800 million living on 20 Rp a day

[blain2]

Chrome,

Thanks for reminding me about something. When you stated

You see Indian drama's, the houses they live in, the constant media bombardment of rich dynamic nuclear Indian elite families which are in another world to te majority of India whilst being in the same country speaks for itself. Bollywood films have pretty much lost their faith in depicting real life scenarios. The India being portrayed to the gullable westener is one of a highly Industrialised advance society.

it just reminded me of the IN documentary that Adux just posted. The Indian actress and her mannerisms, talk (there was very little hindi if any) etc. seemed all a bit out of place. Now I can't blame them alone for this, I went to a friend's house recently and ended up seeing a bit of the Lux awards show in Pakistan...I was like, "this totally does not represent Pakistan!". These folks were acting like they were sitting in Hollywood or some other joint outside of a country called Pakistan. I think both sides and their elites have built this lifestyle that does not reflect the reality of the two countries at all.

I have lived most of my life in the west so I am not going to say that the lifestyle is wrong or not, however it certainly seems very alien to the cultures of both countries.

 

[Adux]

Blain,

That is again so misplaced. I expect you to understand the situation a bit better.

I am a malayalee, 200 kms of you have Tamilians, 500 Kms of We have Kannadiga's and 800 Kms Telegu's... This is just the south India. We have far too many languages.
Since IN contains PEOPLE from all of India. The best language is English. Since it is not Indian language, there is not much tensions for people using, as they dont feel some other section of their country is preserving their culture, while they are loosing theirs. With English everybody looses...lol... Welcome to Human nature

And please dont look at a former Miss.universe and a top actress, with bollywood Hinglish to make or pass a judgement on the whole indian society, and i assure you for an outsider like you, is past your intellectual capacity from there, please get down here, Indians are vast and very very differnet from each other.

 

[blain2]

Blain,

That is again so misplaced. I expect you to understand the situation a bit better.

I am a malayalee, 200 kms of you have Tamilians, 500 Kms of We have Kannadiga's and 800 Kms Telegu's... This is just the south India. We have far too many languages.
Since IN contains PEOPLE from all of India. The best language is English. Since it is not Indian language, there is not much tensions for people using, as they dont feel some other section of their country is preserving their culture, while they are loosing theirs. With English everybody looses...lol... Welcome to Human nature

And please dont look at a former Miss.universe and a top actress, with bollywood Hinglish to make or pass a judgement on the whole indian society, and i assure you for an outsider like you, is past your intellectual capacity from there, please get down here, Indians are vast and very very differnet from each other.

You are right. Your point about English is understood. I did overlook the part that in India, there are very diverse cultures and not everyone is fluent in Hindi so I admit I overlooked that part.

On the second part about passing judgement on the Indian society, please take note that I was talking about a specific strata of the Indian AND Pakistani society...the so-called elites (and believe me these elites mix very well with each other as they can relate with their counterparts across the border moreso than with their compatriots on the lower rungs). They have built lifestyles around themselves that belie the reality of the rest of the society/population.

 

[Adux]

The High Society of every country will be the same. To be honest they have same characters all round the world, regardless of language, nationality, race etc. Elite's will be Elite's

 

[Bushroda]

It is no hidden fact that 77% of India's population lives on or less than $2(PPP) a day. Similar figure for Pakistan is slightly better at 74%. Rs.20 in India is equivalent to $2 on PPP terms, so there isn't anything new that the report says except for sensationalizing an already known fact.

 

[blain2]

The report is not "sensationalizing" anything. If anything its reminding readers that a big problem exists in terms of poverty. Going by the weird logic you display here, I should remind you of a culture of complacency that takes root when you are not being critical. In the Pakistan Army at least, this syndrome is known as "sab accha" syndrome. Let me know if I need to translate that for you but in essense its simply a case where no critique or fact-finding is done and you roll up a pretty picture upwards. For some reason the denials here by the Indians sound very much like the same deal. Its the proverbial 800 lb gorrilla that you are faced with and suggestions thus far have included:

a) Lets focus on the positive
b) Lets not sensationalize

May I suggest that all of you (our Indian friends) graciously do the same for all threads pertaining to Pakistan?

 

[Bushroda]

The critique and fact finding what you are stating is being done for the last 60 years. Nobody for once has taken their eyes off the problem that persists. I refer this as sensational reporting as the reporter has clearly focussed on just one aspect clearly overshadowing the other. For anybody in the lower income bracket is entitled for government sponsored public distribution scheme where they are allowed to purchase food, fuel at a heavily subsidized rate(nearly 30% of the market prize). They have public schools and hospitals that provide them free healthcare and education. They can buy clothes at huge subsidized rate from Khadi Gramodyog. They are entitled for cheap travel tickets in public transports. So, it isn't that they arn't supported by government at any step. But, still that is how far the government can streatch resources for them.

This isn't something that has dogged only India but every developing nation is facing the same problem. Even with all its might and emerging profile China still has half its population earning less than $2 a day on PPP terms. But still, everybody acknowledges China's rising economic power simply for the potential it holds and the same goes for India. Talking about India's rising stature is not being complacent but an acknowledgement to the hard working people who have got India upto here that it is being seriously talked about in the west and the developed world. It is a hope and inspiration for us to achieve what was perceived impossible a decade ago.

As for your report I suggest you take a look at the post below

https://defence.pk/forums/showpost.php?p=75240&postcount=925

especially the last para. It clearly sums up what holds for these people.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

77 per cent earn Rs 20 a day in ‘Shining India’

Reuters . New Delhi

New Age - August 11, 2007

Seventy-seven per cent of Indians — about 836 million people — live on less than half a dollar a day in one of the world’s hottest economies, a government report said.

The state-run National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector said most of those living on below Rs 20 per day were from the informal labour sector with no job or social security, living in abject poverty.

‘For most of them, conditions of work are utterly deplorable and livelihood options extremely few,’ said the report, entitled ‘Conditions of Work and Promotion of Livelihoods in the Unorganised Sector’, seen by Reuters on Friday.

‘Such a sordid picture co-exists uneasily with a shining India that has successfully confronted the challenge of globalisation powered by economic competition both within the country and across the world.’

Around 26 per cent of India’s population lives below the poverty line, which is defined as Rs 12 per day, said officials.

Economic liberalisation since the early 1990s has created a 300 million-strong middle class and led to an average annual economic growth of 8.6 per cent over the last four years, but millions of the country’s poor remain untouched by the boom.

According to the report, based on data from 2004-2005, 92 per cent of India’s total workforce of 457 million were employed as agricultural labourers and farmers, or in jobs such as working in quarries, brick kilns or as street vendors.

The report said the majority of those working and living under ‘miserable conditions’ were lower castes, tribal people and Muslims and the most disadvantaged of these were women, migrant workers and children.

‘This is the other world which can be characterised as the India of the Common People, constituting more than three-fourths of the population and consisting of all those whom the growth has, by and large, bypassed,’ said the report.

The NCEUS report, which was presented to the prime minister, Manmohan Singh, on Wednesday, recommends the government provide social security benefits such as maternity and medical expenses as well as pensions to people working in the unorganised sector.

http://www.newagebd.com/front.html#18

 

[Marathaman]

The report is not "sensationalizing" anything. If anything its reminding readers that a big problem exists in terms of poverty. Going by the weird logic you display here, I should remind you of a culture of complacency that takes root when you are not being critical. In the Pakistan Army at least, this syndrome is known as "sab accha" syndrome. Let me know if I need to translate that for you but in essense its simply a case where no critique or fact-finding is done and you roll up a pretty picture upwards. For some reason the denials here by the Indians sound very much like the same deal. Its the proverbial 800 lb gorrilla that you are faced with and suggestions thus far have included:

a) Lets focus on the positive
b) Lets not sensationalize

May I suggest that all of you (our Indian friends) graciously do the same for all threads pertaining to Pakistan?

Alright. Let me clarify once and for all.

Indian poverty has been debated and discussed threadbare for 60 years.
So much in fact, that a couple of politicians actually decided to do something about it in the last decade.
Hence, the recent improvements, on which we are focusing at the moment, not to celebrate, but to increase the optimism all around, and demand more from them.

There is a difference between optimism and denial.

An optimistic middle class is essential for the country to progress, since these are the people who will ultimately lift the others out of poverty by working in govt. jobs,voting wisely and creating value in the private sector.This is a time for the press to focus on the positives, at the same time, not ignore our challenges.

We know about our poverty very well. But thanks for the reminder anyways.
We'll return the favour to Pakistan

 

[aksingh]

Pakistan is ranked 142 on the Human Development Index, compared to India 118 and Uganda 146. United Nations Development Programme.

 

[aksingh]

Indians donated during Tsunami, Kashmir Earthquake,Katrina.. We don't want US or for that matter any country's aid, We ain't no beggars.. True India has problems with famines but they are in the most far flung / severely disturbed areas(naxalite hit areas) / severely weather affected areas, which is/can true even for the most developed country, where it is not possible to efficiently run the government or administrative machinery.

Anyway people dying of hunger is old news the number of deaths due to hunger has sharply dropped, so has poverty per se.. The latest news that Indians survive on 20Rs or less is discounting possibly the food they get as part of the job, the free schooling, the free healthcare and the free facilities provided in far flung areas they receive etc.. As India has a huge population of children, women and elderly who dont work hence often one person is the sole breadwinner of the family. Hypothetically imagine a family of 1 husband, 1 wife, 1 grandparent, 4 children assuming the children, grandparent, women milk the family's only buffalo, goat for milk. The husband tills his meager land and also works as a part time laborer in another field in exchange for share of produce/ food. We see that if per capita income is 20rs in that case the husband makes about 140RS or 3.5$ per day in addition to food. Often we see that the farmers are subsistence / hand to mouth farmers or herders whose work participation can be thought of as 0. Hence the term Rs20 is misleading..

As per the census India has 320million population under 15 and usually unemployed in the traditional sense, 51 million over 65+ usually again unemployed in the traditional sense, 330 million women usually unemployed in the traditional sense. This leaves us with about 350 million workers earning.. Out of which 200 million earn more than Rs20 .. Therefore 150 million people earn money equivalent of 800 million earning 20Rs per day i.e. these 150 million men produce equivalent of 110Rs per day assuming hypothetical a village setting where the family is in a hand to mouth existence and primarily work to till their lands for food. Follow the logic...

 

[Adux]

we have a long way to go aksingh, things are not that rosy. The heading of India is known. we are prospering, but we have a while to go.

 

[Bull]

Unlike you guys I will be very clear as to what my motive is (I usually do not post this type of stuff but this was an eye opener for myself). It is to show that despite the 100s of other threads being opened up about India being this or that, the bottom line is that 80% of India has not changed for the better. Pakistani population living under the poverty line is around 28%. Social upliftment is going on in both countries however amongst all this talk of military prowess, the real issue is not the number of tanks, aircraft etc...rather its the upliftment of the vast majorities in both countries.

Also its not very sportsman like when you can't even accept the facts on the ground, yet your countrymen spare no chance to post similar articles all over the board pertaining to Pakistan. This article was my effort to put a bit of reality in front of you all as well...Pakistan is not alone in this boat. You guys have a long way to go as well.

Regards

Who bothered to write about Pakistanis economic boom? Who has the time to waste writing all those ' wonderland ' stories. 99% of the threads that Indians have posted
here about Pakistan is about the extremism previaling there. We bring in the Pakistani side only when we see the blessed souls from across the border comes speaking to us about our economic misery.

 

[joey]

blain from a economist viewpoint, simply put these reports are good as statistics but never presents the true picture. there are many parallel economy that runs.

80% of Indians living under $1 aka Rs 20 per day is laughable, Seriously even the poorest people who works in construction business as daily labour to peoples who works in other peoples home as maid earns more than this.

A construction labourer fetches around 60 to 80 bucks per day, a maid servent gets around 600 bucks per month with one time lunch free.

If you are saying 80% of Indians lives the money a beggar earns, then 80% must be beggars?
Surely we do have lots of poor peoples but 80% with a 300million middle class? and that too 20 bucks per day? I find it hard extremely hard to believe, the poorest of poor type of work other thasn pure begging will fetch you more than 20 bucks per day.

 

[Bull]

in light of the euphorea about this being the Indian century etc.,, this is something to be tackled as well. A Rp 8 difference between the 800 million and another 300 million is what splits the two classes between the poverty line and those above it...but in the scheme of things, what difference do 8 rupees make?

Technically, a large chunk of these 836 million Indians -
77 per cent of the country's population - are above the
poverty line at Rs 12 per day

I dont think GOI figures say 77% are above poverty line, it puts it somewhere around 65% or lower.

And yeah Blain who said India is a power now, most of the reports coming out from Funds houses/Research teams point towards India achieveing it in coming years if the problems pointed out by the author here is tackled.

You have just wasted your time and our time bringing this 'beaten to death' topic alive.