A different story emerges from Pakistan

[Bill Longley]

I don't believe in the double game theory, rather I believe that the Americans just can't consolidate their position in Kunnar, which is a Taliban stronghold.

with so much fire power i think its wrong to belive they simply failed. I dont belive so. they intensionally are allowing taliban so that we suffer

 

[Omar1984]

This is a reality which no one understands from the American, NATO side or may be they know it but are keeping their eyes shut, which i believe is the case as they don't want to win in Afghanistan.

Its not just Bajaur, all across the border, Taliban move freely without any hindrance from the forces sitting across the border. They have surveillance equipment of the highest quality, satellites, attack helicopters, precision guided munitions, special forces equipped with whatever they want, so how hard it would be for the NATO forces to identify their crossing points, monitor them and whatever moves through them, attack it with their assets.

Even if they go from this side of the border, they are accommodated on that side of the border somewhere in Afghanistan, why not NATO identify those places and attack it and destroy it. Why not land SF guys on the routes they travel and ambush their parties which are trying to cross the border.

As said before, the will of NATO is not to win, they are here for some other purpose or have been brought for some other purpose.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ina-game-former-naval-chief-speaks-truth.html


Obviously its not in Pakistan's national or strategic interest to participate in America's "great" game.

 

[Icarus]

with so much fire power i think its wrong to belive they simply failed. I dont belive so. they intensionally are allowing taliban so that we suffer

This is not a conventional war, firepower and numbers are not assets, they are liabilities. The more numbers you have, the greater the casualties, the more firepower you have, greater is the chance of civilian casualties. The Americans have a really bad understanding of this concept, that is why they fail.

 

[Bill Longley]

This is not a conventional war, firepower and numbers are not assets, they are liabilities. The more numbers you have, the greater the casualties, the more firepower you have, greater is the chance of civilian casualties. The Americans have a really bad understanding of this concept, that is why they fail.

read The Long War Journal and you will know the capabilities of Americans. they are gods of war and i dont belive they can chicken out of kunar and nouristan because they are aaaaaaaaaafraid of mighty Takfiri Taliban fighting in Pakistan

 

[Icarus]

read The Long War Journal and you will know the capabilities of Americans. they are gods of war and i dont belive they can chicken out of kunar and nouristan because they are aaaaaaaaaafraid of mighty Takfiri Taliban fighting in Pakistan

Americans don't do the fighting unless attacked, it's the Afghans that do the fighting and with a desertion rate of 1 for every 4 soldiers, you can guess why they cannot maintain control.

 

[Omar1984]

with so much fire power i think its wrong to belive they simply failed. I dont belive so. they intensionally are allowing taliban so that we suffer

Listen to what an American says about Obama's plans for Pakistan:

 

[Chogy]

When the entire world screams bloody murder when an innocent is killed, and the Taliban do a happy-dance because they love the media in this case, all the firepower in the world means little.

We have the firepower; it's wrapped up in B-52's, B-2's, Fighters, heavy artillery, M1-A1 tanks, etc. Can't use them.

Same deal when you cannot tell the wickedest Taliban apart from a peaceful farmer. Under traditional rules of war, combatants captured out of uniform are shot or hung as commandos, saboteurs or spies. Reference WW2.

The only hope is a large number of boots in the disputed areas, and total disarmament of a traditionally weapons-heavy population. ROE that allows shooting on sight of a non-uniformed individual carrying a weapon. On BOTH sides of the border. I'm not hopeful.

 

[CENTCOM]

Dear TaimiKhan,

Impatience is understandable, but we should realize the complexity and severity of this war. Al-Qaeda and its counterparts have openly claimed responsibility for 9/11, which took thousands of innocent lives. The US currently deploys thousands of troops along with its NATO allies in the Afghanistan region to fight terrorism. These are the same terrorists who wreck havoc across the border in Pakistan by targeting civilians and government officials in their attempt to destabilize the nation. Would not you agree that there network lies deep on both sides of the border? The US and its NATO allies have made great progress towards eliminating terrorism and keeping the US, Afghanistan and Pakistan safe. You have said, “This is a reality which no one understands from the American, NATO side or maybe they know it but are keeping their eyes shut, which I believe is the case as they don't want to win in Afghanistan” Have you not opened your eyes to our recent progress? Recently, Special Operating Forces conducted 260 operations that took 22 leaders and 380 lower level fighters off the battlefield the week of Oct. 18-24.. In the past 90 days, these forces have conducted more than 1500 operations, eliminating 339 insurgent leaders and nearly 1000 fighters, capturing another 2400 fighters. While it is true that in the past year, we have repositioned forces in Afghanistan to focus more on population centers than remote outposts, but this is a necessary component of counterinsurgency strategy, and applies to Pakistan’s struggle as well. But we have not ignored those areas closer to the border, as has been suggested. You can find more information about our operations in the border provinces, here, here, here, and here. Do you still believe the US is keeping its eyes shut? The strategic alliance between Pakistan, Afghanistan and ISAF was formed to take away insurgents any breathing room and to tackle terrorism from all ends. The complexities of war are not often understood by everyone and Taliban surely disguise themselves among civilians.

Do we present evidence of our progress? Progress against inhumane acts of terror against the innocent and honorable civilians. One must say that desperation is evident in their actions. The US does not condone terrorism and continues to implement new strategies to overcome the challenges and complexities in the AFPAK region. To suggest that the Taliban are roaming freely is inaccurate. The US is still at war and continues to tighten its grip around the terrorists. And make no mistake, as our president has made clear, we do intend to win, and turn over a more stable and secure environment to Afghanistan’s security forces, as we have no desire to keep our forces on Afghan soil any longer than is necessary to accomplish that mission.

LCDR, Bill Speaks

DET, United Sates Central Command

www.centcom.mil

 

[somebozo]

recently the source has shifted to yemen..anti america sentiments are wide spread and america clearly is engaged in war against muslims!

 

[Chogy]

recently the source has shifted to yemen..anti america sentiments are wide spread and america clearly is engaged in war against muslims!

A bit of a sweeping generalization there?

Are the 3,000,000 to 6,000,000 Muslims in the U.S. being herded into camps or deported somewhere? Or are they building mosques and living their lives in peace?

Hmm, how about stop sending bombs through the mail?

 

[VCheng]

A bit of a sweeping generalization there?

Are the 3,000,000 to 6,000,000 Muslims in the U.S. being herded into camps or deported somewhere? Or are they building mosques and living their lives in peace?

Hmm, how about stop sending bombs through the mail?

People who have no first hand experience of living in modern US society, imperfect as it is I admit, have no idea what they are talking about.

I will paraphrase an old sub-continental idiom here:

"Andha kiya jaaney basant ki bahaar"
(The blind cannot see the beauty of spring.)

 

[Vassnti]

So which do the Americans do.

1 Close Patrol of the border, bases up against the fence so to speak. Flights over the border area to control movment of the Taliban?

2 Stay out of our air space , move your posts back, no hot pursuit.

You cant expect the US to control the border when they persue Taliban and get fired on by Pakistan for violating the border.

 

[TaimiKhan]

So which do the Americans do.

1 Close Patrol of the border, bases up against the fence so to speak. Flights over the border area to control movment of the Taliban?

2 Stay out of our air space , move your posts back, no hot pursuit.

You cant expect the US to control the border when they persue Taliban and get fired on by Pakistan for violating the border.

Why are you bringing in hot pursuit and crossing the border thingy ??

Taliban are on foot, not on trains, vehicles or C-130s that they in no time cross over the border. I do hope you can judge how much time it takes to travel in hilly terrain. So, had the US/NATO wanted to hunt down these Taliban in reality, they can very easily do that within Afghanistan. If a predator can target militants on this side of the border, can't it be used to identify their crossing routes ?? Safe heavens inside Afghanistan ?? Lay down ambushes, fire hellfire missiles at retreating Taliban parties. How much US/NATO or even Afghan troops are securing the border opposite NW ?? Can't they deploy a few more to have a vigilant eye on the border and stop what's crossing, if not 100%, 50% may work wonders.

What we have deployed in the tribal area on our side, is much more what the US has deployed in the whole of Afghanistan, even much less then what they deployed in Iraq, so that speaks volumes about the real intention of the NATO & US, they are not serious for Afghanistan.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Dear TaimiKhan,

Impatience is understandable, but we should realize the complexity and severity of this war. Al-Qaeda and its counterparts have openly claimed responsibility for 9/11, which took thousands of innocent lives.

Well I am not sure which AQ counterparts are you talking about, if you mean taliban, sorry i don't agree that they were involved in 9/11, i have my own reasons and sources to believe on that notion, but yeah agree they were giving refuge to AQ in their area, so it may involve them too, but yet again, Taliban did offer OBL for an international trial at any neutral Muslim country, which to surprise the US rejected, especially since US had & has so much overwhelming evidence, it should have gone or should have tried this path instead of going to war within 3 weeks of 9/11 and as for AQ, i agree it should be hunted down across the world and killed the moment anyone of them is caught.

The US currently deploys thousands of troops along with its NATO allies in the Afghanistan region to fight terrorism. These are the same terrorists who wreck havoc across the border in Pakistan by targeting civilians and government officials in their attempt to destabilize the nation. Would not you agree that there network lies deep on both sides of the border?

Thousands of troops, but the figure is not enough. If you guys can deploy 500K+ for capturing oil of Iraq, then atleast you guys can do somewhat better then the 120K or so figure in Afghanistan, especially since Afghanistan being hilly and difficult terrain compared to the plains of Iraq.

Thanks for agreeing that their network lies on both sides, otherwise whichever US politician or Mike Mullen have come, they have blamed us without accepting the infrastructure on that side of the border.

Some of the militants may be crossing this side of the border, but you and me know well, they have a refuge on the Afghan side of the border too, where they make IEDs, they get explosives, weapons and ammo, vehicles for making IEDs out of them, etc etc. Are drone strikes being done in Afghanistan on them or other targeted attacks ?? if so, why don't we see less activity of Taliban in Afghanistan ?? Why US casualties are not being lowered.

The US and its NATO allies have made great progress towards eliminating terrorism and keeping the US, Afghanistan and Pakistan safe. You have said, “This is a reality which no one understands from the American, NATO side or maybe they know it but are keeping their eyes shut, which I believe is the case as they don't want to win in Afghanistan” Have you not opened your eyes to our recent progress? Recently, Special Operating Forces conducted 260 operations that took 22 leaders and 380 lower level fighters off the battlefield the week of Oct. 18-24.. In the past 90 days, these forces have conducted more than 1500 operations, eliminating 339 insurgent leaders and nearly 1000 fighters, capturing another 2400 fighters.

Wow, the figures are impressive. 339+1000+2400=3739 taliban losses. So, now shouldn't the Taliban be finished in Afghanistan, becoz what we used to hear, Taliban have an active strength of 2000-2500 in Afghanistan from western sources. If not finished, atleast the US casualties should have been reduced, but we see the opposite, or may be the taliban are much more in numbers and strength then western sources may have predicted. I hope you are not counting in civilian losses.

I, would be touching rest of your points the last 2 paras, the moment i get free from office work

 

[seekers]

Well I am not sure which AQ counterparts are you talking about, if you mean taliban, sorry i don't agree that they were involved in 9/11, i have my own reasons and sources to believe on that notion, but yeah agree they were giving refuge to AQ in their area, so it may involve them too, but yet again, Taliban did offer OBL for an international trial at any neutral Muslim country, which to surprise the US rejected, especially since US had & has so much overwhelming evidence, it should have gone or should have tried this path instead of going to war within 3 weeks of 9/11 and as for AQ, i agree it should be hunted down across the world and killed the moment anyone of them is caught.

I don't agree with your theory that Taliban had made any such offer to US. But one event is on record that Mullah omer had flatly refused to Interior Minister Moin ud din Haider to handover Lashkar jhangvi main culprit Riaz basra (who was enjoying Taliban's asylum after fled from jail).Even this man was given a death sentence by Supreme court for murder of Iranian Ambassador and many Shia persons in Pakistan.

Please don't expect any honor of words and principles from Taliban. This is the mullah who said that " we wouldn't quit Kabul","we wouldn't quit Kandhar" . But fled in 4*4s cruisers and leave the poor Pakistani jihadi and civilians for carpet bombing.
Sorry to say but i think Pakistani are living in Fool's paradise who still finding some "Good Taliban" from them.