60 years on, 87 Kashmiris want independence

[Shivakumar]

What a joker! Are you intoxicated or did someone give you drugs or something which are making you delusional? Grow up! I have been to your country and I have no idea why you guys have this pathetic idea that your nation can destroy us.

Who is a joker here? Who thinks one Pakistani soldier is equal to ten Indian soldiers?

Woah! Tch...look into your past. We haven't been the only ones to loose land to you. In the 1965 war you lost 2,000 mi² of territory to Pakistan. You could'nt even hold back China. Don't think that you will lose nothing in a direct war with Pakistan.

Still Kashmir is with us.

Your Kashmir is in a weak position my freind... if the Kashmiris were'nt so peaceful minded then they would still be fighting for independence. They just need a war and they'll begin to fight. Also as I said I know many Kashimirs who shifted from Indian Occupied Kashmir. They will be the first to raise arms against India because the rape, torture and killing is fresh in their mind. A war I believe would be enough for them to start fighting and Kashmir will easily be lost.

Then, why do they elect their representatives to the Parliament?

We don't need to beg the P5 no... I think it might be just the opposite and India might be the one screaming for the P5's intervention because I think you are not capable of fighting a war because your internal divisions will break you.

You have the rights to dream.

Lets say that failed, what is Pakistan supposed to do? Let its economy be ruined and millions starve to death? A war in such a situation may only consist of strikes against whatever structures, and in a limited theater, India has constructed to stop the flow of water, with the threat of nuclear war preventing a broader conflict. It may not be as localized as Kargil, but with India being the guilty party in this case, a limited war can be expected to possibly yield significant international pressure on India to suspend its activities.

India will escalate it to a full scale war. Don't think the world will be in favor of Pakistan. The international politics is not based on the moral ground, instead based on mutual benefits. The world will ensure that there will be no war.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Who is a joker here? Who thinks one Pakistani soldier is equal to ten Indian soldiers?

Who thinks that here?

Still Kashmir is with us.

And AK and the NA's are with us, so that does not reflect too well on the "military might" of India now does it.

Then, why do they elect their representatives to the Parliament?

People have to survive in the meantime. Look at the people of Quebec, they participated in the political process in Canada, yet they still harbored a desire for independence.

India will escalate it to a full scale war. Don't think the world will be in favor of Pakistan. The international politics is not based on the moral ground, instead based on mutual benefits. The world will ensure that there will be no war.

Yes yes, but this didn't occur during Kargil did it - when, according to the Indians, the Pakistani forces were being battered and ripped to shreds, world opinion was against us, and the gap between the conventional capabilities of India and Pakistan was probably the biggest in history.

So if you couldn't pull it off then, you are not likely to succeed in the future, as the world becomes even more interconnected and interdependent.

P.S: I just noted that your last statement was a bit contradictory.

"India will escalate it to a full scale war." and "The world will ensure that there will be no war."

So which one is it?

 

[Bull]

Yes yes, but this didn't occur during Kargil did it - when, according to the Indians, the Pakistani forces were being battered and ripped to shreds, world opinion was against us, and the gap between the conventional capabilities of India and Pakistan was probably the biggest in history.

So if you couldn't pull it off then, you are not likely to succeed in the future, as the world becomes even more interconnected and interdependent.

P.S: I just noted that your last statement was a bit contradictory.

"India will escalate it to a full scale war." and "The world will ensure that there will be no war."

So which one is it?

Pakistan was embarassed and isloated in international arena. Its best buddy China too remained silent, its PM was summoned by the big boss, its PM tried to kill the Army chief and in return was forced into exile and a dictator took power. What more is enough!!!

 

[josh21x]

Who thinks that here?
And AK and the NA's are with us, so that does not reflect too well on the "military might" of India now does it.

Hey, we arent here to save the poor souls of Pakistani Kashmir and NA, You are intelligent guy from what i figure, I am sure you know, that India has declined its right to PK and NA.

Yes yes, but this didn't occur during Kargil did it - when, according to the Indians, the Pakistani forces were being battered and ripped to shreds, world opinion was against us, and the gap between the conventional capabilities of India and Pakistan was probably the biggest in history.

So if you couldn't pull it off then, you are not likely to succeed in the future, as the world becomes even more interconnected and interdependent.

Indians have Kashmir, And why not NA and PK, look up my first reply.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistan was embarassed and isloated in international arena. Its best buddy China too remained silent, its PM was summoned by the big boss, its PM tried to kill the Army chief and in return was forced into exile and a dictator took power. What more is enough!!!

I was referring to the possibility of "full scale war" when I talked about "not pulling it off". In the hypothetical scenario that is being discussed here, India is the one that has unilaterally abrogated the Indus Water Treaty, putting millions at the risk of dying from paucity of water as well as potentially destroying the economy of country.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Hey, we arent here to save the poor souls of Pakistani Kashmir and NA, You are intelligent guy from what i figure, I am sure you know, that India has declined its right to PK and NA.

Perhaps recently the "unofficial position" on Kashmir has changed. But Dimensions remarks were from a historical perspective (1965 war etc.) to which you replied that "still Kashmir is with us". I am sure you realize then that the other side of the coin is that AK and the NA's are still with Pakistan, which implies that at a point when India did desire capturing the entire territory, it was unable to do so.

 

[haviZsultan]

Who is a joker here? Who thinks one Pakistani soldier is equal to ten Indian soldiers?

Who said one Pakistani soldier is equal to ten?... are you trying to make up stuff here just to catch my attention? If you are I must admit that it is the usual effect! When Indians meet me they want to please me! They want to make me happy! Now I know that tommarrow you will come to me and tell me that "India does not have an army" or "Kashmir is a seperate country" just to make me happy...

Still Kashmir is with us.

It is, but please continue with the rape, torture and killings and it won't be with you anymore.

Then, why do they elect their representatives to the Parliament?

I dunno what you are saying... Kashmiri representatives in India or Pakistan?

You have the rights to dream.

Once upon a time Pakistan was a dream too... but today the dream has come true and Pakistan is a sovereign state. Pray that the Kashmiris dream for independence does'nt come true!

India will escalate it to a full scale war. Don't think the world will be in favor of Pakistan. The international politics is not based on the moral ground, instead based on mutual benefits. The world will ensure that there will be no war.

Ya, ya... the tiger is always right. Hrrrrr...

Well you said 2 things at once... "there will be no war" and "India will escalate it to full scale war" they contradict each other. So which one will there be "Full-scale war" or "No war"? Please ask your mother and hurry back...

 

[Shivakumar]

Who said one Pakistani soldier is equal to ten?... are you trying to make up stuff here just to catch my attention?

Search this forum, you can find such posts from Pakistanis.

It is, but please continue with the rape, torture and killings and it won't be with you anymore.

Only Pakistanis are saying so.

I dunno what you are saying... Kashmiri representatives in India or Pakistan?

I came to know that most of the rulers of Pakistan are not elected.

Well you said 2 things at once... "there will be no war" and "India will escalate it to full scale war" they contradict each other. So which one will there be "Full-scale war" or "No war"? Please ask your mother and hurry back...

If there is any attack from Pakistan, then India will escalate it to a full scale war. The world know this and never allow the Pakistan to initiate a limited war. You will be forced to negotiate.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Search this forum, you can find such posts from Pakistanis.

You seem to be having the same issue as others who tell Muslims/Arabs/Pakistanis that they should be "ashamed" or somehow "take responsibility" for the actions of people who share their religion/ethnicity/citizenship. I have come across some pretty negative comments about Pakistanis by Indians, but I don't go around waving them in the face of every Indian I have a conversation with as being representative of their views. The only thing generalized comments like that do is poison the discourse.

If there is any attack from Pakistan, then India will escalate it to a full scale war. The world know this and never allow the Pakistan to initiate a limited war. You will be forced to negotiate.

Malay and I went through this already, ofcourse their will be "negotiations". The treaty already exists, it will be violated by India. Cutting off the water supply, threatening millions of lives, to Pakistan can be very easily presented as an "act of war". If anything, putting the threat of war on the table, will make the world force India to return to the treaty. In the case of an Indian refusal, we could always launch strikes solely against the structures that prevent the flow of water into Pakistan. Someone more knowledgeable than me will have to clarify if that will be feasible.

 

[Bull]

You seem to be having the same issue as others who tell Muslims/Arabs/Pakistanis that they should be "ashamed" or somehow "take responsibility" for the actions of people who share their religion/ethnicity/citizenship. I have come across some pretty negative comments about Pakistanis by Indians, but I don't go around waving them in the face of every Indian I have a conversation with as being representative of their views. The only thing generalized comments like that do is poison the discourse.

I did say 'u have to be ashamed' and thats not as an accusation but bcoz i was irritated with the total lack of responsibilty shown by some of the fellow muslims. Most of them still say 'look at Iraq,Afghan, they are killing Muslims everywhere'. And you go and kill some more and take your claim, then dont complain about Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I did say 'u have to be ashamed' and thats not as an accusation but bcoz i was irritated with the total lack of responsibilty shown by some of the fellow muslims. Most of them still say 'look at Iraq,Afghan, they are killing Muslims everywhere'. And you go and kill some more and take your claim, then dont complain about Iraq and Afghanistan.

I understand what you mean. But It is a pretty human reaction to place blame anywhere but at your own doorstep, not one limited to Muslims. You see it happen in the West and in India. The comments touch a nerve with me because I have gotten tired of comments, here in the U.S, about how "Muslims should condemn this act or that act, or take responsibility for what is being done in the name of their religion". I am an individual with my own views, opinions and beliefs - the only thing that I would consider representative of me, and that I would feel ashamed about, would be my country and her actions, not the bigoted, intolerant violent views or actions of some other individuals.

 

[khanbhai]

Shivakumar
there are tons of international articles and documentaries on this raping and killing matter in IOK
one example

Islam Killing of Kashmir - Kashmir Muslims Human Rights Indian Army

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Who said one Pakistani soldier is equal to ten?... are you trying to make up stuff here just to catch my attention?

It was boasted at the time that one Pakistani soldier was equal to four Indian soldiers and so on.
Indo-Pakistan War of 1965

It is of no use us propagating the myth that one Pakistani soldier is equal in strength and courage to five Indian soldiers.
DAWN - Cowasjee Corner; 18 July, 1999

India by Stanley Wolpert. Published: University of California Press, 1990. "India's army... quickly dispelled the popular Pakistani myth that one Muslim soldier was “worth ten Hindus.”

There are enough of such statements on the web.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Perhaps recently the "unofficial position" on Kashmir has changed. But Dimensions remarks were from a historical perspective (1965 war etc.) to which you replied that "still Kashmir is with us". I am sure you realize then that the other side of the coin is that AK and the NA's are still with Pakistan, which implies that at a point when India did desire capturing the entire territory, it was unable to do so.

Agnostic,

If one sees the terrain in Kashmir, one would realise that it is not possible to capture Kashmir in the time limit that is given to India and Pakistan by the powers that be to fight wars. It will require a long protracted campaign, and by that time, both India and Pakistan would get bankrupt!

The economy of either country does not permit such a long protracted campaign!

 

[josh21x]

aND again back on topic

nearly 400 people is adequate enough sample size!!!!!!!!!!!
87% person my foot, then why dont you go to a death penalty inmates, and take survey how many of them consider capital punishment as wrongful.
Disgusting.