5th Gen Aircraft Maybe Impotent Against A Large Enemy W/out A Complimentary Heavy Strike Aircraft

[Hamartia Antidote]

The air battle scenario on youtube of the F22 fighter aircraft getting help from BVR equipped B1 bombers that @Aamir Hussain posted over here should have been an eye opener for pakistanis---the role and objective of the aircraft doing what it did was clear as daylight.

link?

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Can you really take a US based conops and start arguing what Pakistan can or cannot do?

Kindly name the COWARDS and INDECISIVE MANAGERS of PAF, so aloof people like me are enlightened.

 

[MastanKhan]

Can you really take a US based conops and start arguing what Pakistan can or cannot do?

Kindly name the COWARDS and INDECISIVE MANAGERS of PAF, so aloof people like me are enlightened.

Hi,

1965---Asghar Khan calls indian chief and says if your air force don't fight I will order mine not to.

before 71 war---Bhutto asks the air force have the B57 canberra electronic surveillance aircraft fly over the kashmir and surrounding areas----air chief refused

71 war---report of missile boats being towed towards karachi---pia pilots reports to the tower---the tower calls paf----the coward base commander yessir---instead of flying an immediate mission to check out---calls the air chief---who orders to stand down---none of you traitors had the ballz to execute him----

F16 drama----turning down the hawkeye surveillance aircraft---paf says it is not worth it----oh it was---.

The mirages 3/5 were good enough for what russia was throwing at them in afghanistan----.

Paf pilots bragging about shooting down worthless russian aircraft and then strutting around----

going for the 2nd batch of F16's with cash and that also against the advise of many----sanctions on F16's

The mirage 2k purchase fiasco---the supposed buyer---was too honest---

no go with the m2ks----

sanctions come off---still the air force not ready to buy---says that there is no war with india so there is no reason to get an aircraft-----kept up the drama for 4 years---then stopped the purchase of a potent aircraft in 2005---stating earthquake


karachi base under attack---half a billion dollars planes destroyed---the base commander was had marriarge hall at the base---base security what????instead of being executed by a firing squad????

another base attacked ay kamra---another 1 /2 billion loss---another coawrd base commander---if it was not for one soldier---all the assets would have been destroyed---/

Would not recommend nishan a haider for that soldier who saved the base---but did recommend nishan a haider for the pilot who stopped his plane on the taxi way where he was not supposed to and let an illegal into the aircraft

the jf 17 drama----failed to recognize the problems in france regarding the electronics package---a major setback for the jf17 program---

another base attack in peshawar---air force not ready to protect its assets----.

the air chief brags on flying a mission killing 30 taliban---the taliban strike back and kill a minimum of 30 air force personal---what and idiot of an acm---.

After the first base attack---the base commander---the base security incharge and westernn command should have been executed by a firing squad

after the attack on kamra---the base commander----base security officer----the central command the air chief should have been executed by the firing squad---same after the thrid attack at peshawar----.

I guess the thrid attack would not have happend---because every body would have been on their toes after the first executions---.

15 years since the sanctions came off---a miniscule number of aircraft procured

the farud in the SA missile systems---

the mindset of the air force---' we are a defensive air force "---a big lie to the nation---

this fraud incompetence treachery is on the surface---the insider stuff---you would know better---.


It is just like the LAPD---the Los Angeles Police Dept----they are fcking butchers---will slaughter you in a heart beat---but then they have their spokes personal as well---nice and kind and genetle---" please show us where we went wrong " we are folowing dept policies---.

This frigging paf----one show in 1965---and has been milking the nation since then---.

link?

 

[Quwa]

If possible - financially and politically - the PAF ought to go for Su-35 and Su-32 (aka export Su-34). Going for both would enable the PAF to build two very different mission profiles whilst still saving on maintenance costs.

The Su-35 could serve as the heavyweight fighter needed for covering the maritime sphere, and the Su-32/34 could operate as the long-range strike fighter-bomber (and possibly even dedicated EW/ECM platform). In fact, the Su-34s could be allocated to serve with Air Force Strategic Command as a real assault platform, which in turn can be configured to carry 12,000 kg in externally stored munitions. That is basically 10 Ra'ad ALCM.

Alternatively, one could outfit the Su-32/34 with two powerful radars (one in front and the other in the rear), which could let it serve as a "mini-AEW&C." Or perhaps add dedicated EW and ECM pods alongside ARMs, for SEAD and DEAD missions.

Political issues aside, financing is a problem. Pakistan's best shot would be to actually reduce the proportion of its budget going into debt-servicing. A stronger fiscal portfolio could give the Russians enough confidence to sell the Flanker as well as Fullback on term financing. These are new platforms, hence they will be in production for some time, which might allow the PAF to make small incremental purchases over the medium to long-term as well.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

Hi,

In a manner you are right----but again---with the right package and imminent threat to its under belly---there is a lot that you can do to the enemy---.


Just saw Twelve O'Clock High last night---starring Gregory Peck---. The day they bombed the BALL BEARING FACTORY in Germany---that was the begining of the end of the 2nd world war.

The mentality and utility has to be the same----. In a conventional war---if pakistan targets the right areas---it can smash india to a pulp----we will survive a conventional war---but indian economy will be decimated for eons to come.

Why do you think that they scream and holler out so loud that they will do this and they will do that to us---why is there so much yelling and shouting from their side---it is a tactical move to scare us----because they know that they are extremely vulnerable at certain places.

And if our air force was not led by COWARDS and INDECISIVE MANAGERS---it would be a different ball game.

I am afraid your belief in the potency of conventional bombers against the enemy's economy is highly exaggerated. As you, I am not speaking of fighter-bombers in battle but deep penetration bombers as strategic weapons against an economy, bombing economic targets.

As recounted in multiple analyses and histories after the fact it has been shown that the impact of the allied WWII bombing campaign - the Americans by day and the Britishers by night - on the German economy was significantly overestimated in comparison to the efforts put in, despite the grand claims of their air forces at the time. At best the grand bombing campaigns wore down the civilian populations' nerves (Dresden.being a classic example).

Even your movie example of the bombing of the ball bearing factory is based on pure melodrama. In real life the Schweinfurt - Regensburg bombing missions degraded the the allied attacking air force by an unacceptable 25% and barely made a dent on the German economy. Although badly hit, the factories were up and running weeks later. From a strategic perspective the mission was a failure.

Unless your airforce uses nukes against us, conventional bombing is unlikely to accomplish much.

 

[Zarvan]

If possible - financially and politically - the PAF ought to go for Su-35 and Su-32 (aka export Su-34). Going for both would enable the PAF to build two very different mission profiles whilst still saving on maintenance costs.

The Su-35 could serve as the heavyweight fighter needed for covering the maritime sphere, and the Su-32/34 could operate as the long-range strike fighter-bomber (and possibly even dedicated EW/ECM platform). In fact, the Su-34s could be allocated to serve with Air Force Strategic Command as a real assault platform, which in turn can be configured to carry 12,000 kg in externally stored munitions. That is basically 10 Ra'ad ALCM.

Alternatively, one could outfit the Su-32/34 with two powerful radars (one in front and the other in the rear), which could let it serve as a "mini-AEW&C." Or perhaps add dedicated EW and ECM pods alongside ARMs, for SEAD and DEAD missions.

Political issues aside, financing is a problem. Pakistan's best shot would be to actually reduce the proportion of its budget going into debt-servicing. A stronger fiscal portfolio could give the Russians enough confidence to sell the Flanker as well as Fullback on term financing. These are new platforms, hence they will be in production for some time, which might allow the PAF to make small incremental purchases over the medium to long-term as well.

You said exactly what I am saying if our budget allows or we get a defense package from middle east than we should and must go for one Air Superiority Fighter like SU-35 or EuroFighter and one bomber like SU-34 or JH-7B but our defense budget

 

[ghauri05]

one question?
We all know PAF needs a heavy strike fighter....but main issue is money....on many other threads the possible solutions are also discussed...
I have a thought....why don't we ask China to provide J-seires heavies....i know..Russia won't allow it...but that's where the diplomacy comes in....On one hand we are chest thumping..that are relation with Russiad particularly..defence relations are improving..then why can't we give it a shot....and through proper diplomatic channel ...we persuade russia to make J-series available for Pak...
China is a reliable supplier....so if efforts are made..it can happen

 

[chandrak]

Hi,

In a manner you are right----but again---with the right package and imminent threat to its under belly---there is a lot that you can do to the enemy---.


Just saw Twelve O'Clock High last night---starring Gregory Peck---. The day they bombed the BALL BEARING FACTORY in Germany---that was the begining of the end of the 2nd world war.

The mentality and utility has to be the same----. In a conventional war---if pakistan targets the right areas---it can smash india to a pulp----we will survive a conventional war---but indian economy will be decimated for eons to come.

Why do you think that they scream and holler out so loud that they will do this and they will do that to us---why is there so much yelling and shouting from their side---it is a tactical move to scare us----because they know that they are extremely vulnerable at certain places.

And if our air force was not led by COWARDS and INDECISIVE MANAGERS---it would be a different ball game.

You are right. Here in india some peoples(not majority) try to persuade the higher officials or politicians to not tolerate you guys anymore and attack with full potential no matters if anything is left in end or not(because they say its not safe either for them or their childrens if mad dogs are roaming in your neighbour).
But still some good people (MAJORITY) here in india know the consequences of war and the effect of war on upcoming generation(both pak n india).they still believe war is not an option and have faith in you guys that someday we can live peacefully with each other.but u guys keep proving them wrong and thats y you hear such voice in india against you.
Last point just think calm minded- if india means to destroy you guys why not did it or why not now(given india has much larger stronger forces and weapons this time), why is it waiting??( given india knows that with time your militry and arsenal will keep growing and once you ll have enough ,you will attack on it.) So why india is waiting to attack you guys for a time when your capabilities will be more devastating and destructing and cause more loss to india????
Because IT DONT WANT TO. IT WANT TO LIVE IN PEACE WITH YOU GUYS BUT KEEP NOT INTERFERING IN EACH OTHER MATTERS. ITS GOOD FOR BOTH .

 

[Sully3]

You are right. Here in india some peoples(not majority) try to persuade the higher officials or politicians to not tolerate you guys anymore and attack with full potential no matters if anything is left in end or not(because they say its not safe either for them or their childrens if mad dogs are roaming in your neighbour).
But still some good people (MAJORITY) here in india know the consequences of war and the effect of war on upcoming generation(both pak n india).they still believe war is not an option and have faith in you guys that someday we can live peacefully with each other.but u guys keep proving them wrong and thats y you hear such voice in india against you.
Last point just think calm minded- if india means to destroy you guys why not did it or why not now(given india has much larger stronger forces and weapons this time), why is it waiting??( given india knows that with time your militry and arsenal will keep growing and once you ll have enough ,you will attack on it.) So why india is waiting to attack you guys for a time when your capabilities will be more devastating and destructing and cause more loss to india????
Because IT DONT WANT TO. IT WANT TO LIVE IN PEACE WITH YOU GUYS BUT KEEP NOT INTERFERING IN EACH OTHER MATTERS. ITS GOOD FOR BOTH .

Ridiculous comment

1) Not to tolerate us no more Haha. Why don't u go ahead and try for a all out war and see what happens. These politicians and Military men from India need to be honest to their nation and tell them the reality that South Asia will become a nuclear wasteland if India or Pakistan decide to go for an all out war. The Rafeals and the MK's are no good when they are nuclear bombs going over head.

2) None of the Indian army or politician ever bring up the real fear they have that what if one day china and Pakistan gang up and attack us, what are the possibilities of this happening and what will happen to the county if both Pakistan and China decide to attack India.

3) Indians need to realise this very very quickly, Pakistan has nothing to loose and India has everything to loose right now. Pakistanis are naturally very emotional because they have had to fight to get their independent state, this is something Indians don't realise. Pakistanis rather let off every single nuclear warhead in India before they even consider letting Indian army take control of Kashmir or any parts of pakistan.

If u look in to a full blown war in South Asia as an outsider, you quickly realise the only county that is going to come off much worse after a war is India.

 

[randomradio]

we will survive a conventional war---but indian economy will be decimated for eons to come.

You don't have the firepower. US couldn't decimate the Iraqis either. With all the destruction in Iraq, it is still a bigger economy than Pakistan today. Iraq's per capita income in 2002 was $800. It reduced to $500 in 2003 and then climbed back up to $900 in 2004.

PAF doesn't even have a fraction of the firepower needed for doing that. And the areas that PAF can cover are mainly agrarian economies, Punjab, Rajasthan, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh and Kashmir. If you can't hit Delhi, Maharashtra and the 3 main South Indian states, you won't put a dent on the Indian economy. Only Gujarat is open to attacks, but even then the IA/IAF/IN presence in that region is very heavy. And I don't think PA/PAF have aggressive plans in those areas.

In case you hit important areas in the Delhi-Mumbai corridor, the factories will just shift base to another area of the country, like the Mumbai-Pune, or Bangalore-Chennai corridors.

the air chief brags on flying a mission killing 30 taliban---the taliban strike back and kill a minimum of 30 air force personal---what and idiot of an acm---.

Can I have more information please?

 

[Sully3]

You don't have the firepower. US couldn't decimate the Iraqis either. With all the destruction in Iraq, it is still a bigger economy than Pakistan today. Iraq's per capita income in 2002 was $800. It reduced to $500 in 2003 and then climbed back up to $900 in 2004.

PAF doesn't even have a fraction of the firepower needed for doing that. And the areas that PAF can cover are mainly agrarian economies, Punjab, Rajasthan, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh and Kashmir. If you can't hit Delhi, Maharashtra and the 3 main South Indian states, you won't put a dent on the Indian economy. Only Gujarat is open to attacks, but even then the IA/IAF/IN presence in that region is very heavy. And I don't think PA/PAF have aggressive plans in those areas.

In case you hit important areas in the Delhi-Mumbai corridor, the factories will just shift base to another area of the country, like the Mumbai-Pune, or Bangalore-Chennai corridors.



Can I have more information please?

Comparing PetroDollars economy to Pakistans is very unfair.

Iraq economy is based around oil, no wonder why its done well since Sadams left.

 

[randomradio]

Unless your airforce uses nukes against us, conventional bombing is unlikely to accomplish much.

Even this depends on the capacity and number of bombs dropped on economic targets.

Hitting a place like BSE with a nuke won't do much except kill a lot of people and destroy a beautiful building. The data is protected in underground data centers located in multiple locations. All stock transactions will become void and the stock market will be closed indefinitely until normalcy is established in a safer location.

Business enterprises are spread out over multiple locations over large areas. A 100 odd nukes are not enough either. You needs tens of thousands for the attack to have long term effects. And long term would mean about 5-10 years. After that the economy will go back to normal because people still plan on living after that.

If u look in to a full blown war in South Asia as an outsider, you quickly realise the only county that is going to come off much worse after a war is India.

Why?

 

[gambit]

Even your movie example of the bombing of the ball bearing factory is based on pure melodrama. In real life the Schweinfurt - Regensburg bombing missions degraded the the allied attacking air force by an unacceptable 25% and barely made a dent on the German economy. Although badly hit, the factories were up and running weeks later. From a strategic perspective the mission was a failure.

That mission was not to do damages to the German economy but to retard the production of war machines that requires ball bearings.

 

[randomradio]

Comparing PetroDollars economy to Pakistans is very unfair.

Iraq economy is based around oil, no wonder why its done well since Sadams left.

The jump back to $900 had nothing to do with oil. They needed more time to get back to selling oil.

The economy bounced back due to reconstruction and aid.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

That mission was not to do damages to the German economy but do retard the production of war machines that requires ball bearings.

Economy in this context also means, and in fact back then primarily was, a war economy. Plus to the best of my knowledge the ball bearings were also used in commercial production. However, either way that wasn't the main thrust of what I had stated.