60 years on, 87 Kashmiris want independence

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If there was honesty and morality in arbitrating cases, the world would be a different place and so full of peace!

How true. That we can agree on.

 

[Contrarian]

I think that the repercussions from a move such as that would be war.

Lol mate, dont make dramatic statements. Do you really think Pakistan would EVER threaten a conventional war with India? It would be stupidity of the highest order for the Pakistani planners!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Lol mate, dont make dramatic statements. Do you really think Pakistan would EVER threaten a conventional war with India? It would be stupidity of the highest order for the Pakistani planners!

And pray tell me what, in your esteemed opinion, would be the effect of cutting off all water flow into Pakistan? Please look at the context in which that statement was made rather than a knee jerk reaction to the word "war". 60 to 70 percent of our population lives in rural areas and a major part of our GDP is still linked to agriculture. Keeping that in mind, you mean to tell me that cutting off water supplies to Pakistan will not be taken as an existential threat and not be retaliated against as such?

 

[haviZsultan]

I wonder.

Ask those in Kargil!



As soon as the US has used Pakistan and has no use for Pakistan, things will change.

As it is, the west who so vociferously were rooting for Pakistan has changed tack.

If there was honesty and morality in arbitrating cases, the world would be a different place and so full of peace!

Do you wonder? Sunnis or Shia, it does not matter because we are both in this together. Many Shias and Sunnis fought alongside to get "azadi" from India.

They will have use for us because terrorism is still there. And let the west change tack... as long as they are not hostile everything is just fine.

 

[haviZsultan]

Lol mate, dont make dramatic statements. Do you really think Pakistan would EVER threaten a conventional war with India? It would be stupidity of the highest order for the Pakistani planners!

What are you talking about? Go wash your face and come back...

Because a vital subject such as water supply is concerned Pakistan will definately wage war if you guys try such a stupid thing. What do you think, we will just sit back and watch while the Northern areas are lacking water? Also Balochistans supply comes from this place too...

Please don't suggest vague theories on what you can do to gain POC because you simply can't. Infact your hold on IOK is much weaker than ours because many people in IOK do not accept Indian rule while people in POC have accepted Pakistani rule.

 

[khanbhai]

I wonder.

Ask those in Kargil!

say wat iam lost

 

[dabong1]

What about Azad kashmir, do they want independence?

 

[haviZsultan]

Exactly... The army there treats them like animals and they live in fear of them constantly but no action is ever taken about the killings, torture and rape of innocent civilians there. The army often even deprives the kashmiri ppl of their belongings... its really appaling how they are treated... and that is why we shud always keep fighting for their right to have an independent country!

Infact i have a freind whose cousin was raped in kashmir. She says the family went to file a report against the soldier involved but the police did not want to write a report. However, since they knew an officer in the station they got through and the report was written. However no action was ever taken and no hearing took place. Infact she sed the soldier still sees her cousin in the streets and calls her stuff... (stuff that goes against the privacy policy of this site) She also told me that all criminal reports in kashmir go to new delhi 1st and then come back and New Delhi decides on the course of action to take.

She sed that the army treats the people in the villages the worst and thats where most people are confiscated of their property. The army often does that with poor farmers produce for example the army often keeps crates of fruits and vegetables being gathered to be moved to the cities to be sold and keeps some crates for themselves! It costs the farmers a lot.

The arrests are very common she says... any1n that writes anything about the ill-treatment of kashmiris is arrested, any1n who says anything bad abt indian rule is arrested and until recently Kashmiris were not allowed to entertain themselves and marriage celebrations with music were screwed by indian soldiers and many people were arrested in these celebrations.

The murder usually takes place wen sum1n argues too much with a soldier and the next day they are dead. However she told me about a case where 3 indian soldiers did rape, torture and murder. They kidnapped 2 kashmiri women raped them, tortured them for hours and killed them. However it did'nt even come in any paper although all of srinagar had learnt of it. Sum "militants" started sum makeshift newspapers and started circulating them talking about such abuses but a crackdown was done by the army and ppl involved in the publishing and circulating were jailed as the newspaper was seen as anti-indian and no action was taken against the 3 soldiers even though most ppl in the city knew about it. Sum influential people even put pressure on the government to take action but to no avail!

This is the reason why Kashmiris do not feel loyal to india and so is it with minorities in general in india. I am supposed to be half indian... but why do not like to be called that and why do i not feel loyal to india and feel love only for Pakistan? This freind of mine now hates india and went thru all the troubles to get a pakistani passport... Why? Why do many muslims in india take a pakistani passport? Even many sikhs moved from India to Pakistan in 1971-1974. Why? The reasons are that they could not take the constant bias, the suppression and ill-treatment that was meted by the majority and the governments that ruled them. The attitude of the majority towards minorities in india unfortunately still remains the same.

After reading this my brothers please, please, please fight for an independent Kashmir because we cannot let this inhuman treatment continue.(fight does'nt mean physically. in truth the words can set them free! Believe in the power of media!)

I wrote this in another thread but I think that people deserve to know it! It is about Kashmir... and about what one of my freinds born there thinks about it. I have other friends that have countless stories as well! This is only what one person told me...

For those who do not believe these people shifted to Pakistan 3 years back. Pakistan Nationalists helped her get a pakistan passport and settle her family in Islamabad.

The treatment of Kashmiris is the foremost example of Indian bias and maltreatment of minorties. We should not forget that Kashmir is the only muslim dominated region and stands as the main representation of Indias treatment of muslims. Not only Pakistanis but every human being should pressurize India for the freedom of Kashmir as is the right of the people of that land.

The treatment that the majority metes out on the minorities is the reason why many people from minorities do not feel as loyal to India as the majority and is also a reason for many shifting to Pakistan or some other country and taking on foreign passports. It is the constant bias and discrimination that minorities suffer which I believe is the reason for many problems in India. I myself have felt this bias when I was in India as does my own family there.

A nation can always call itself "secular" but it is not secular until all religions are respected and treated equally.

 

[Contrarian]

And pray tell me what, in your esteemed opinion, would be the effect of cutting off all water flow into Pakistan? Please look at the context in which that statement was made rather than a knee jerk reaction to the word "war". 60 to 70 percent of our population lives in rural areas and a major part of our GDP is still linked to agriculture. Keeping that in mind, you mean to tell me that cutting off water supplies to Pakistan will not be taken as an existential threat and not be retaliated against as such?

Because of the simple fact that in a conventional war, even in the most optimistic analysis, Pakistan cannot win against India. What then would be the purpose of the war, if Pakistan cannot take what it needs by force? Pakistan would be pressed to defend its own land in a conventional war, let alone trying to enter India. Remember India has more tanks, arty, men, planes, etc, etc, etc.

The only thing Pakistan would be able to do and most likely do is threaten India with nuclear weapons directly, and not conventional war. India would most likely be concerned about the effects of nuclear war here and would revert back to the original treaty. Obviously, its not as simple as that, if Pakistan uses nukes, then it would mean the end of Pakistan itself, nonetheless its a verry effective threat.

The other thing Pakistan would do simultaneously is go to international court and complain to the P-5 to take immediate action. Since this would be a very serious thing that India did, invariably, the P-5 would put immense pressure on India to stop her actions and/or a security council resolution might be passed ( i doubt that would happen cuz of Russia veto'ing it) but again, the pressure on India would be immense.

 

[Skywalker]

Because of the simple fact that in a conventional war, even in the most optimistic analysis, Pakistan cannot win against India. What then would be the purpose of the war, if Pakistan cannot take what it needs by force? Pakistan would be pressed to defend its own land in a conventional war, let alone trying to enter India. Remember India has more tanks, arty, men, planes, etc, etc, etc.

The only thing Pakistan would be able to do and most likely do is threaten India with nuclear weapons directly, and not conventional war. India would most likely be concerned about the effects of nuclear war here and would revert back to the original treaty. Obviously, its not as simple as that, if Pakistan uses nukes, then it would mean the end of Pakistan itself, nonetheless its a verry effective threat.

The other thing Pakistan would do simultaneously is go to international court and complain to the P-5 to take immediate action. Since this would be a very serious thing that India did, invariably, the P-5 would put immense pressure on India to stop her actions and/or a security council resolution might be passed ( i doubt that would happen cuz of Russia veto'ing it) but again, the pressure on India would be immense.

I can only laugh on these comments..agreed India is a big country with more tanks and more men and more plane and more bla bla bla bla. But are you bigger than United states in temrs of power or tech but look what happened to them in Vietman and after 5/10 years the hostorians will be telling that what happened to them in Iraq and Afghanistan ( America ki godh mein beth jaanay say kissie ghalat fehmi ka shikaat nahien ho jana cheyyeh, as they are famous for back stabbibng).

Nothing against India but please stop loving the fools paradise.

 

[josh21x]

Post gone wrong

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The attitude of US Army to fight a war is totally different to that of the subcontinental soldiers.

Therefore, they are hardly the baseline to compare with!

 

[haviZsultan]

Because of the simple fact that in a conventional war, even in the most optimistic analysis, Pakistan cannot win against India. What then would be the purpose of the war, if Pakistan cannot take what it needs by force? Pakistan would be pressed to defend its own land in a conventional war, let alone trying to enter India. Remember India has more tanks, arty, men, planes, etc, etc, etc.

The only thing Pakistan would be able to do and most likely do is threaten India with nuclear weapons directly, and not conventional war. India would most likely be concerned about the effects of nuclear war here and would revert back to the original treaty. Obviously, its not as simple as that, if Pakistan uses nukes, then it would mean the end of Pakistan itself, nonetheless its a verry effective threat.

The other thing Pakistan would do simultaneously is go to international court and complain to the P-5 to take immediate action. Since this would be a very serious thing that India did, invariably, the P-5 would put immense pressure on India to stop her actions and/or a security council resolution might be passed ( i doubt that would happen cuz of Russia veto'ing it) but again, the pressure on India would be immense.

What a joker! Are you intoxicated or did someone give you drugs or something which are making you delusional? Grow up! I have been to your country and I have no idea why you guys have this pathetic idea that your nation can destroy us.

Woah! Tch...look into your past. We haven't been the only ones to loose land to you. In the 1965 war you lost 2,000 mi² of territory to Pakistan. You could'nt even hold back China. Don't think that you will lose nothing in a direct war with Pakistan.

Your Kashmir is in a weak position my freind... if the Kashmiris were'nt so peaceful minded then they would still be fighting for independence. They just need a war and they'll begin to fight. Also as I said I know many Kashimirs who shifted from Indian Occupied Kashmir. They will be the first to raise arms against India because the rape, torture and killing is fresh in their mind. A war I believe would be enough for them to start fighting and Kashmir will easily be lost.

Yes you have more tanks, artillery, men etc but you also have 2,483,650 sq.km of land more than us... then don't you think that all those tanks, men and artillery would be divided along that huge area of land? Why don't you find out how many soldiers you have in each sq.km of land and find out how many soldiers you have in each square km and compare yours with ours. You guys have much more land to defend do not forget!

About nuclear weapons, we have never threatened you but you have threatened us all the time. You even started heavy production 1998 which forced us to do the same

On Tuesday reports quoted Indian Defence Minister George Fernandes as saying that in any nuclear exchange India would easily absorb a nuclear hit whereas Pakistan would "cease to exist."

I think your George Fernandes should take his pathetic comments somewhere else because every Pakistani soul would be united against India in the case of such a threat while your internal divisions would be enough to drown you. e.g. Kashmir, alienated minorities (especially muslims) etc.

We don't need to beg the P5 no... I think it might be just the opposite and India might be the one screaming for the P5's intervention because I think you are not capable of fighting a war because your internal divisions will break you.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Because of the simple fact that in a conventional war, even in the most optimistic analysis, Pakistan cannot win against India. What then would be the purpose of the war, if Pakistan cannot take what it needs by force? Pakistan would be pressed to defend its own land in a conventional war, let alone trying to enter India. Remember India has more tanks, arty, men, planes, etc, etc, etc.

The only thing Pakistan would be able to do and most likely do is threaten India with nuclear weapons directly, and not conventional war. India would most likely be concerned about the effects of nuclear war here and would revert back to the original treaty. Obviously, its not as simple as that, if Pakistan uses nukes, then it would mean the end of Pakistan itself, nonetheless its a verry effective threat.

The other thing Pakistan would do simultaneously is go to international court and complain to the P-5 to take immediate action. Since this would be a very serious thing that India did, invariably, the P-5 would put immense pressure on India to stop her actions and/or a security council resolution might be passed ( i doubt that would happen cuz of Russia veto'ing it) but again, the pressure on India would be immense.

Good grief Mishra Sahib, you continue to take my statement out of context and a little too literally. One would obviously assume that were the treaty unilaterally terminated, any country in such a situation would ensure that diplomatic options were exhausted before any "military" action was taken, if only to ensure that the world realized who would be responsible for whatever ensued. From a negotiating point of view, the military option should at least be immediately placed on the table to make sure that the world realizes what the consequences of not complying with the treaty could be.

Lets say that failed, what is Pakistan supposed to do? Let its economy be ruined and millions starve to death? A war in such a situation may only consist of strikes against whatever structures, and in a limited theater, India has constructed to stop the flow of water, with the threat of nuclear war preventing a broader conflict. It may not be as localized as Kargil, but with India being the guilty party in this case, a limited war can be expected to possibly yield significant international pressure on India to suspend its activities.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Academic sacked for aiding ‘anti-state’ poll​

By Iftikhar Gilani

NEW DELHI: The Jammu University on Monday sacked a professor for facilitating an opinion poll conducted by an Indian TV channel called CNN-IBN and the Indian Express last month that revealed that around 87 percent of respondents in Kashmir wanted secession from India.

The Shiv Sena and the Jammu National Front asked Vice Chancellor Prof Amitab Mattoo to investigate Chaudhry’s role in the opinion poll. Shiv Sena activists also barged into the VC’s office two week ago demanding immediate action against the professor, who they said was involved in “anti-national activities”.

Reports said that under intense pressure the VC removed Prof Rekha Chaudhry as head of the Political Science Department. The vice chancellor acted on the recommendations of the Social Sciences Department dean, who was assigned to investigate the role of Prof Chaudhry in the much debated opinion poll.

Chaudhry is a known peacenik and an expert on India, Pakistan and Kashmir affairs.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Well this is not very a tolerant and fair act now is it? I was only able to find the Daily Times link to the story though, so any clarifications are welcome.