6 dead in string of attacks in southern Israel
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Safriz
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Bombing Raid Forces 500,000 Israelis To Take Cover - News Story - KVIA El Paso
These people could have been out on streets protesting for financial reforms..noe they are into hiding...gues who is benifiting from this?
These people could have been out on streets protesting for financial reforms..noe they are into hiding...gues who is benifiting from this?
muse
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It's a tragedy, yes, a tragedy, that here on defense.pk, we avoid reasonable conversations with people with whom, we must have reasonable conversations, without playing more righteous, holier than thou - there are none of us with clean hands, though, lets be clear, that does not mean we should excuse abuses - I'm a supporters of diplomatic and commercial relations with Israel, but more so, I am a supporter of the idea that Israel and all her neighbors must be made whole - must be what they can be to each other -- If nothing else, their suffering may bring them together -- and I ran across this piece, and I thought it may contribute to a deeper conversation -- A point I had once made to a Jewish friend was that a Jew cannot be a Jew and be unethical, Can a Muslim be Muslim and be unethical? The answer must always be in the negative:
August 20, 2011
Jews in a Whisper
By ROGER COHEN
London
IN his novel Deception, Philip Roth has the American protagonist say to his British mistress: In England, whenever Im in a public place, a restaurant, a party, the theater, and someone happens to mention the word Jew, I notice that the voice always drops just a little.
She challenges him on this observation, prompting the American, a middle-aged writer, to say, yes, thats how you all say Jew. Jews included.
This prompted a memory: sitting with my mother in an Italian restaurant in the upscale London neighborhood of St. Johns Wood circa 1970 and asking her, after she had pointed to a family in the opposite corner and said they were Jewish, why her voice dropped to a whisper when she said the J word.
Im not whispering, Mom said and went on cutting up her spaghetti so it would fit snugly on a fork.
But she was in that subliminal, awkward, half-apologetic way of many English Jews. My parents were South African immigrants. Their priority was assimilation. They were not about to change their name but nor were they about to rock the boat. I never thought much about why I left the country they adopted and became an American. It happened. One thing in life leads to another. But then, a year ago, I returned.
I was at my sisters place and a lodger of hers, seeing I had a BlackBerry, said, Oh, youve got a JewBerry. Huh? Yeah, a JewBerry. I asked him what he meant. Well, he shrugged, BBM BlackBerry Messenger. I still didnt get it. You know, its free!
Right.
None of this carried malice as far I could see. It was just flotsam carried on the tide of an old anti-Semitism. The affable, insidious English anti-Semitism that stereotypes and snubs, as in the judgment of some gent at the Athenaeum on a Jews promotion to the House of Lords: Well, these people are very clever. Or, as Jonathan Margolis noted in The Guardian, the tipsy country squire commenting on how much he likes the Jewish family who just moved into the village before adding, Of course, everybody else hates them.
Of course.
Jewish identity is an intricate subject and quest. In America, because Ive criticized Israel and particularly its self-defeating expansion of settlements in the West Bank, I was, to self-styled real Jews, not Jewish enough, or even join the club a self-hating Jew. In Britain I find myself exasperated by the muted, muffled way of being a Jew. Get some pride, an inner voice says, speak up!
But its complicated. Britain, with its almost 300,000 Jews and more than two million Muslims, is caught in wider currents of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and political Islam. Traditionally, Englands genteel anti-Semitism has been more of the British establishment than the British working class, whereas anti-Muslim sentiment has been more working-class than establishment.
Now a ferocious anti-Zionism of the left the kind that has called for academic boycotts of Israel has joined the mix, as has some Muslim anti-Semitism. Meanwhile Islamophobia has been fanned by the rightist fabrication of the Eurabia specter the fantasy of a Muslim takeover that sent Anders Breivik on his Norwegian killing spree and feeds far-right European and American bigotry.
Where then should a Jew in Britain who wants to speak up stand? Not with the Knesset members who have met in Israel with European rightists like Filip Dewinter of Belgium in the grotesque belief that they are Israels allies because they hate Muslims. Not with the likes of the Jewish writer Melanie Phillips, whose book Londonistan is a reference for the Islamophobes. Nor with those who, ignoring sinister historical echoes, propose ostracizing Israeli academics and embrace an anti-Zionism that flirts with anti-Semitism.
Perhaps a good starting point is a parallel pointed out to me by Maleiha Malik, a professor of law at Kings College London. A century ago, during the Sidney Street siege of 1911, it was the Jews of Londons East End who, cast as Bolsheviks, were said to be alien extremists. Winston Churchill, no less, argued in 1920 that Jews were part of a worldwide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development.
The lesson is clear: Jews, with their history, cannot become the systematic oppressors of another people. They must be vociferous in their insistence that continued colonization of Palestinians in the West Bank will increase Israels isolation and ultimately its vulnerability.
That not fanning Islamophobia is the task before diaspora Jews. To speak up in Britain also means confronting the lingering, voice-lowering anti-Semitism. When Roths hero returns to New York, he finds hes been missing something. His lover, now distant, asks what.
Jews.
Weve got some of them in England, you know.
Jews with force, Im talking about. Jews with appetite. Jews without shame.
I miss them, too.
August 20, 2011
Jews in a Whisper
By ROGER COHEN
London
IN his novel Deception, Philip Roth has the American protagonist say to his British mistress: In England, whenever Im in a public place, a restaurant, a party, the theater, and someone happens to mention the word Jew, I notice that the voice always drops just a little.
She challenges him on this observation, prompting the American, a middle-aged writer, to say, yes, thats how you all say Jew. Jews included.
This prompted a memory: sitting with my mother in an Italian restaurant in the upscale London neighborhood of St. Johns Wood circa 1970 and asking her, after she had pointed to a family in the opposite corner and said they were Jewish, why her voice dropped to a whisper when she said the J word.
Im not whispering, Mom said and went on cutting up her spaghetti so it would fit snugly on a fork.
But she was in that subliminal, awkward, half-apologetic way of many English Jews. My parents were South African immigrants. Their priority was assimilation. They were not about to change their name but nor were they about to rock the boat. I never thought much about why I left the country they adopted and became an American. It happened. One thing in life leads to another. But then, a year ago, I returned.
I was at my sisters place and a lodger of hers, seeing I had a BlackBerry, said, Oh, youve got a JewBerry. Huh? Yeah, a JewBerry. I asked him what he meant. Well, he shrugged, BBM BlackBerry Messenger. I still didnt get it. You know, its free!
Right.
None of this carried malice as far I could see. It was just flotsam carried on the tide of an old anti-Semitism. The affable, insidious English anti-Semitism that stereotypes and snubs, as in the judgment of some gent at the Athenaeum on a Jews promotion to the House of Lords: Well, these people are very clever. Or, as Jonathan Margolis noted in The Guardian, the tipsy country squire commenting on how much he likes the Jewish family who just moved into the village before adding, Of course, everybody else hates them.
Of course.
Jewish identity is an intricate subject and quest. In America, because Ive criticized Israel and particularly its self-defeating expansion of settlements in the West Bank, I was, to self-styled real Jews, not Jewish enough, or even join the club a self-hating Jew. In Britain I find myself exasperated by the muted, muffled way of being a Jew. Get some pride, an inner voice says, speak up!
But its complicated. Britain, with its almost 300,000 Jews and more than two million Muslims, is caught in wider currents of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and political Islam. Traditionally, Englands genteel anti-Semitism has been more of the British establishment than the British working class, whereas anti-Muslim sentiment has been more working-class than establishment.
Now a ferocious anti-Zionism of the left the kind that has called for academic boycotts of Israel has joined the mix, as has some Muslim anti-Semitism. Meanwhile Islamophobia has been fanned by the rightist fabrication of the Eurabia specter the fantasy of a Muslim takeover that sent Anders Breivik on his Norwegian killing spree and feeds far-right European and American bigotry.
Where then should a Jew in Britain who wants to speak up stand? Not with the Knesset members who have met in Israel with European rightists like Filip Dewinter of Belgium in the grotesque belief that they are Israels allies because they hate Muslims. Not with the likes of the Jewish writer Melanie Phillips, whose book Londonistan is a reference for the Islamophobes. Nor with those who, ignoring sinister historical echoes, propose ostracizing Israeli academics and embrace an anti-Zionism that flirts with anti-Semitism.
Perhaps a good starting point is a parallel pointed out to me by Maleiha Malik, a professor of law at Kings College London. A century ago, during the Sidney Street siege of 1911, it was the Jews of Londons East End who, cast as Bolsheviks, were said to be alien extremists. Winston Churchill, no less, argued in 1920 that Jews were part of a worldwide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development.
The lesson is clear: Jews, with their history, cannot become the systematic oppressors of another people. They must be vociferous in their insistence that continued colonization of Palestinians in the West Bank will increase Israels isolation and ultimately its vulnerability.
That not fanning Islamophobia is the task before diaspora Jews. To speak up in Britain also means confronting the lingering, voice-lowering anti-Semitism. When Roths hero returns to New York, he finds hes been missing something. His lover, now distant, asks what.
Jews.
Weve got some of them in England, you know.
Jews with force, Im talking about. Jews with appetite. Jews without shame.
I miss them, too.
Safriz
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holier than thou eh?
here is the situation....
mass protests in israel on economy..government had no quich fix.
some unidentified gunmen attack israeli nationals on egypt/israel border.the border without concrete walls.
no arrests made despite violating international borders by israeli forces.and immediately israel jumps to conclusion that they were sent by hamas.no evidence what so ever.
hamas catagorically denies involvement in attacks....israel beats their chest and send in airforce to bomb unrelated targets.....
as usual heavy handed tactics result in civilian deaths...again no proof that the 16 palestinians killed were in anyway related to the attacks.
Hamas retaliates to military onslaught by firing rockets...israelis go into bomb shelters...mass .protests for financial reforms stop.
a bit suspicious..isnt it?
here is the situation....
mass protests in israel on economy..government had no quich fix.
some unidentified gunmen attack israeli nationals on egypt/israel border.the border without concrete walls.
no arrests made despite violating international borders by israeli forces.and immediately israel jumps to conclusion that they were sent by hamas.no evidence what so ever.
hamas catagorically denies involvement in attacks....israel beats their chest and send in airforce to bomb unrelated targets.....
as usual heavy handed tactics result in civilian deaths...again no proof that the 16 palestinians killed were in anyway related to the attacks.
Hamas retaliates to military onslaught by firing rockets...israelis go into bomb shelters...mass .protests for financial reforms stop.
a bit suspicious..isnt it?
500
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First of all protests were very peaceful and did not threaten the government in any way at all. They did not demand fall of the government even. And according to all pols government will win elections again.
And again again and again. It were Palestinians who started this mess by mudrering 8 Israelis. Israeli reaction was very minor.
Yesterday night Palestinians fired over 10 rockets at Israeli towns killing two civilians. Israel did not retaliate. What did the Palestinians? - They continued to shell civilians. Over 8 rockets fired this morning. One rocket hit the school (but no one was killed becvause of summer vacations). Israel will retaliate now and then again you will whine and blame Israel.
This reminds me Cast Lead operation. Israel was asking was cease fire, Hamas was laughting and shelling Israeli civilians. Then finally Israel retaliated and all Israel haters started to blame Israel.
Safriz
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^^^usual sympathy gathering stunt?
not you..israeli government.
protests may be peaceful.but if half a million people take to the streets on any issue it is a big defaming for the government and not easy to vontrol.at any time the situation could have gone out of hand.
why the government will win again? because israelis are now star struck by the sper hero yahoo...who killed "terrorists" within 24 hours and has an iron fist....
about firing rockets..that started after air raids...and hamas is an elected government who has to right to retaliate...
when they have no doubt that the planes bombing them are IAF.
Unlike the israelis who have no proof of linking attacks to hamas and gaza strip..just assumptions.
not you..israeli government.
protests may be peaceful.but if half a million people take to the streets on any issue it is a big defaming for the government and not easy to vontrol.at any time the situation could have gone out of hand.
why the government will win again? because israelis are now star struck by the sper hero yahoo...who killed "terrorists" within 24 hours and has an iron fist....
about firing rockets..that started after air raids...and hamas is an elected government who has to right to retaliate...
when they have no doubt that the planes bombing them are IAF.
Unlike the israelis who have no proof of linking attacks to hamas and gaza strip..just assumptions.
Safriz
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http://www.jewishjournal.com/israel/article/hamas_denies_responsibility_for_israel_attack_20110818/
500
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Again you ignore the fact that Israel was attacked. Maybe its government sent these terrorists?
No one is struck. On contrary most of Israelis are angry now because of his lack of action against the rocket fire.
Shelling civilian neighborhoods is pure coward terrrorism - nothing else.
Israeli intelligence knew about the comming attack. Thats why all these top terrorists gathered in one room and were eliminated immediately. Thats why Israeli forces reacted fast to infiltration and there were "only" 8 killed.
But no one excpected that attack will come from Egyptian outpost, however. That was surprise. Also unfortunately Israeli government did not strike those gathered terrorist commanders preemptively. Attack could be avoided.
muse
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Yes, I am sure they can be taken at their word --- but a sitting government in Israel ought not be taken at their word??
You already start from a position where you admit bias - it's a unique way to forward objectivity.
Safriz
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no its not bias.....Hamas is as much an elected government as israel.....if they as a government deny involvement in attack then as "peace loving neighbours" israel should have given it credibility.
the link i posted was an israeli website ... so no i am not being biased.
500
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Of course they deny reponsibility, because they are coward terrorists.
Please jdme for goodness sake STAY ON TOPIC. Your inability to stay on topic on this and numerous other threads defies reason. For the avoidance of doubt this thread is about 6 dead in string of attacks.
btw congratulations on achieving 1000 off thread posts without getting banned.
Safriz
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NGO workers in Gaza get ready for evacuation - FOCUS Information Agency
alestine Refugees will stay in the region.
Accordingto information of local media, the Israeli authorities
have decided to open only one border checkpoint to the Gaza
Strip - Kerem Shalom, for four hours for supplying provisions in
the Palestinian territory.
sure enough israel worsening an existing humaniarian crisis due to their paranoia and inability to safeguard their citizens....
no matter how many bombs IAF drop later....terroristscalways have it their way.
alestine Refugees will stay in the region.
Accordingto information of local media, the Israeli authorities
have decided to open only one border checkpoint to the Gaza
Strip - Kerem Shalom, for four hours for supplying provisions in
the Palestinian territory.
sure enough israel worsening an existing humaniarian crisis due to their paranoia and inability to safeguard their citizens....
no matter how many bombs IAF drop later....terroristscalways have it their way.
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