A 'European Army' That No European Will Join

[Mage]

Consider this a pre-warning! Grow up and write something or leave the thread...

I'm sorry but his posts deserves this kind of response. @Vergennes

 

[Nein]

Tom Clancy's Endwar is going to be a reality!!!

 

[jhungary]

The role for EU army would not be used to invade against some foreign shithole. The function of the purposed EU Army is for European (mostly EU) to band together and access to the same resources, so they can share their defence duty.

On paper, this is good, but in reality, nobody want to contribute troop to defend some far away EU member. I mean if you go to UK, you probably see people who don't like Romanian moving in next to them, let alone sending British Troop to defend Romania (I know Britain is getting out of EU).

The current scheme for EU Battlegroup is the best in both world, where you have a Quick Reaction Force that can deploy in your local region, but that does not do much in both world, you don't share enough responsibility for defence on one hand, and on the other, its uses are quite limited. Those are just for buying time for the American come to rescue in case of the big bad Russian wolf decided to roll all over Europe.

In short, EU Army is a good concept, if we can all sit together and sing Kumbaya. Otherwise it is just a pipe dream.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

American propaganda. More than 99% of countries in this world are ethnic based having official language. America is one of very few countries that is not ethnic based having official language. Also, these stats are fake.

 

[Desert Fox]

The problem of Europe is not a lack of volunteers. 20% of 500 million is still 125 million. More than enough. The problem is that the vast majority of modern European elite is grown by Americans to serve the American interests. That is, the Europeans will have to fight not only with the American external influence, but with the comprador elites.
The occupation of Europe is lasting for 73 years. Several generations of Europeans grew up under American occupation.

True. No way current EU occupational regimes will send the Americans packing home. They are on Uncle Sam's life support and there is extreme resentment within the native populations against EU leaders. Without America EU cannot survive because the regimes composing it were installed by Uncle Sam.

As soon as Uncle Sam leaves these regimes will face popular insurrections, terrorism and other forms of internal instability, aside from the fact that they will have to increase their own defense budget at the expense of economy and social benefits of their citizenry.

 

[Nilgiri]

So recently the leaders of France and Germany are threatening to form a "European Army" to confront Russia, America & China whom they have described as threats to European "sovereignty" (LOL), in response to Trump's suggestions that Nato's European member countries contribute their fair share of the alliances' defense budget rather than piggy-back on Uncle Sam.

There is a whole back-and-forth to this developing situation, and that's not the focus of this thread.

The focus of this thread is a series of questions which European leaders who, out of their hallucinations, particularly the ones threatening to ditch Uncle Sam and form their own "European Army" against the "threat" posed by Russia, China and (lo and behold) their current ally and benefactor America, seem to have looked over.


1) Who will fight in this army? Not Europeans

Your immediate response will be 'well, Europeans, duhh?!?!" Because who else, right?

Well more than half of Europeans, which is an overwhelming majority, don't want to fight for their countries

View attachment 519138
Source: Western Europeans Unwilling To Fight
For Their Country​

But why is that? For one, the governments of these countries in no way share the sentiments of their people. In fact, these governments have actively worked towards the destruction of their constituency by forcing policies of social engineering on them that undermine the social fabric of these societies, and then works to suppress any opposing opinions. This naturally creates resentment.

Why would one sacrifice their creature comforts for a country who's government no longer represents the ideals for which his forefathers once fought and died and actually seeks to eradicate his people?

So to solve this problem, European leaders have come up with an amazing solution; import millions of illiterate Africans and other foreign men in the guise of "refugees", entice them with free iPhones and prostitutes and old Feminist hags. But will this solution work? Because clearly millions of men from predominantly Muslim regions of the world will fight and die for feminists, faggots and other forms of hedonism, right?

View attachment 519143
Source
When the 'old Europeans' malfunction, you simply get new ones. Who would've
thought it was that easy! But will they fight & die for the Globo-Homo agenda?
Remains to be seen​

2) Who will fund this Army?

Nato is a massive military alliance. As of currently Uncle Sam has been picking up a significant portion of the tab for its allies, besides maintaining its own massive military presence and the sophisticated hardware, some of which even EU countries do not produce.

If European countries withdraw from Nato to form their own alliance for sure they will need to fill-in the void left by the Americans in terms of increase in man-power (training and deployment costs) as well as hardware and the R&D involved in. But are they willing to contribute an increased percentage of their GDP towards this end?

To answer that question lets see how Angela Merkel's Germany, which is currently the economic powerhouse of the EU (or so they say), is doing in terms of funding the Bundeswehr:

View attachment 519144
Source
Are those broomsticks supposed to fly? If this is despite
American funding, imagine what it will be like when the Yanks
pull the plug? LOL​

As of now i'm calling these people's bluff. These European leaders do not possess the cajones to walk their talk, unless it comes to punishing their own population of course.

@Nilgiri @Hamartia Antidote @F-22Raptor @LeGenD @Psychic

The one that really surprises me is Japan at 10%....they are very nationalist people (esp compared to Europe), so what gives? Maybe there was a misunderstanding of the question or something...or I suspect they want outsiders to believe something else.

True. No way current EU occupational regimes will send the Americans packing home. They are on Uncle Sam's life support and there is extreme resentment within the native populations against EU leaders. Without America EU cannot survive because the regimes composing it were installed by Uncle Sam.

As soon as Uncle Sam leaves these regimes will face popular insurrections, terrorism and other forms of internal instability, aside from the fact that they will have to increase their own defense budget at the expense of economy and social benefits of their citizenry.

So true! Suddenly all the socialist crap will have to stop. Trump is killing quite a lot of birds with the same stone lol.

 

[Desert Fox]

So true! Suddenly all the socialist crap will have to stop.

Can't wait till that happens. Then the lefty morons will no longer have an example to point to and finay realize that you cant have feel-good Socialism when you have to literally fight for your survival.

The one that really surprises me is Japan at 10%....they are very nationalist people (esp compared to Europe), so what gives? Maybe there was a misunderstanding of the question or something...or I suspect they want outsiders to believe something else.

Honestly, I think it's the material comfort coupled with nihilism and atheism or the lack of a proper spiritual and warrior world view.

Japan today is very Liberal compared to Imperial Japan.

Trump is killing quite a lot of birds with the same stone lol.

True. He's a master strategist. It's no wonder he got 5 billion dollars worth of free media coverage during the 2016 election season without even breaking a sweat.

 

[Nilgiri]

Honestly, I think it's the material comfort coupled with nihilism and atheism or the lack of a proper spiritual and warrior world view.

Japan today is very Liberal compared to Imperial Japan.

This is true....I guess its the older generation in Japan that are still guiding the foreign policy (and staunch anti-immigrant policy)....but middle and young generation have been contorted and liberalised in all the worst areas.

 

[Desert Fox]

This is true....I guess its the older generation in Japan that are still guiding the foreign policy (and staunch anti-immigrant policy)....but middle and young generation have been contorted and liberalised in all the worst areas.

Yeah it's crazy how the younger generations dont get married and prefer virtual girlfriends/boyfriends to actual relationships, like damn.

Btw I know we had a Japanese member on this forum, went by the name of Nihonjin. Whatever happened to that dude?

 

[Nilgiri]

Yeah it's crazy how the younger generations dont get married and prefer virtual girlfriends/boyfriends to actual relationships, like damn.

Btw I know we had a Japanese member on this forum, went by the name of Nihonjin. Whatever happened to that dude?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what-became-of-nihonjin.489130/

I only ever had good interaction with him, but it was limited. Lot of Chinese said he was secretly Indonesian etc etc...lot of non-Chinese said he was secretly Chinese....and he didn't exactly help by apparently dabbling in psy-ops/multiple accounting regarding all that it seems.

 

[Desert Fox]

I only ever had good interaction with him, but it was limited.

Yeah man same here. His posts were constructive and I never saw him violate forum rules

Lot of Chinese said he was secretly Indonesian etc etc...lot of non-Chinese said he was secretly Chinese....and he didn't exactly help by apparently dabbling in psy-ops/multiple accounting regarding all that it seems.

Lol really? Based on what did they assume he was Indonesian or Chinese?

Didnt know he had sock accounts lol, that's cool though, dude was a little to rule abiding from my observation.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what-became-of-nihonjin.489130/

Good to know I'm not the only who remembers him.

@Nilgiri just checked out the thread you linked

Lol, so he left because he got caught with sock accounts? there's people on this forum who have done far worse than that and still came back multiple times and many are still here. Let's hope he didnt commit seppuku out of sense of shame

 

[Cybernetics]

The one that really surprises me is Japan at 10%....they are very nationalist people (esp compared to Europe), so what gives? Maybe there was a misunderstanding of the question or something...or I suspect they want outsiders to believe something else.

Nationalism doesn't equate willingness to "fight for your country". Fighting for your country also means different things to different cultures under different circumstances. Japan has a pacifist culture as a result of post war conditioning. If you ask people in Japan if they want to fight for their country, they will not prefer to physically fight and will likely answer "no" but that doesn't mean if there was a war that it would be impossible to mobilize a large population. Those reluctant can still be mobilized and they will still fulfill their role.

My understanding of a portion of Japan's nationalism goes like this: Japanese lead engineer follows through on an overseas project with a foreign customer. The contract was not given to his firm due to design flaws that he was responsible/partially responsible for that caused the loss of contract. He will feel great shame not because of any material damage to his career but that he is thinking about lost jobs (loss of vital contract means downsizing) for the many small to mediums sized upstream suppliers back home in Japan feeding his conglomerate which acts as a marketing platform for them. Its a feeling of failure to feed your family, that your actions starved some of your children to death.

The concept of society is different. You are not just responsible for your own career but also careers of the workers in your society. This sense of responsibility varies by people and their position in society but this is more prevalent in Japan for certain positions, especially in manufacturing. On average other industries might not have such a strong sense of responsibility.

 

[Nilgiri]

Nationalism doesn't equate willingness to "fight for your country". Fighting for your country also means different things to different cultures under different circumstances. Japan has a pacifist culture as a result of post war conditioning. If you ask people in Japan if they want to fight for their country, they will not prefer to physically fight and will likely answer "no" but that doesn't mean if there was a war that it would be impossible to mobilize a large population. Those reluctant can still be mobilized and they will still fulfill their role.

My understanding of a portion of Japan's nationalism goes like this: Japanese lead engineer follows through on an overseas project with a foreign customer. The contract was not given to his firm due to design flaws that he was responsible/partially responsible for that caused the loss of contract. He will feel great shame not because of any material damage to his career but that he is thinking about lost jobs (loss of vital contract means downsizing) for the many small to mediums sized upstream suppliers back home in Japan feeding his conglomerate which acts as a marketing platform for them. Its a feeling of failure to feed your family, that your actions starved some of your children to death.

The concept of society is different. You are not just responsible for your own career but also careers of the workers in your society. This sense of responsibility varies by people and their position in society but this is more prevalent in Japan for certain positions, especially in manufacturing. On average other industries might not have such a strong sense of responsibility.

Thanks, that definitely clears things up and makes sense with my observations when I was visiting Japan too.

 

[waz]

Yeah it's crazy how the younger generations dont get married and prefer virtual girlfriends/boyfriends to actual relationships, like damn.

Btw I know we had a Japanese member on this forum, went by the name of Nihonjin. Whatever happened to that dude?

He was a fake, someone from South East Asia. We’ve only ever had two Japanese posters, one had good English the other could barely communicate.

 

[313ghazi]

An EU army could work if the EU decides it doesn't want to behave like a colonial power. Stop pushing east, stop acting as an agent of US foreign policy towards Russia, stop getting involved in conflicts abroad. If you focus your defence on keep your borders safe and having a credible deterence against attack by a major world power, then it will work.

Of course, you will have to ensure that the troops stationed in each member state are it's own nationals, not foreign nationals, and each member state would have to sign up to a mutual defence pact. I would have a clause in the act - the obligation to participate in a war, should only exist if the war is not started by a participating nation. This allows EU nations to ensure they're not dragged into wars started by right wing nutjobs who might get elected and want to hijack the EU army.

Also I think defence budgets of all participating forces should be split 50:50. 50% towards an EU wide force, and 50% towards a national force, each of who are integrated into the EU force. This way nobody is entirely risking soverignty too.

The bigger issue for the EU is wealth distribution. As the elite take more and more wealth out of society, the middle classes are squeezed, poverty is on the up, the right wing use immigrants as a bogey man and get elected into power pulling the EU apart bit by bit (like Brexit). The EU should consider a wealth tax, and use that tax to increase the economic conditions of the poorest in society, especially the poorer countries in the EU, so limit the economic migration.



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Why so few Japanese are willing to fight for Japan?

They did have pacifism enforced on them post WW2 so it's probably now drilled into their society.