85 of Pakistanis said they would support a law segregating men and women

[EgO Boy]

Segregation!

Tauba, tauba.

I think they interviewed men from Pakhtunwa only.

Mr T-Faz this might refresh ur thinking


Islam prohibits free-mixing between men and women. It is argued that direct references for this prohibition can not be found in either the Qur'an or the Sunnah of the Prophet; but this can not mean that such conduct is permissible in Islam. As a complete way of life, Islam has not failed to address the matter. Various scholars of Islam have formulated their opinions on this matter and acknowledged the practice of free-mixing as a crime punishable under Shari'ah laws. All of the Jurists have sourced their views from the Qur’an and the Sunnah of the prophet, using these as the basis of their argument.

[edit] The Qur’an
First we can examine the Qur'an verse that indicates that free-mixing and socialization between the sexes is prohibited:

O you who believe! Enter not the Prophet's houses, except when leave is given to you for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation. But when you are invited, enter, and when you have taken your meal, disperse, without sitting for a talk. Verily, such (behavior) annoys the Prophet, and he is shy of (asking) you (to go), but Allah is not shy of (telling you) the truth. And when you ask (his wives) for anything you want, ask them from behind a screen, that is purer for your hearts and for their hearts. And it is not (right) for you that you should annoy Allah’s Messenger, nor that you should ever marry his wives after him (his death). Verily! With Allah that shall be an enormity.

Qur'an 33:53
From the above Ayat (verse), we see that Allah is has forbidden that the believing men should mingle with the prophet’s wives. A screen or veil should be placed there in between the men and prophet’s wives while conversing with them. Hadiths in this regard attest to the prohibition of free-mingling or mixing of men and women:

[edit] Hadiths
Narrated Ibn Abbas: That he heard the Prophet saying, "It is not permissible for a man to be alone with a woman, and no lady should travel except with a Muhram (i.e. her husband or a person whom she cannot marry in any case for ever; e.g. her father, brother, etc.)." Then a man got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have enlisted in the army for such-and-such Ghazwa and my wife is proceeding for Hajj." Allah's Apostle said, "Go, and perform the Hajj with your wife."

Sahih Bukhari 4:52:250
Narrated Qaza'a, the slave of Ziyad: Abu Said who participated in twelve Ghazawat with the Prophet said, "I heard four things from Allah's Apostle (or I narrate them from the Prophet ) which won my admiration and appreciation. They are: 1. "No lady should travel without her husband or without a Dhu-mahram for a two-days' journey. 2. No fasting is permissible on two days of 'Id-al-Fitr, and 'Id-al-Adha. 3. No prayer (may be offered) after two prayers: after the 'Asr prayer till the sun set and after the morning prayer till the sun rises. 4. Not to travel (for visiting) except for three mosques: Masjid-al-Haram (in Mecca), my Mosque (in Medina), and Masjid-al-Aqsa (in Jerusalem)."

Sahih Bukhari 3:29:87
Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is not lawful for a Muslim woman to travel a night's journey except when there is a mahram with her.

Sahih Muslim 7:3104
Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is not lawful for a woman who believes in Allah and the Hereafter to undertake a day's journey except in the company of a mahram.

Sahih Muslim 7:3105
Ibn 'Abbas (Allah be pleased with them) reported: I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) delivering a sermon and making this observation:" No person should be alone with a woman except when there is a mahram with her, and the woman should not undertake journey except with a mahram." A person stood up and said: Allah's Messenger, my wife has set out for pilgrimage, whereas I am enlisted to fight in such and such battle, whereupon he said:" You go and perform Hajj with your wife."

Sahih Muslim 7:3110
There are further incidents that occurred during the life of Muhammad that cement the prohibition between intersex socialization:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri On 'Id ul Fitr or 'Id ul Adha Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) went out to the Musalla. After finishing the prayer, he delivered the sermon and ordered the people to give alms. He said, "O people! Give alms." Then he went towards the women and said. "O women! Give alms, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were you (women)." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He replied, "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray." Then he left. And when he reached his house, Zainab, the wife of Ibn Masud, came and asked permission to enter It was said, "O Allah's Apostle! It is Zainab." He asked, 'Which Zainab?" The reply was that she was the wife of Ibn Mas'ub. He said, "Yes, allow her to enter." And she was admitted. Then she said, "O Prophet of Allah! Today you ordered people to give alms and I had an ornament and intended to give it as alms, but Ibn Masud said that he and his children deserved it more than anybody else." The Prophet replied, "Ibn Masud had spoken the truth. Your husband and your children had more right to it than anybody else."

Sahih Bukhari 2:24:541
Ibn Hajr offers the following observations about this hadith:

"The fact that he went to the women separately shows that the women were assembled separately from the men and were not mixed in with them."

Fath al-Bari (2/466)
Narrated Um Salama: Whenever Allah's Apostle completed the prayer with Taslim, the women used to get up immediately and Allah's Apostle would remain at his place for someone before getting up. (The sub-narrator (Az-Zuhri) said, "We think, and Allah knows better, that he did so, so that the women might leave before men could get in touch with them)."

Sahih Bukhari 1:12:829
Ibn Hajr comments:

"In the hadith, we see that it is disliked for men and women to mix on the road. How much more, then, should such mixing be avoided inside of houses."

Fath al-Bari (2/336)
The Prophet (peace be upon him) never shook hands with an unrelated woman. Umaymah b. Raqiqah said: "I came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) with a group of the women of Madinah to swear fealty for Islam. The women informed Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) that they wished to swear fealty to him. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: 'I do not shake hands with women. The way I accept the pledge from one woman is the same as with one hundred women."

al-Muwatta', Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Sunan al-Nasa'i and Sunan Ibn Majah
There is also evidence that women may not sit with unrelated males if she is wearing perfume:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "Any woman who puts on perfume then goes and passes by some men to let them find her scent is a type of adulteress."

Musnad Ahmad, Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Sunan Abi Dawud, and Sunan al-Nasa'i with a sound chain of transmission
From the above Quranic verse and the related hadiths presented in this article, that the Islamic jurists have come to the conclusions that they have - that free-mixing of the sexes is not allowed in Islam. Imam Nawawi, a famous Jurist in Islam gives his verdict in his Majmu’:

"Ibn al-Mundhir and others maintain that it is a matter of unanimous agreement that women are not obligated to attend the Jumu'ah prayers. However, his argument that this is because it brings about the mixing of women and men is not correct. The attendance of women at the Jumu'ah prayers does not necessarily bring about such mixing since the women stay behind the men. ."

Al-Majmu/4/350
Nawawi continues:

"One of the vilest innovations, that some ignorant people today are involved in, is the habit of lighting candles on Mount 'Arafah on the ninth night. This behavior is gravely misguided and is full of improper goings-on such as the mixing of men and women."

Al-Majmu/8/140
Another Jurist Sarkashi is of the same opinion of Nawawi:

"The judge should try women separately from men since people tend to crowd together in the courtroom. It is quite obvious that the mixing together of men and women under such crowded conditions is conducive to temptation and other distasteful consequences."

Al-Mabsot/16/80
The only exception to all of the above information is in the case of Mahram men. Mahram refers to those whom marriage is prohibited in Islam. These include fathers, uncles, brothers and close blood relatives.

[edit] Recent Fatwas
Recent Fatwas from Muslim scholars underline the contention that free-mixing of men and women is not allowed in Islam under any circumstances, to this very day:

Question: What is Islam's view of women working alongside men?


Answer: It is known that when women go to work in the workplaces of men this leads to mixing with men and being in private with them. This is a very dangerous matter that has dangerous consequences and negative results. It is in clear opposition to the texts of the Shariah that order the women to remain in their houses and to fulfill the type of work that is particular for her and upon which Allah has fashioned her nature, which is far from the place where she will mix with men.

The clear, authentic evidences that indicate that it is forbidden for men and non related women to be in private together and for men to look at women are numerous. There are also much evidence that what leads up to those forbidden ends are also forbidden. The evidences are many, clear and decisive that the mixing between the sexes is forbidden as it leads to negative and blameworthy results.

Shaikh AbdulAziz Bin Bazz'Islamic Fatwas regarding Women' Page # 313
Question: Is it allowed for Muslim women to attend educational meetings and fiqh study sessions in the mosques?

Answer: Yes. It is allowed for her to attend educational meetings, regardless if they are related to practical matters or to matters of faith and monotheism. This is given the condition that she is not perfumed or displaying her beauty. She must also be distant from the men and not mixing with them.


Question: What are the permissible types of work for a Muslim woman to work in without being in contradiction with the teachings of her religion?


Answer: The places of work for women are those places that are specific for women. For example, she may work in woman's education, either in administration or otherwise. She can also work in her house by being a tailor for women and so forth. It is not allowed for her to work in areas which are exclusive for men because in that case she must mix with men and this is a great source of trial and temptation that one must beware of.

Shaikh Ibn Uthaimin Fatwas regarding Women' Page No. 364
[edit] Conclusion
Under Islamic law, it is not permissable for men and women to freely mix or socialize with non Mahram men under any circumstances. Islamic scholars are unanimous on this matter because the prophet of Islam left behind his words: “I have not left behind me any temptation more harmful for men than women”

 

[Awesome]

It is a Pew Poll and before dismissing it, should have searched online.

Here's the survey report:- Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah | Pew Global Attitudes Project

Congratulations folks, 85% of Pakistanis want segregation in the workplace, 82% want to stone adulterers, 82% want to whip/chop off the hands of thieves and 76% want death penalty for those who leave Islam - all figures the highest amongst the countries polled every year. Proudly maintaining our brand in the annual survey.



Question asked was:-

Q108a ASK MUSLIMS ONLY: Do you favor or oppose making the following the law in (survey country)? a. Segregation of men and women in the workplace?

You can find survey details here (https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=...tudes-Muslim-Report-FINAL-December-2-2010.pdf) and while sampling says it's disproportionately urban, that's not a new thing since all polls in Pakistan are + they say Pak is 33% urban while most accounts estimate a minimum of 40% urbanization now. Sampling error is taken to be 3 %age points.

Working for one of the largest (in manpower and regional presence) company in Pakistan, I have seen everybody grumping about the lack of women in the workplace. There is a trend of not keeping women in jobs demanding long hours at the office since they are not able to do the required slave labor without extra pay .

I being from one such department had only one woman working with us, but even she left after pregnancy and never came back. But other departments where there is routine work or sales work, women are there in 30-40% representation.

The other thing is mostly old men are in charge of the hiring/firing positions and government offices are filled with babay that resist all change in general. Hiring women also means hiring fresh blood.

Q108a ASK MUSLIMS ONLY: Do you favor or oppose making the following the law in (survey country)? a. Segregation of men and women in the workplace?

I was wondering if there was any reference to Islam made in the survey. You know if Islam is mentioned, even if inappropriately, humari mat maari jaati hai and we tread onto the path of blind zombie following. Saying no would be equated to going against Islam (even though its not) and who knows being Kharij as well and the whole thing snowballs from there.

 

[JonAsad]

hmm, what Pakistani awam wants, should be given to them, no point in forcing laws onto them, that will lead to a bloody Iquilab. 'Remeber Iran? People reacted'

Let the Pakistanis in Pakistan decide what they want, and let them have it.

 

[roadrunner]

Majority of Muslims want Islam in politics, poll says
They have mixed feelings about the militant groups Hamas and Hezbollah, the survey shows.

Reporting from Beirut —
A majority of Muslims around the world welcome a significant role for Islam in their countries' political life, according to a new poll from the Pew Research Center, but have mixed feelings toward militant religious groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah.

According to the survey, majorities in Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan and Nigeria would favor changing current laws to allow stoning as a punishment for adultery, hand amputation for theft and death for those who convert from Islam to another religion. About 85% of Pakistani Muslims said they would support a law segregating men and women in the workplace.

Muslims in Indonesia, Egypt, Nigeria and Jordan were among the most enthusiastic, with more than three-quarters of poll respondents in those countries reporting positive views of Islam's influence in politics: either that Islam had a large role in politics, and that was a good thing, or that it played a small role, and that was bad.


Turkish Muslims were the most conflicted, with just more than half reporting positive views of Islam's influence in politics. Turkey has struggled in recent years to balance a secular political system with an increasingly fervent Muslim population.

Even if true (which it probably isn't, loaded questions etc), it doesn't mean that Pakistan should enact any such law. Becomes even more important if those surveyed can't read or write.

 

[Trishanku]

hmm, what Pakistani awam wants, should be given to them, no point in forcing laws onto them, that will lead to a bloody Iquilab. 'Remeber Iran? People reacted'

Let the Pakistanis in Pakistan decide what they want, and let them have it.

I believe you are one of the 85% respondants.

 

[roadrunner]

Segregation!

Tauba, tauba.

I think they interviewed men from Pakhtunwa only.

There's no need for this nonsense.

I'm sure there's just as many ignorant views within Punjab, Sindh and Balochistan. It is more of money/development issue, with rural, undeveloped regions being the most afflicted.

 

[SMC]

I sense this is statistical manipulation. Here's why.

Pew, the same group manipulated statistics in the past when it said that only 25% of Pakistanis believe TTP were the ones behind terrorist attacks in Pakistan. We know that is BS, from all other opinion polls and what people in Pakistan think about TTP.

However, here's the kicker. Here's how I think Pew came up with the numbers. Pew said 75% of Pakistanis believed India was behind the terrorist attacks. From that, they must have had a false dilemma and said that since 75% of Pakistanis believe India is behind terrorist attacks, only remaining 25% would believe that TTP were the ones behind terrorist attacks.

But as I said, that's a false dilemma, because in fact Pakistanis believe that India is using TTP to carry out the attacks. There's no way you can make me or any normal Pakistani who knows Pakistanis believe that just 25% think that TTP are behind the terrorist attacks.

Btw, I know some Indian will read this and get excited, so I want to point out I am not debating whether India is really involved in terrorism nor will I debate that. That's not really relevant here.

 

[JonAsad]

I believe you are one of the 85% respondants.

I like to flow with the majority. Thats all

 

[T-Faz]

There's no need for this nonsense.

I'm sure there's just as many ignorant views within Punjab, Sindh and Balochistan. It is more of money/development issue, with rural, undeveloped regions being the most afflicted.

Lighten up,

The comment was just supposed to be a light joke.

@ topic

The results are not a true reflection of Pakistani society because extremely varying opinions can be found across the country depending on a number of factors such as socio-economical.

Pakistan has been and will be a place where extreme segregation like one found in Saudi Arabia will never come into existence throughout because it is not part of our lifestyle.

Sure you will get areas and groups where segregation does occur but there is no way 85% of people in Pakistan would opt for segregation.

If there was such a high demand, it would have occurred already.

 

[Parthvi]

I strongly disagree. The Pakistanis I know and the one's that I met once when I was there, have a very liberal outlook on life. I happened to go to some rurral areas and saw men and women mingling in the fields and where ever they had to carry out their daily chores. That was 15 years back, when I met the Late Benazir Bhutto (1995), I can tell you mehboobkz that your assesment and that survey (if it does exist) is totally wrong.

 

[RayKalm]

Hello

We muslims with all our short comings want to live the life according to quran and sunnah is our dream which we like to turn it to reality.

This is not new to me.

TARIQ

Excuse me? So you would stone me to death if I was raped as a victim and the people in the community blamed it as adultery?

And where in the Qu'ran does it say to stone adulters to death?

 

[somebozo]

The place of Islam is a mosque and place of politics is parliament..the sooner we realize this the faster we can come out of the mess we are in.. off-course we want the rule of Islam but that does not mean rule of mullahs...

Islam prohibits free-mixing between men and women. It is argued that direct references for this prohibition can not be found in either the Qur'an or the Sunnah of the Prophet; but this can not mean that such conduct is permissible in Islam.

If islam really prohibited free mixing then the first of such ban would have been enforced in Hajj and Umrah. Islam has advocated a moderate path that is interaction of genders with in the boundaries of modesty. If segregation was path to development, then Saudis would not be desperately trying to ease this segregation.

Like i said, Islam of today has become Najdi / Deobandi / Talibani imperialism and the faster we wake up to this reality the better.

 

[SHAMK9]

No thanks, you believe in it? Cool, good for you, keep it yourself, no need to enforce it on to others. P.s this poll is loads of B.S (from personal experience in Pakistan)

 

[yyetttt]

Who the faak woud dig out a 2 year old thread

 

[Omar1984]

Segregation!

Tauba, tauba.

I think they interviewed men from Pakhtunwa only.

Don't be so sure about that. I grew up in a Punjabi Muslim Pakistani household and whenever we had social gatherings, weddings, and dinner parties men and women sat separately. Not only Pakhtunkhwa is Muslim majority. Traditional Arab Muslims also segregate men and women. Its just Karachi that is different from rest of Pakistan.

There's no need for this nonsense.

I'm sure there's just as many ignorant views within Punjab, Sindh and Balochistan. It is more of money/development issue, with rural, undeveloped regions being the most afflicted.

If you have ever attended a wedding in Northern Punjab or anywhere in Punjab out of Lahore, you will see we also segregate men and women. At the end of the day, we all are Muslims and our Muslim way of life is what separate us from indians.