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8 Chinese submarines approval & used western subs talks

Italy's Type 212A boats are being built by Fincantieri in cooperation with Germany's HDW based on a Memorandum of Understanding between the Italian and German defense ministries. The Italian submarines are being manufactured on the basis of German designs and the boats' equipment is similar to that of the German Type 212s but they will use different torpedoes and electro-optic masts. The vessels have also been adapted to operate in the Mediterranean's warmer waters. The first Type 212A vessel, Salvatore Todaro S 526l, was commissioned in January 2005 and entered into service in May 2006. The second boat in this class, Scirè S 527, was commissioned in January 2007 and entered into service in 2008. Two additional Type 212A vessels were ordered in August 2008 and are currently being built at Fincantieri Shipyard in Muggiano - they are scheduled to be delivered to the Italian Navy in 2015 and 2016.

The Italian built boats use Germany/Siemens AIP
Siemens delivers technology for new Italian submarines
 
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Italy's Type 212A boats are being built by Fincantieri in cooperation with Germany's HDW based on a Memorandum of Understanding between the Italian and German defense ministries. The Italian submarines are being manufactured on the basis of German designs and the boats' equipment is similar to that of the German Type 212s but they will use different torpedoes and electro-optic masts. The vessels have also been adapted to operate in the Mediterranean's warmer waters. The first Type 212A vessel, Salvatore Todaro S 526l, was commissioned in January 2005 and entered into service in May 2006. The second boat in this class, Scirè S 527, was commissioned in January 2007 and entered into service in 2008. Two additional Type 212A vessels were ordered in August 2008 and are currently being built at Fincantieri Shipyard in Muggiano - they are scheduled to be delivered to the Italian Navy in 2015 and 2016.

The Italian built boats use Germany/Siemens AIP
Siemens delivers technology for new Italian submarines

Italy's Fincantieri Shipyard is currently manufacturing Type 212A submarines based on designs ... The Italian shipyard Fincantieri offers two vessels for export:.

Source: "Naval Vessel: U212A," Fincantieri, Fincantieri | Costruzioni navali - Navi da crociera, mercantili e militari - Costruzione Yacht di lusso
 
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Well, China can offer the deal of the nuclear sub in the same package.

The Type 093G with 24 advanced VLS cells and a newly designed nuclear reactor, also with the pump-jet propulsion.

This is China's peer SSN against the Virginia class, better than the Soviet Oscar class and the American LA class.

No matter how 'advanced' the European SSKs are, nothing can match the deal of the advanced SSN.
I agree Sir we should have 14 Submarines and out of which two should be Nuclear like Type 93G
 
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Chinese Sub Boosts Pakistan's Sea-Based Nuclear Deterrent

Report by Prasun K. Sengupta: "Submarine Sails"
Wednesday June 22, 2011 04:42:25 GMT

Pakistan's efforts to have a sea-based minimum credible nuclear deterrent vis-a-vis India took a significant step forward last month when the state-owned, Wuhan-based China State Shipbuilding Industrial Corp (CSIC) ferried the first Qing-class conventional attack submarine (SSK) to Shanghai to begin a year-long series of sea trials, which is likely to
include the test-firing of three CJ-10K submarine-launched, 1,500km-range land attack cruise missiles (LACM) capable of being armed with unitary tactical nuclear warheads. Called the Qing-class SSK, it is a variant of the Type 041A Improved Yuan-class SSK, which is also due to begin its sea trials later this month.

It is now believed that the contract inked between CSIC and Pakistan early last April (see FORCE April 2011, pages 16-17) calls for the CSIC's Wuhan-based Wuchang Shipyard to supply six Qing-class SSKs, all of which will be equipped with a Stirling-cycle AIP system and will be able to carry up to three nuclear warhead-carrying CJ-10K LACMs each. The double-hulled Qing-class SSK, with a submerged displacement close to 3,600 tonnes, bears a close resemblance to the Russian Type 636M SSK, and features hull-retractable foreplanes and hydrodynamically streamlined sail.

The first such SSK was launched in Wuhan on September 9 last year, and a total of three such SSKs are on order from China's PLA Navy as well. The AIP system for the Qing-class SSK was developed by the 711th Research Institute of CSIC. R&D work began in June 1996, with a 100-strong team of scientists and engineers led by Dr Jin Donghan being involved in developing the Stirling-cycle engine, while another team led Professor Ma Weiming of China's Naval Engineering University began developing the all-electric AIP system. The two projects entered the production engineering stage in 2007, with the Shanghai Qiyao Propulsion Technology Ltd, a wholly owned subsidiary of the 711th Institute, becoming the principal industrial entity charged with producing the AIP system. Incidentally, the Qing-class SSK's all-electric propulsion system is a derivative of a similar system that was developed about a decade ago for
the PLA Navy's six Type 093 Shang-class SSGNs and three Type 094 Jin-class SSBNs.

The submarine-launched CJ-10K LACM has been developed by the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp's (CASIC) Hubei-based Ninth Academy (also known as the Sanjiang Aerospace Group, or 066 Base) on cooperation
with the Third Academy's Beijing-based Xinghang Electromechanical Equipment Factory (159 Factory). Final assembly of the CJ-10K is undertaken by the Beijing-based Hangxing Machine Building Factory (239Factory). The CJ-10K features an imaging infra-red optronic system for terminal homing, and it makes use of a ring laser gyro-based inertial
navigation system combined with a GPS receiver to receive navigational updates from China's 'Beidou' constellation of GPS navigation satellites.

In another development, during Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani's four-day official visit to China beginning May 17, the decks were cleared for the Pakistan Navy to acquire for a 10-year lease period the two Jiangkai I-class Type 054 guided-missile frigates (FFG) Ma'anshan (FFG-525) and Wenzhou (FFG-526), which have been in service with the PLA Navy's East Sea Fleet since 2005 (see FORCE December 2010, pages 44-46).

The Type 054 Jiangkai I-class FFG, built by CSTC's Shanghai-based Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard and the Guangzhou-based Huangpu Shipyard, displaces around 4,300 tonnes, and comes armed with twin quadruple
launchers amidships housing the YJ-83 anti-ship cruise missile (equipped with a 165kg warhead), one CPMIEC-built eight-cell Hong Qi-7 short-range SAM system designed to engage aircraft in all-weather conditions out to a range of 12km, a single-barrel 100mm main gun developed by China's 713 Institute, four six-barrel 30mm AK-630M clo se-in weapon systems (CIWS), twin 18-tube countermeasures dispensers, and twin Type 87 six-tube 240mm anti-submarine rocket launchers, with 36 rockets. The FFG has a combat management system built by China Electronics Technology Group Corp (CETC), and a sensor suite that includes a Type 360S 2-D air/surface radar operating in E/F-band and having a range of 150km, one I-band MR-36A surface search radar, an I-band Type 347G radar for CIWS fire-control, an I/J-band Type 344 radar for main gun targeting, SNTI-240 SATCOM radio, HZ-100 EW suite, twin I-band RM-1290 navigation radars, and a J-band Type 345 radar for fire-control of the Hong Q i-7. The FFG also comes fitted with a Russian MGK-335 fixed hull-mounted medium-frequency active/passive panoramic sonar suite. The propulsion system is of the combined diesel and diesel (CODAD) arrangement and employs four SEMT Pielstick (now MAN DieselSA) 16 PA6V-280 STC diesel engines to give the FFG a cruise speed of 27Knots.
China imported the 16 PA6V-280 STC's production rights in the late 1990s and is now producing the engines locally under licence at Shaanxi Diesel Factory. Each 16 PA6V-280 engine can produce a sustained power of 4,720kW (6,330hp), giving a total power of 18,880kW (25,320hp). The Jiangkai 1-class Type 054 FFG also has a helicopter deck capable of housing a Harbin Z-9EC multi-role shipborne helicopter, three of which are presently in service with the Pakistan Navy.

The Global Intelligence Files - CHINA/ASIA PACIFIC-Chinese Sub Boosts Pakistan's Sea-Based Nuclear Deterrent
We need to have two Submarines like Type 93G and also need Destroyers
 
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Italy's Fincantieri Shipyard is currently manufacturing Type 212A submarines based on designs ... The Italian shipyard Fincantieri offers two vessels for export:.

Source: "Naval Vessel: U212A," Fincantieri, Fincantieri | Costruzioni navali - Navi da crociera, mercantili e militari - Costruzione Yacht di lusso
U212 Submarine represents the result of the Agreement signed on April 1996 between German and Italian MoD’s for a Joint German - Italian Submarine Programme. Two submarines have been realized for Italian Program: Todaro (2006) and Scirè (2007).
Submarine=

Promoted by ITALIAN MoD, the cooperation between FINCANTIERI Naval Vessel Business Unit and Russian Partner State-Owned Enterprise Central Design Bureau For Marine Engineering “RUBIN” (under the aegis of Russian Federal State Unitary Enterprise “ROSOBORONEXPORT“), resulted in the S1000 design, which have been designed on the basis of the most cost-effective equipments of both Countries.
Submarine=

S1000
000022_foto1_img1.jpg


Amur 950
amur950_zpsf1c73f17.jpg~original


S1000-class submarines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Both Fincantieri and Rubin gave a joint presentation to the Indian Navy offering to build 6 S1000 boats for $3.5 billion
The other contenders for the project include the Scorpène class submarine of France, the Type 214 submarine of Germany and the Amur class submarine itself from Russia
 
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Those would have to be made in Pakistan with indigenous nuclear reactors, the rest can be borrowed from China, just to conform to the international arms conventions. But a lease is always possible.

China could transfer the ToT of the newly designed nuclear reactor to Pakistan.
 
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Submarine=


Submarine=

S1000
000022_foto1_img1.jpg


Amur 950
amur950_zpsf1c73f17.jpg~original


S1000-class submarines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Both Fincantieri and Rubin gave a joint presentation to the Indian Navy offering to build 6 S1000 boats for $3.5 billion
The other contenders for the project include the Scorpène class submarine of France, the Type 214 submarine of Germany and the Amur class submarine itself from Russia

Who cares, your answer is not relevant to the subject being discussed, we are talking about the possibilities for used European submarines. And I am bringing the fact that type-212A is available from Italy, for two submarines.

China could transfer the ToT of the newly designed nuclear reactor to Pakistan.
That is a possibility , still, I do think that Pakistan has its own miniaturized nuclear reactor for what it needs. i'e; a small nuclear submarine of around 6000/7000t.
 
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That is a possibility , still, I do think that Pakistan has its own miniaturized nuclear reactor for what it needs. i'e; a small nuclear submarine of around 6000/7000t.

A 6000-7000 tons SSN is surely not small, unless you were talking about the SSBN.
 
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A 6000-7000 tons SSN is surely not small, unless you were talking about the SSBN.
That is the smallest one can get, smaller than that was the first US nuclear submarine "The Nautilus" at 5000t with no weapons at all.
 
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That is the smallest one can get, smaller than that was the first US nuclear submarine "The Nautilus" at 5000t with no weapons at all.

The current US SSBNs are huge like the Ohio class, but their current SSN varies from 6000 tons to 12000 tons.

The most common SSN for the USN is the LA class which displaces about 6000-7000 tons.

So even by the USN standard, a 6000-7000 tons nuclear sub is not meant to be small.
 
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