5th generation fighter for U.A.E

[Awesome]

UAE is the most safest place on Earth (In terms of crimes, terrorism, war). You know the saying, "If you want peace, prepare for war".

 

[Awesome]

One of the good things about a forum like this is that most people here try to dig a little bit deeper than the headlines.

If Abu Dhabi has more than 1 trillion dollars parked in their sovereign fund, how is the $80B debt of Dubai, of which Dubai World's debt is only $59B, an issue for the UAE? Do you think Abu Dhabi will let the emirate of Dubai go bankrupt? If you do, then I marvel at your innocence.

Dubai is not bankrupt, but they will take advantage of the current economic climate to renegotiate debt with creditors. This is just sensible management. Abu Dhabi has in the past and will continue to provide monetary support. The fact that the west is enjoying this piece of news and it is hence getting a lot of airtime should not confuse you as to the reality.

You have to understand UAE politics of why Abu Dhabi won't interfere. The emirates operate independently on 99% of the things. While the news about Dubai's debt is spreading around, Abu Dhabi is said to have $400 Bn in spare change.

 

[zraver]

Even if they can, would it be a responsible move especially in the absence of any actual enemies?

The UAE is involved in a very tense standoff with Iran. Iran has occupied the Tunds and refused to take it before binding arbitration and has threatened to 1. provoke a Shia uprising in the emirates, 2. bombard it with ballistic missiles since it has 2 US military bases on its soil.

 

[MZUBAIR]

So what would happen to UAE Mirage 2000. Perhaps another race is on between IAF and PAF for acquiring them.

If they offered Mirage 2K on cheap amount then PAF shld consider it to increase quantity otherwise its batter to invest on JF-17 which is far batter then Mirage 2K.

IAF will never buy them ther are already on track to buy 4.5th or 5th generation fighters. MRCA, LCA, MCA and 5th generation joint fighter PAK-FA (Russia and India).

 

[MZUBAIR]

i think UAE is having f16 block60 which are the best of f16 so why it need f35

They are not going to ground F-16, they are grounding Mirage 2K. They need its replacment.

Well if u compare F-16 Block 60 with F-35 , I must say that F-35A has some similarities with F-16 but it would be still considered far ahead then F-16 Block 60 technology wise.

F-35 hav advance sensor and stealthy capabilities.
AN/APG-81 AESA-radar incluses Missile warning system, reports missile launch locations, detects and tracks approaching aircraft spherically around the F-35, and replaces traditional night vision goggles for night operations and navigation, The F-35 will be the first jet fighter that has sensor fusion that combines both radio frequency and IR tracking for continuous target detection and identification in all directions which is shared via MADL to other platforms without compromising their low observability

A cockpit speech-recognition system (Direct Voice Input) is planned to improve the pilot's ability to operate the aircraft over the current-generation interface. (May be its also integrated in F-16 Block 60)

Durable, low-maintenance stealth technology with new and high manevariability

There would be no need for refulink tankers. Refuling tankers would be mounted inner surface

Lift up without the use of run way using lift fan


Large number of external and internal 5th generation weapons ...with manevarability

Bottom line is that UAE replacing Mirage 2K. F-16 block 60 will stay 20 years more.

 

[Machoman]

Not bad UAE a nice combination of Aircraft already.

Mirage 2000
F-16 Block 60
Rafael

and now Jfs-35. cool keep going.

 

[gogbot]

Not bad UAE a nice combination of Aircraft already.

Mirage 2000
F-16 Block 60
Rafael

and now Jfs-35. cool keep going.

And they plan on getting rid of those Mirage aircraft dont they.

They probably have one of the most advanced air-forces in the region.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

i have a question, the big Weapons like JSOW, JASSM & all external weapons do increase RCS of F-35 so how will it remain 'invisible to radar' during strike missions??

it will probably have a RCS which will be detectable by Radars e.g.
Irbis of SU-35BM

Irbis-E​

The Irbis, also known as Irbis-E, is an advanced X-band multi-mode phased array radar system developed by Tikhomirov NIIP for the Su-35 multi-purpose fighter aircraft. NIIP developed the new radar based on the Bars radar system provided to Su-30MKI/MKM/MKA aircraft. Its development started in 2004 and the first radar prototype entered flight tests onboard an Su-30MK2 aircraft acting as a test bed in early 2007. The resulting radar system will provide air-to-air, air-to-sea and air-to-ground (ground mapping, Doppler beam sharpening and Synthetic Aperture radar modes) modes with improved performance in intense clutter environments compared to Bars. In addition, Irbis has been designed to detect low- and super-low-observable/stealth airborne threats.

The Irbis multifunctional radar employs a 900mm passive phased array antenna mounted on a hydraulic actuator. With electronically steering, it can scan sectors of 60 degrees in both azimuth and elevation. Using the hydraulic actuator (mechanical steering), the azimuth coverage boosts to 120 degrees. It can detect and track up to 30 airborne targets with a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of three square meters at ranges of 400 kilometers using track-while-scan mode while engaging two targets with semi-active radar homing missiles or up to eight targets with active radar homing missiles. In the air-to-surface mode the Irbis provides clues allowing to attack a surface target with precision-guided weapons while scanning the horizon searching for airborne threats that can be engaged using active radar homing missiles.

Tikhomirov NIIP has provided the ability to spot super-low-observable targets with RCS = 0.01 square meters at ranges out to 90 kilometers. This capability might allow Su-35 aircraft to engage cruise missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles as well as fifth generation stealth fighter aircrafts such as the F/A-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II. NIIP and GRPZ will take care of the Irbis production with the first radar system slated for installation on the Su-35 in August 2007.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

One of the good things about a forum like this is that most people here try to dig a little bit deeper than the headlines.

If Abu Dhabi has more than 1 trillion dollars parked in their sovereign fund, how is the $80B debt of Dubai, of which Dubai World's debt is only $59B, an issue for the UAE? Do you think Abu Dhabi will let the emirate of Dubai go bankrupt? If you do, then I marvel at your innocence.

Dubai is not bankrupt, but they will take advantage of the current economic climate to renegotiate debt with creditors. This is just sensible management. Abu Dhabi has in the past and will continue to provide monetary support. The fact that the west is enjoying this piece of news and it is hence getting a lot of airtime should not confuse you as to the reality.

Every one is writing up IOU

no one has real cash they all are passing I owe you notes to each other eventually they will realize the money ran out and then kaputs

Dubai will be for Sale - highest bidder gets it

Didn't France just opened a military base in UAE , guess France can be its care taker when the Sheikhs migrate to Britain , since they will run off with all cash and public will be hunting them down

 

[zraver]

i have a question, the big Weapons like JSOW, JASSM & all external weapons do increase RCS of F-35 so how will it remain 'invisible to radar' during strike missions??

it will probably have a RCS which will be detectable by Radars e.g.
Irbis of SU-35BM

You start the war on internal stores leaving bombing to older platforms that operate well behind the gen 5 aircraft that are popping enemy radars and fighters. By the time the F-35 is carrying external ordnance enemy fighters are a minor threat.

 

[gambit]

i have a question, the big Weapons like JSOW, JASSM & all external weapons do increase RCS of F-35 so how will it remain 'invisible to radar' during strike missions??

it will probably have a RCS which will be detectable by Radars e.g.
Irbis of SU-35BM

In radar detection, nothing is 'invisible', not even our 'stealth' aircrafts and the US never made such claim.

Tikhomirov NIIP has provided the ability to spot super-low-observable targets with RCS = 0.01 square meters at ranges out to 90 kilometers. This capability might allow Su-35 aircraft to engage cruise missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles as well as fifth generation stealth fighter aircrafts such as the F/A-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II. NIIP and GRPZ will take care of the Irbis production with the first radar system slated for installation on the Su-35 in August 2007.

That is outright misleading but should be expected from the Russians.

The official 'unofficial' standard for fighter aircraft size radar detection is between 200-300 km for a one meter square target, meaning that target will BECOME one meter square at that range. If anything, the 200-300 km is rather generous, effective target RCS usability is more like around 150-180 km. Usability mean the radar is able to maintain tracking of that target. As the target approaches, then its RCS increases to larger than one meter square.

The distance/power/frequency relationship is one that is often neglected whenever RCS is mentioned in just about all discussions. So when the F-35 is right in one's face, its RCS will be pretty much its physical dimensions, but at 200-300 km, the radar's signal has lost a considerable amount of its power due to distance traveled, that most of whatever left that actually impact the aircraft is absorbed and any reflection off the aircraft is classified by the radar as 'clutter'. That is how RCS figures like .0001-.0002m2 for the F-22 and the F-35 came to be. Without 'stealth' features like planforming and RAM, the same radar energy level will create a target RCS of 1-5m2 or greater.

So did the Russians lied when they said this: '...spot super-low-observable targets with RCS = 0.01 square meters at ranges out to 90 kilometers.' ? Not really a lie but partial truth. Yes...It is POSSIBLE, not definitive, that the F-35 will BECOME 0.01m2 at around 90km, but that distance is within AMRAAM-C's kill range. Not only that, this partial truth claim is contingent upon a head-on engagement which every pilot will try to avoid. So if a flight of F-35 with no external stores is alerted in anyway to the presence of a flight of Russian Suckhy junks, they will hit low altitude to get lost in ground clutter, get behind the Suckhys, then get so close that the enemy will not have time to maneuver against the AMRAAM.

 

[paritosh]

In radar detection, nothing is 'invisible', not even our 'stealth' aircrafts and the US never made such claim.

That is outright misleading but should be expected from the Russians.

The official 'unofficial' standard for fighter aircraft size radar detection is between 200-300 km for a one meter square target, meaning that target will BECOME one meter square at that range. If anything, the 200-300 km is rather generous, effective target RCS usability is more like around 150-180 km. Usability mean the radar is able to maintain tracking of that target. As the target approaches, then its RCS increases to larger than one meter square.

The distance/power/frequency relationship is one that is often neglected whenever RCS is mentioned in just about all discussions. So when the F-35 is right in one's face, its RCS will be pretty much its physical dimensions, but at 200-300 km, the radar's signal has lost a considerable amount of its power due to distance traveled, that most of whatever left that actually impact the aircraft is absorbed and any reflection off the aircraft is classified by the radar as 'clutter'. That is how RCS figures like .0001-.0002m2 for the F-22 and the F-35 came to be. Without 'stealth' features like planforming and RAM, the same radar energy level will create a target RCS of 1-5m2 or greater.

So did the Russians lied when they said this: '...spot super-low-observable targets with RCS = 0.01 square meters at ranges out to 90 kilometers.' ? Not really a lie but partial truth. Yes...It is POSSIBLE, not definitive, that the F-35 will BECOME 0.01m2 at around 90km, but that distance is within AMRAAM-C's kill range. Not only that, this partial truth claim is contingent upon a head-on engagement which every pilot will try to avoid. So if a flight of F-35 with no external stores is alerted in anyway to the presence of a flight of Russian Suckhy junks, they will hit low altitude to get lost in ground clutter, get behind the Suckhys, then get so close that the enemy will not have time to maneuver against the AMRAAM.

What is planforming?
and to detect VLO targets like the JSF...wouldn't it be more beneficial to set the clutter threshold a bit low so as not to mask what otherwise would be discarded as atmospheric clutter or an ambiguous range detection so that a VLO target at an unambiguous range might get detected?
for this you need to know what you are dealing with...and that the VLO target doesn't dive down to get entirely masked in the shadow of ground clutter...
I know that by lowering the clutter threshold...the DSP system would be flooded with targets...but multiple prfs would identify static clutter from a VLO a/c...wouldn't it?

 

[nwmalik]

considering the present economic situation in UAE, plans may be changed.

 

[Ghazy]

There is a news that Abu Dhabi will step in to rescue its neighbor state

The Press Association: Abu Dhabi works on rescue deal

And UAE central bank has also intervened

UAE central bank guarantees Dubai banks' debt to head off crash | Business | guardian.co.uk

UAE central bank to provide liquidity to domestic & foreign banks - International Business - Biz - The Times of India

So they could really go for F-35 after 2 or 3 years because F-35 won't be available before and by that time Dubai crisis will be handled.

 

[alikazmi007]

Dude it's like they have a big pile of money and they're not just sure how to torch it to fire......