A Foreign Minister In Uniform Gen Raheel Shareef

[Folkindia]

When an indian cannot validate his claims, he resorts to personal attacks, as the physical ones never work out. Like an indian can be trusted to be objective.

Ps. Born in the UK, relocated to the US, hence the flag.

reading the events with some objectivity would help... There are quite a few threads on kargil with objective inputs from highly respected members on he forum as well as ex military personnel from both side. Reading objectively and sounding a little less retarded might help your cause.

btw if you are ashamed to show allegiance to your real flag, it is a big dis-service to it. Quite a few people laid down thier lives for their respective flags.

To reiterate, military success, translated into a political defeat. Hence, why some attribute it to a loss. @Hiptullha

 

[MilSpec]

When an indian cannot validate his claims, he resorts to personal attacks, as the physical ones never worked out. Like an indian can be trusted to be objective.

Ps. Born in the UK, relocated to US, hence the flag.

Flags of allegiance are your personal choice.

About your kargil claims, there is not much to validate, I have been here for years and banged my head against such dimwitted rhetoric time and again. There are ample threads to refute you claims , pick one and go at it.

Now about personal attack, I never made any, I did call your argument retarded, and in the last sentence dimwitted, and just so we are on the same page, I am being objective....

Right hand corner has search with username filter try any respectable member and keyword kargil, you will find narratives, rhetorics, analysis and references . If you still arrive to the same argument, then this conversation was waste of both of our time.

 

[Musafir117]

Ladies and Gentlemen I present you another 'foreign minister' of the United States

You just defending Nawaz Shareef government and entire corrupt politicians, USA have a strong democracy and solid foreign policy with proper secretary to handle the affairs, these generals sometime do visit by theme-self to meet their NATO individuals or the country they are engaging in war but almost with a delegation under Secretary of State.
Anyway what my point is that NS not doing his job as FM, he visiting around with all his family for business, and COAS doing it coz he know depend on NS is just waste of time and harm for country.

 

[Folkindia]

I'm supposed to take the narrative of a few indians/ex-indian military professionals and some sell out Pakistani members, who cannot differentiate between a military a success and a political defeat. Fact remains, india's regular army of around 700k, were engaging with a negligible number of NLI and some one thousand mujahideen fighters. Therefore, Pakistan was restricted to what it could use in terms of i.e Air Force. The regular army did not engage, so the Air Force did not come into play, nor did heavy equipment, unlike their counterparts.

Two indian fighter jets, violated the air space and were brought down. Pakistan still occupies some of those peaks, i remember india running out of wood to burn their army. Calling upon South Africa to deliver 155mm howitzer shells, "litening pods" from israel (containing an infra-red camera, for night attacks) in an emergency. Had it not been for Nawaz Sharif's political- cynical- fiasco, it would have been a black year for india.

Ps. India gave out a medal to honour a 'dead soldier' (desperate face saving attempt) who was found to be alive. Why should anyone believe what indians say, just look at the recent 'terror boat' debacle. They have no credibility and lack the key capacities for critical thinking, analysis and being impartial.

Flags of allegiance are your personal choice.

About your kargil claims, there is not much to validate, I have been here for years and banged my head against such dimwitted rhetoric time and again. There are ample threads to refute you claims , pick one and go at it.

Now about personal attack, I never made any, I did call your argument retarded, and in the last sentence dimwitted, and just so we are on the same page, I am being objective....

Right hand corner has search with username filter try any respectable member and keyword kargil, you will find narratives, rhetorics, analysis and references . If you still arrive to the same argument, then this conversation was waste of both of our time.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Just a question for you........in pakistan; where is Foreign Policy (the most crucial aspects of it and wrt India, Afghanistan and such neighbors) decided..... in Rawalpindi or Islamabad?
The answer to that question will help you to understand the significance of the OP.

It is decided by the people competent enough to devise it at a place suitable enough.

 

[MilSpec]

I'm supposed to take the narrative of a few indians/ex-indian military professionals and some sell out Pakistani members, who cannot differentiate between a military a success and a political defeat. Fact remains, india's regular army of around 700k, were engaging with a negligible number of NLI and some one thousand mujahideen fighters. Therefore, Pakistan was restricted to what it could use in terms of i.e Air Force. The regular army did not engage, so the Air Force did not come into play, nor did heavy equipment, unlike their counterparts.

Two indian fighter jets, violated the air space and were brought down. Pakistan still occupies some of those peaks, i remember india running out of wood to burn their army. Calling upon South Africa to deliver 155mm howitzer shells, lightning pods from israel (containing an infra red camera, for night attacks) in an emergency. Had it not been for Nawaz Sharif's political- cynical- fiasco, it would have been a black year for india.

Ps. India gave out a medal to honour a 'dead soldier' who was found to be alive. Why should anyone believe what indians say, just look at the recent 'terror boat' debacle. They have no credibility and lack the key capacities for critical thinking, analysis and being impartial.

 

[Folkindia]

Exactly as i thought, an 'impartial' indian who cannot validate his claims. Resorted to personal attacks in frustration and now has nothing to offer by way of successfully refuting my argument. Good day.

 

[MilSpec]

Exactly as i thought, an 'impartial' indian who cannot validate his claims. Resorted to personal attacks in frustration and now has nothing to offer by way of successfully refuting my argument. Good day.

What is there to refute, you are already are an all knowing expert who has the over bearing baggage of declaring all Indians incapable of objectivity and respected pakistani members on the forum as sell outs if they present any opinion that differs from you. Now I am not the almighty to change your mind, so whats the point in any discourse.

As far as kargil is concerned, All your fancy jets and tanks stood frozen when your Brave (I repeat Brave) soldiers were being blown to smithereens by IAF jets and IA arty, if you can take solace in such victories then sure. you are more than welcome to celebrate such victories. I wish you many more

The only victory from kargil came to Musharraf, and only defeat to the pakistan's democracy. other than that not much to say. most of it is out there.

 

[saadee]

The government of Pakistan is 'inept' in every sense of the word. Each tenure of a new leader is marked by much corruption and is mired in acute-nepotism. The army is the only facet of Pakistan, that is free of this ignominy and wholeheartedly serves it's nation. Salute the army and stand behind it. Otherwise, this 'merry-go-round' between the PPP and PML-N leaves a lot to be desired and then some. Next leader of Pakistan should be Imran Khan, the current one is hell-bent on 'veering' off the path of development and growth.

Agreed.

 

[Hiptullha]

To reiterate, military success, translated into a political defeat. Hence, why some attribute it to a loss

Failing to take into account the international response which eventually forced us to end the war is another blunder by Musharraf.

 

[tarrar]

And during army rule we also faced the Islamization of Pakistan and the start of the Bengali independence movement. What's your point? That economic growth trumps everything else?

I honestly don't know about development in Musharraf's time, but let me tell you one thing. Pakistan's global image during his time was deeply humiliating. He was responsible for our blunder in Kargil and sold us out to the Yanks. His role in the judiciary crisis and the Lal Masjid Raid didn't improve our image. Many people here applaud him for doing what he did, but to be honest, I felt disgusted hearing about those two incidents. We all want Pakistan to be the next South Korea or Japan or Singapore, but Musharraf made us look like Egypt or Syria,

Gen. Musharraf was the best & Pakistan was on track towards a good future, Pakistan image was never humiliated I know that because I have seen it for my self here in Mid East.

What he did with Judiciary & Lal Masjid time has proven him 100% right & today you all can see the real faces of these bastards. Kargil war, a military victory turned into political defeat, this is all what I will say about Kargil & Nawaz Sharif is directly responsible for this defeat as he had surrendered in front of US & I remember that very well. Also Nawaz is not responsible for Nuclear test, it was the pressure from the military which lead to the Nuclear test where as Shahbaz was busy negotiating dollar packages & F16 deals with US. Gen. Musharraf did not Pakistan Egypt or any other country it is this corrupt, incompetent & failed DEMOCRAZY which is pushing Pakistan towards complete chaos & anarchy, you all can see this happening.

 

[Danish saleem]

Undoubtedly.... the "imported mulla" and "king khan" helped to clip Nawaz's wing; however incompetent he may be otherwise. This is the best way to set-up an 'invisible coup'.

brother,

what i saw in past history, all are incompetent including Politicians, its very easy to criticize a Politician, but incompetency witnessed every were.

Osama's drams is the best example how competent we are.

 

[Edevelop]

brother,

what i saw in past history, all are incompetent including Politicians, its very easy to criticize a Politician, but incompetency witnessed every were.

Osama's drams is the best example how competent we are.

Yet no General was held accountable or had the realization to resign.

 

[Danish saleem]

Yet no General was held accountable or had the realization to resign.

and when some one thinks that they are like angels, and they are not accountable then same thing happens.

When Chinese President gone to visit Pakistan, then we stopped his visit via our monkeys, and we are weeping that why obama not visiting Pakistan.

 

[WishLivePak]

It is decided by the people competent enough to devise it at a place suitable enough.

He was asking me, not you

Mind your own business, question stealer.

Yet no General was held accountable or had the realization to resign.

And many want such generals to run country until they themselves get tired of them after 8 years and beg the courts or elect a corrupt official just for the sake of removing the military men. That much they despise them, a corrupt over a military man.