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67th anniversary Hiroshima bombings

Ever wondered about that Gambit?
Do you really think you posted anything new? No. Whoever wrote that crap have a flawed understanding of what is an 'unconditional surrender'.

A demand for unconditional surrender is separate from what happens AFTER the surrender. It does not mean the victor does not have the latitude to either commit genocide, salt the earth, kill the men folk and enslave the women, and burn everything, or simply allow the population to retain a political figurehead after they have laid down their arms.

So what if Russia threatened Japan? If the US could blockade the Japanese Islands in an alternative scenario, what make you think the US could not keep the Russians out? A blockade works both ways, correct?
 
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vsdoc is right, dropping atomic bombs had nothing to do with official US explanations, which were debunked by American activists themselves, much like attacking Iraq had nothing to do with WMD.

However, I'm still wondering why nuclear bombs were dropped on civilian districts, why not on Japanese army, etc? The only explanation I got, US wanted to test new weapon on a more populated areas than military bases. Plus they could see the bombs effect on the cities, against which US was planning to use nuclear bombs later, if lets say war started with Russia.

Absolutely inhumane and brutal by US, nothing changed much since those days.
 
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Gambit, the Declaration of Surrender signed on the 9th of September 1945 states that the Emperor ceases to rule autonomously and would or not do so at the discretion of the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers.

In fact after going through the entire declaration, the tone and language at MANY places clearly indicate to an unbiased reader that the Japanese military signatories are surrendering because their Emperor wishes them to do so.

Thus implying in letter and spirit of the declaration the necessity of having the Emperor very much alive and kicking and hale and hearty for the continued success of the surrender as per the Potsdam Declaration, and cessation of all hostilities.

Regardless," being allowed to keep their Emperor reduces that to semantics, and would have been something they would have agreed to much earlier as mentioned above. Before two of their cities were wiped out.

Costly semantics, hollow victory, if that was all that you are implying was being looked for. Not to mention completely against the Geneva Conventions regarding assualt on civilian targets. (please spare me the military factories on the outskirts bit - this was military Japan).

Russia would have taken Northern Japan. With or without the US. Post Manchuria, the only thing which would slow them down was their comparative lack of heavy naval lift for the landings. A large part of Truman's strategy was using Japan as a counter lever to Europe in the scramble for post war spoils.

The Cold War had already started before the hot war officially drew down.
 
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vsdoc is right, dropping atomic bombs had nothing to do with official US explanations, which were debunked by American activists themselves, much like attacking Iraq had nothing to do with WMD.

However, I'm still wondering why nuclear bombs were dropped on civilian districts, why not on Japanese army, etc? The only explanation I got, US wanted to test new weapon on a more populated areas than military bases. Plus they could see the bombs effect on the cities, against which US was planning to use nuclear bombs later, if lets say war started with Russia.

Absolutely inhumane and brutal by US, nothing changed much since those days.

Read this ...... maybe a conspiracy theory ...... then again, can you bet against it .....

"In May of 1945, the architects of postwar strategy, or, as they liked to call themselves, the "Masters of the Universe", gathered in San Francisco at the plush Palace Hotel to write the Charter for the United Nations. Several of the principals retired for a private meeting in the exclusive Garden Room. The head of the United States delegation had called this secret meeting with his top aide, Alger Hiss, representing the president of the United States and the Soviet KGB; John Foster Dulles, of the Wall Street law firm of Sullivan and Cromwell, whose mentor, William Nelson Cromwell, had been called a "professional revolutionary" on the floor of Congress; and W. Averill Harriman, plenipotentiary extraordinary, who had spent the last two years in Moscow directing Stalin's war for survival.

These four men represented the awesome power of the American Republic in world affairs, yet of the four, only Secretary of State Edward Stettinius Jr., had a position authorized by the Constitution.

Stettinius called the meeting to order to discuss an urgent matter; the Japanese were already privately suing for peace, which presented a grave crisis. The atomic bomb would not be ready for several more months. "We have already lost Germany," Stettinius said. "If Japan bows out, we will not have a live population on which to test the bomb."

"But, Mr. Secretary," said Alger Hiss, "no one can ignore the terrible power of this weapon."

"Nevertheless," said Stettinius, "our entire postwar program depends on terrifying the world with the atomic bomb."

"To accomplish that goal," said John Foster Dulles, "you will need a very good tally. I should say a million."

"Yes," replied Stettinius, "we are hoping for a million tally in Japan. But if they surrender, we won't have anything."

"Then you have to keep them in the war until the bomb is ready," said John Foster Dulles.

"That is no problem. Unconditional surrender." "They won't agree to that," said Stettinius. "They are sworn to protect the Emperor."

"Exactly," said John Foster Dulles. "Keep Japan in the war another three months, and we can use the bomb on their cities; we will end this war with the naked fear of all the peoples of the world, who will then bow to our will."

Edward Stettinius Jr. was the son of a J.P. Morgan partner who had been the world's largest munitions dealer in the First World War. He had been named by J.P. Morgan to oversee all purchases of munitions by both France and England in the United States throughout the war. John Foster Dulles was also an accomplished warmonger. In 1933, he and his brother Allen had rushed to Cologne to meet with Adolf Hitler and guaranteed him the funds to maintain the Nazi regime. The Dulles brothers were representing their clients, Kuhn Loeb Co., and the Rothschilds.

Alger Hiss was the golden prince of the communist elite in the united States. When he was chosen as head of the prestigious Carnegie Endowment for International Peace after World War II, his nomination was seconded by John Foster Dulles. Hiss was later sent to prison for perjury for lying about his exploits as a Soviet espionage agent.

This secret meeting in the Garden Room was actually the first military strategy session of the United Nations, because it was dedicated to its mission of exploding the world's first atomic weapon on a living population. It also forecast the entire strategy of the Cold War, which lasted forty-three years, cost American taxpayers five trillion dollars, and accomplished exactly nothing, as it was intended to do. These leaders had learned from their master, Josef Stalin, that no one can rule without mass terrorism, which in turn required mass murder. As Senator Vandenberg, leader of the Republican loyal opposition, was to say (as quoted in American Heritage magazine, August 1977), "We have got to scare the hell out of "em."
"

Source: THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE ATOMIC BOMB - WHY HIROSHIMA WAS DESTROYED

The Untold Story

by Eustace C. Mullins, June 1998


Americans and their supporters can STILL "try" and defend Hiroshima.

But Nagasaki was anything but military.
 
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^^

We down to illuminati now, eh?
 
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^^

We down to illuminati now, eh?

Sounds about as credible as what Gambit and his countrymen dish out.

Of particular interst, Mullins goes on to say of the firebombing of Japanese cities that had started long before the nukes were dropped -

"Of Japan's 66 biggest cities, 59 had been mostly destroyed. 178 square miles of urban dwellings had been burned, 500,000 died in the fires, and now twenty million Japanese were homeless. Only four cities had not been destroyed; Hiroshima, Kokura, Niigata, and Nagasaki. Their inhabitants had no inkling that they had been saved as target cities for the experimental atomic bomb."

It is said that Kokura had been pre-chosen as the second to get hit, but at the last moment, Nagasaki was pushed up to take the second hit.
 
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Im interested what would you do after 5 years of exhausting fighting to ensure that your nation comes out on top after it.
In the grand scheme of things as much as it sounds horrible and i hate myself for writing it, 200.000 lives at the end of WWII was "minor".

That's the bottom line. Now if that ensured Japan's surrender, cornering Russia for the future or combination of both it was deemed acceptable.
It also doesnt really make any sense why would the Americans accept anything less then unconditional surrender and a surrender to the Russians no less. Kind of a "sour victory" after you went through the whole Pacific.

You have a soft heart, excellent and sought after quality in a doctor. Very undesireable for politics.
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Audio, maybe you did not read all I have put forth.

Japan was on its knees as early as January of 1945.

Backroom negotiations had started by March of the same year.

McArthur was very much a party to those, and Roosevelt and then Truman, for all their palusible deniability, were ALWAYS in the loop.

By May, Japan was ready for a surrender, as long as their Emperor was not tried or harmed. Tojo was never even a factor.

Why did America still delay, and go in for the surrender only AFTER nuking Japan?

TWICE?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Make no mistake.

Those who died in Nagasaki died for the Russians and the future of American superpower aspirations.
 
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Audio, as an American, you should read this bro -

A Secret Memorandum - by Mark Weber

It was only after the war that the American public learned about Japan's efforts to bring the conflict to an end. Chicago Tribune reporter Walter Trohan, for example, was obliged by wartime censorship to withhold for seven months one of the most important stories of the war.

In an article that finally appeared August 19, 1945, on the front pages of the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Times-Herald, Trohan revealed that on January 20, 1945, two days prior to his departure for the Yalta meeting with Stalin and Churchill, President Roosevelt received a 40-page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from high-level Japanese officials.

(The complete text of Trohan's article is in the Winter 1985-86 Journal, pp. 508-512.)

This memo showed that the Japanese were offering surrender terms virtually identical to the ones ultimately accepted by the Americans at the formal surrender ceremony on September 2 -- that is, complete surrender of everything but the person of the Emperor. Specifically, the terms of these peace overtures included:


* Complete surrender of all Japanese forces and arms, at home, on island possessions, and in occupied countries.
* Occupation of Japan and its possessions by Allied troops under American direction.
* Japanese relinquishment of all territory seized during the war, as well as Manchuria, Korea and Taiwan.
* Regulation of Japanese industry to halt production of any weapons and other tools of war.
* Release of all prisoners of war and internees.
* Surrender of designated war criminals.


Is this memorandum authentic?

It was supposedly leaked to Trohan by Admiral William D. Leahy, presidential Chief of Staff.

(See: M. Rothbard in A. Goddard, ed., Harry Elmer Barnes: Learned Crusader [1968], pp. 327f.) Historian Harry Elmer Barnes has related (in "Hiroshima: Assault on a Beaten Foe," National Review, May 10, 1958):

The authenticity of the Trohan article was never challenged by the White House or the State Department, and for very good reason.

After General MacArthur returned from Korea in 1951, his neighbor in the Waldorf Towers, former President Herbert Hoover, took the Trohan article to General MacArthur and the latter confirmed its accuracy in every detail and without qualification.


From The Journal of Historical Review, May-June 1997 (Vol. 16, No. 3), pages 4-11.

Was Hiroshima Necessary?

So was there anything that caused the Americans to accept the same terms in September as what the Japanese had offered as early as January that year?

I look forward to being educated further on that!
 
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I look forward to being educated further on that!

Heh, i am not trying to educate you, i'm not even trying to disprove your theory. I am accepting it for what it is. Most likely it is true. And i have no problem with it.

Backstabbing attacks should not be rewarded with truce when the backstabber gets tired.
 
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Heh, i am not trying to educate you, i'm not even trying to disprove your theory. I am accepting it for what it is. Most likely it is true. And i have no problem with it.

Backstabbing attacks should not be rewarded with truce when the backstabber gets tired.

BS.

I thanked your post till you added the last sentence modifier.

The Japanese delared war on you.

Fight them militarily to the death.

Not kill their old, women, and children, just because for the first and only time in history, you can and no one can retaliate.
 
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BS.

I thanked your post till you added the last sentence modifier.

The Japanese delared war on you.

Fight them militarily to the death.

Not kill their old, women, and children, just because for the first and only time in history, you can and no one can retaliate.

Yes i saw the disapearance of a thank note. I feel cheated now.

Hiroshima was an extremely important military center.
The 2nd Army Headquarters was located in the city and it
commanded the defense of all of Southern Japan. Hiroshima was
also a communications center, a storage point, and an assembly
area for troops. The population of the city at the time of
the attack was approximately 255,000 people.

Nagasaki was of great military value to Japan because of
the industries located in the city. Ordnance, ships, military
equipment, and various other war materials were produced in
Nagasaki and any interruption in the flow of these materials
would prove to be very detrimental to the Japanese war
effort. Nagasaki had a population of approximately 195,000
people.
 
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Don't.

You didn't deserve it.

Hiroshima was an extremely important military center.
The 2nd Army Headquarters was located in the city and it
commanded the defense of all of Southern Japan. Hiroshima was
also a communications center, a storage point, and an assembly
area for troops. The population of the city at the time of
the attack was approximately 255,000 people.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nagasaki was of great military value to Japan because of
the industries located in the city. Ordnance, ships, military
equipment, and various other war materials were produced in
Nagasaki and any interruption in the flow of these materials
would prove to be very detrimental to the Japanese war
effort. Nagasaki had a population of approximately 195,000
people.

Racism And The Atomic Bomb

Anything else you need to be educated about? i imagine med school isnt the place to learn geopolitics and military strategy. So much for military activity on the outskirts like you claimed earlier, eh?

This for illustration...

On the 13th and 14th of February 1945, Dresden was attacked
by 800 bombers belonging to the Allied forces. The first wave of
the attack was from 10-10:25 p.m., the second wave from 1:22-1:54
a.m., and the third wave from 12:15-12:25 p.m.14
The effect of Operation Thunderclap on the morale and will
of the German army and population was devastating. As it was
with Hamburg, the true casualty figures will never be known, but
some sources have estimated the death count to be as high as
250,000-400,000.15 Of the 220,000 dwellings, 90,000 were
totally destroyed and only 45,000 remained undamaged. The
bombing of Dresden proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the
Allies were committed to winning the war and would use any means
at their disposal.

Why don't you wail on these poor sobs too?
 
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