is the ruling party and has certainly made many mistakes in Xinjiang, it is fair for it to take the lion share of the blame.

However, there are still problems with "the overall situation in terms of direction". If you have paid close attention to the whole history of Xinjiang after CCP took over, you will notice that they had done what they are doing now. Why would it work this time while it didn't work the last time?

There are only two methods CCPs employ to deal with Uyghurs in Xinjiang: bribery and oppression, alternatively. Back in 80s, bribery. Now, oppression. Neither has worked but CCPs don't know better because those are all they can think of. That is why I said Xinjiang is stuck.

 

[nature is]

There is a fundamental difference between CCP (CPC in your term) and many other Chinese governments before that. CCP wants to eradicate ALL religions. No other Chinese government has ever attempted that. Previous governments might give favors to some religions while oppressing other religions for whatever reason. CCP is the ONLY government in Chinese history that is hostile to ALL religions.

Yet all religions are still flourishing in China.

You're an Indian pretending to be Chinese. Your 60% pro-China, 40% troll China tactics can fool others but not me. You couldn't even read simple Chinese signboard Pakistani posted.

You didn't even know the meaning of a simple Chinese word, clearly your translation software failed.
Post 20, 21

Indians Known As Hindus When They Go Abroad: Mohan Bhagwat

I guess you must be weak at statistics , iirc there were a total of 1056 settlements were found 96 were excavated found Got this from the wiki mainly in the general region of the Sarasvati River and their tributaries. Among the settlements were the major urban centres of Harappa, Mohenjo-daro...

defence.pk

We can also see how you defend your Hindusim
Post 4

Learning Hinduism

Post 36

Buddhism and Ashoka responsible for India's decline and hardships

Hmmmph. Not a bad post. Most unexpected. :tup: We may have differences but most Indians are in the same page when it comes to outside India issues like these idiots.

defence.pk

We can also see how your rub down on China here

China USA Anchorage meeting descends into war of words

it means everything if that land is full of precious metals and rare minerals. That's not what people refer to when they say more land per capita.

defence.pk

You have been called out in the past. Older Chinese members know you're false flag.

 

[OIO]

I don't simply blame CCP for Xinjiang's problems. However, since CCP is the ruling party and has certainly made many mistakes in Xinjiang, it is fair for it to take the lion share of the blame.

However, there are still problems with "the overall situation in terms of direction". If you have paid close attention to the whole history of Xinjiang after CCP took over, you will notice that they had done what they are doing now. Why would it work this time while it didn't work the last time?

There are only two methods CCPs employ to deal with Uyghurs in Xinjiang: bribery and oppression, alternatively. Back in 80s, bribery. Now, oppression. Neither has worked but CCPs don't know better because those are all they can think of. That is why I said Xinjiang is stuck.

Your description of Xinjiang probably comes from reading Western materials.

 

[nang2]

Yet all religions are flourishing in China.

There's a big difference between a real Chinese and an Indian pretending to be Chinese. Your 60% pro-China, 40% troll China tactics can fool others but not me. You couldn't even read simple Chinese signboard Pakistani posted.

You didn't even know the meaning of a simple Chinese word, clearly your translation software failed.

The statement that says "all religions are flourishing in China" is laughable. Religions are always difficult to flourish without state backing, let alone with a state that is casting a suspicious and hostile eye on them. Remember, Marx said religions are opium of the people and you should know how Chinese feel about opium.

Your description of Xinjiang probably comes from reading Western materials.

Dude, I grew up there until I left for college. How much time have you spent there?

 

[nature is]

Your description of Xinjiang probably comes from reading Western materials.

He is Indian, older members have called him out before.

 

[nang2]

He is Indian, older members have called him out before. There's no point engaging him really.

If you are proud of speaking falsehood, go ahead. If you are proud of using feelings than reasons, go ahead. I only watch with amusement.

 

[nature is]

The statement that says "all religions are flourishing in China" is laughable. Religions are always difficult to flourish without state backing, let alone with a state that is casting a suspicious and hostile eye on them. Remember, Marx said religions are opium of the people and you should know how Chinese feel about opium.

Dude, I grew up there until I left for college. How much time have you spent there?

CPC is officially atheist, truly secular unlike your Indian govt. It doesn't promote any religion nor suppress religion unless they override govt authority. However, CPC support local community, spent tones of money renovating Tibetan monastery, building mosque in Xinjiang. all these can be easily googled. Communism with Chinese characteristic isn't the same as Marxism of 19th century. You relied on a simple quote to judge CPC? Hahaha, more evidence you're Indian.

You grew up in China? but doesn't understand simple Chinese word, need to be corrected by others? Quit lying, we know you're Indian.

Post 20, Post 21

Indians Known As Hindus When They Go Abroad: Mohan Bhagwat

I guess you must be weak at statistics , iirc there were a total of 1056 settlements were found 96 were excavated found Got this from the wiki mainly in the general region of the Sarasvati River and their tributaries. Among the settlements were the major urban centres of Harappa, Mohenjo-daro...

defence.pk

 

[Beast]

so tell me, who send warships and guns to conquer and humiliate you???


so yes, I prove my point again and again, the Commie Chinese have a problem with Islam. and many Pakistani muslims are blind to this.

Lol.. u are so concern of islam. Spare your crocodile tears. Fake Muslim.

CPC is officially atheist, truly secular unlike your Indian govt. It doesn't promote any religion nor suppress religion unless they override to the govt authority. Communism with Chinese characteristic isn't the same as Marxism. More evidence you are Indian.

You grew up in China? but doesn't understand simple Chinese word, LOL.

Indians Known As Hindus When They Go Abroad: Mohan Bhagwat

I guess you must be weak at statistics , iirc there were a total of 1056 settlements were found 96 were excavated found Got this from the wiki mainly in the general region of the Sarasvati River and their tributaries. Among the settlements were the major urban centres of Harappa, Mohenjo-daro...

defence.pk

Precisely, India amend the law that allow hindu followers to migrate freely into India. Wow! Special previlege for hindu? But not so lucky for christian or Muslim...

 

[nang2]

CPC is officially atheist, truly secular unlike your Indian govt. It doesn't promote any religion nor suppress religion unless they override to the govt authority. Communism with Chinese characteristic isn't the same as Marxism. More evidence you are Indian.

You grew up in China? but doesn't understand simple Chinese word, LOL.

You know nothing about CPC's religion policy. Under CCP's rule, all religious activities must be confined within the religious establishments, such as temple, church, etc. You cannot, or nearly impossible, invite someone to speak in public outsides of those establishments. It is nights and days comparing with any other secular governments. Most religious folks got around these restrictions by claiming they were practicing QiGong. But that guise was ruined after FaLunGong.

Their goal is to restrict religions so they won't be competitors in the game of "winning people's heart". Hope one day religions will just die out "naturally" in China. They cannot just eradicate religions like they attempted in 50s without causing violent resistance. So, they are just trying to wear them out.

Many local policemen are nice and understanding as long as religious practitioners don't act too ostensibly in public. But there is always fear among these practitioners.

It is very strange that you claim that I don't understand simple Chinese word. Where is your evidence? That is the reason why I said you are just a proud of speaking falsehood.

 

[nature is]

Lol.. u are so concern of islam. Spare your crocodile tears. Fake Muslim.

Precisely, India amend the law that allow hindu followers to migrate freely into India. Wow! Special previlege for hindu? But not so lucky for christian or Muslim...

Actually that thread is to show he doesn't read Chinese. Read post 20 and 21. He claimed he grew up in China, but doesn't understand simple Chinese word. There're many Indian posing as Chinese, they usually appear pro-China to convince people, but when topic calls for it, they'll start their nonsense.

Look up China-US meeting thread, you'll see more of his nonsense.

 

[nang2]

Actually that thread is to show he doesn't read Chinese. Read post 21. He claimed he grew up in China, but doesn't understand simple Chinese word. There're many Indian posing as Chinese, they usually appear pro-China to convince people, but when topic calls for it, they'll start their nonsense.

Look up China-US meeting thread, look how he put down China.

Wait. Are you talking about me? I didn't write post 21.

 

[Nan Yang]

Third, many ways to deal with chaos. Fundamentally, we want to reduce and even eliminate chaos. We certainly don't want to just sweep it under the rug, which will surely show up again sooner or later. That is why I don't think CCP's simple and rude method is constructive in the long run. They are simply attacking at the symptom but not at the cause. Xinjiang has been the fertile ground of chaos every since CCP took over. Many people outside of that region simply don't know much about it until it shows up on the newspapers. Unfortunately, CCPs don't understand the cause. So Xinjiang is stuck along with millions of people who still live there.

Not entirely true.

I have been following China's development for decades. It is often very difficult to determine China's intentions as they are very secretive. They usually do not announce any success until they have achieved some amount of good results. Perhaps the reason of the initial denial which the Western media now latches on and exaggerate.

Basically the big issue is extremism and radicalism. But the problem is that being radical and extreme does not mean you have broken any criminal law. Only when you start to stab and kill, then only you can be apprehended and detained. Here lies the problem. Can you afford to wait for that to happen ?

Remember if you let the problem incubate it will eventually become too big to solve.

 

[nang2]

Not entirely true.

I have been following China's development for decades. It is often very difficult to determine China's intentions as they are very secretive. They usually do not announce any success until they have achieved some amount of good results. Perhaps the reason of the initial denial which the Western media now latches on and exaggerate.

Basically the big issue is extremism and radicalism. But the problem is that being radical and extreme does not mean you have broken any criminal law. Only when you start to stab and kill, then only you can be apprehended and detained. Here lies the problem. Can you afford to wait for that to happen ?

Remember if you let the problem incubate it will eventually become too big to solve.

There is no question about Western media exaggerating everything negative in China. Therefore, usually I just ignore them. However, extremism and radicalism aren't something new. The history is filled with many cases of them, mostly around violent revolts. However, treating "pre-crime" as crime itself is problematic. Innocent people are easily caught in the process.

Of course, you don't want any discontent to find its release in extremism and radicalism and eventually burst out. That is why it is important to release it through some other channels. That is why I believe neither bribery nor oppression work. Bribery encourages unreasonable demands, which could lead to more discontent when demands are not met. Oppression pushes people straight to radicalism, which is fueled by negative sentiments.

But without understanding, it is very difficult to guide discontent through harmless channels. How could you expect atheists to understand religious believers, and vice versa? The only workable solution to begin with I can think of is to connect people on common grounds and leave the rest alone. But CCP isn't keen to the idea of "leaving things alone". They like to manage everything.

 

[Nan Yang]

You know nothing about CPC's religion policy. Under CCP's rule, all religious activities must be confined within the religious establishments, such as temple, church, etc. You cannot, or nearly impossible, invite someone to speak in public outsides of those establishments. It is nights and days comparing with any other secular governments. Most religious folks got around these restrictions by claiming they were practicing QiGong. But that guise was ruined after FaLunGong.

Their goal is to restrict religions so they won't be competitors in the game of "winning people's heart". Hope one day religions will just die out "naturally" in China. They cannot just eradicate religions like they attempted in 50s without causing violent resistance. So, they are just trying to wear them out.

Many local policemen are nice and understanding as long as religious practitioners don't act too ostensibly in public. But there is always fear among these practitioners.

It is very strange that you claim that I don't understand simple Chinese word. Where is your evidence? That is the reason why I said you are just a proud of speaking falsehood.

This actually make sense. You cannot afford to have a portion of your population pledging loyalty to some lunatic religious leader who one day may become powerful and order its followers to go against the government.

This is exactly what happened in Malaysia.

Back in the 80s in Malaysia, there was such a religious group call Al-Arqam. Their membership grew to about 200,000. The surprising part was they consisted of many educated Malays including engineers in the company where I worked. In fact they could set successful business and even factories even without government assistance.

The production supervisor reporting to me was also one of them. He wear a turban and long green robes to work. I remember he complained to me that the dance routine by an external dance group during our Annual Dinner and Dance was immoral.

Well in the 80s they became aggressive and went against the government. And Al Arqam is now history.

Al-Arqam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Quote"
Challenges to the state[edit]
In 1986, the religious authorities was alarmed by Ashaari's book Aurad which claimed that Prophet Muhammad and the four caliphs not only could be met in a dream but also could be confronted physically and consciously in the real world.[17] The government's Islamic Developmental Department (Jakim) argued that some facts and arguments were misleading and could jeopardise the beliefs of the Malaysian Muslims.[17] The National Fatwa Committee proscribed the book in 1998.[18] The ban turned into a political controversy when Ashaari refused to abide by it and challenged the decision.[17]