5 common myths about Islam Propagated by Media

[Dubious]

1st please be clear whether I should read the letter by "scholars" or not? @Akheilos complained that people do not read the letter. You are complaining that I read the letter but not islam. And both of you say that those who have read islam and do violent acts have "misunderstood" islam. If the logic does not end somewher, it is called "circular logic".

Brilliantly twisting the words or lack of comprehension (as you kept pointing at me?)

 

[Dubious]

thanks. But there was nothing brilliant about it.

Sarcasm is not something you get...I see

did @Pakistani shaheens not say that people do listen to scholars but do not listen to islam (in his words: "The sole problem is that the people like you listen to what scholars and media says but never bother to hear what islam says about it")

In CONTEXT....The scholars he meant were not those who wrote the letter...if you were lost it would not kill to ask to clarify!

and, of-course, both of you would deny that those who have read islam and still do violence in its name, have "misunderstood" islam? wont you?

Not only us 2...but also the letter...

my statement was as simple as 1+1=2. No twisting there. Nicht. Nada.

Yes but as I said before twisting the words...does not imply anything....x + x does not equal to 2...

There are many others reading this simple post. You cannot fool everyone by using fancy english. All are not retards like me

I havent used fancy English nor is the dictionary my best friend...Point one word in fancy English that I have used...

 

[Dubious]

Would you please be kind enough to let me know what was the answer I gave to myself?
One scholar says "do not mistreat A & B". He is silent on C & D.
What is a retard supposed to conclude about "how to treat C & D"?
Pls be simple & forthright enough for a retard to understand.

You answered it:

If it wanted me to conclude that "do not mistreat C & D", it could have just said "Do not mistreat A, B, C & D" in the first instance itself.

Likewise if it wanted you to mistreat C and D it would have simply said MISTREAT C and D...Simple enough?

That was interesting and deserved some attention. I will reply in some time.

Take your time...

it means the location/ideology/name etc. at/below/under which the "incidents" keep happening. If it keeps happening in africa, that is the one. If it keeps happening under "xyz" title, that is the one.

Sooo if children keep dying in Israel thanks to funding from Western states...shall we blame western states and their funding? the banner is West is funding, right?

(this discussion is in simple english and not in arabic where meaning can change "magically" depending on "word" & "context" )

I am using simple English...Quote 1 fancy English word I have used in this discussion...

 

[Dubious]

Not yet. The scholar is silent on C & D. Do I mistreat them? Or well-treat them? (as per the scholar only)

And that is what @Pakistani shaheens said...

The sole problem is that the people like you listen to what scholars and media says

We dont need to listen to scholars about C and D if they didnt say anything about the matter it is open to deal with as you please...Plus I am sure elswhere there is references concerning C and D just keep reading...

By cherry picking his statement and not reading the whole thing it does sound like you are right but what he described below is what the letter suggested so how can it include the scholars whom he agrees with?

In islam harming anyone is forbidden so if some one breaks this rule then probably he is committing sin and will be punished.
Just take an example of a person who commits some crime, so is it correct to say that the country and law of country is to be blamed and not this person who has committed crime? Is it correct to blame this law, which clearly prohibit to do such crimes? And is it correct to make association of this criminal with the whole nation?
Similarly if few bunch of people are doing such horrible thing then it's not correct to associate them with 1.7 billion Muslims and its also foolish to say that Islam allows people to do such horrible things, which is no where near to reality

Well, in the CONTEXT, the scholars he referred meant those who wrote that letter (since he replied to that post). His reference to "Scholars" may have included other scholars too but definitely it did not exclude those who wrote the letter.

Then read the whole post which starts with

In islam harming anyone is forbidden

there was no twist unless & until @Pakistani shaheens specifically meant to exclude the scholars who wrote the letter.

He stated more than enough to clarify...

perhaps your other post about internal & external plurals impressed me

It wasnt mine...I copied it from some online source...But it is the truth about Arabic language

No one is stopping you. Western imperialism is bashed left & right and no one forces it to be stopped. They have political agenda. Organized religions do too.

Nope...A religion is about spirituality not politics...

 

[Dubious]

And since people here dont understand the power of media and what brainwashing can do I suggest you watch this movie called Without a clue..

Synopsis:

Dr. John Watson a smart doctor writes a series about Sherlock Holmes a detective and the book becomes famous, he hires an actor to act out the role of the detective and it spreads like wildfire....Everyone wants to know him and everything ...Although the real person solving each and every case is Dr.Watson ....but no one wants to hear from Dr. Watson even if he says the same thing....everyone wants Holmes to say it....

Furthermore, Holmes is depicted as an idiot and even when he makes a mistake which is covered by clever Dr.Watson the credit goes to Holmes....and his mistakes are bought by the public at large...

Every small good Holmes does - even shaking hands or asking a simple question from logic such as WHAT was he doing? people would listen like the priest is reciting a bible

THIS is perfect example of media brainwashing and idol worshiping...Where who is more important is emphasized in the brain over what is right!

 

[VCheng]

Real life issues judged by movies and TV programs made by the very people who are being berated. Quite the irony!

 

[Pakistani shaheens]

1st please be clear whether I should read the letter by "scholars" or not? @Akheilos complained that people do not read the letter. You are complaining that I read the letter but not islam. And both of you say that those who have read islam and do violent acts have "misunderstood" islam. If the logic does not end somewher, it is called "circular logic",

Sorry its my fault! i should have been more clear, i wasnt referring to those scholars who wrote that letter, instead i was referring to those specific sold out scholars who takes money from west and starts talking BS about islam, few days ago i was reading an article in which one scholar was saying something wrong about islam. And thats why in my post i also used a word media along with scholars, which i think you didnt read as you were busy distorting and playing my post. In my post if i was referring to those scholars who wrote that letter then i wouldnt have added a word media (which you obviously know is famous for its lies).
Look mate! the letter which @Akheilos was talking about clearly states that killing is forbidden in islam, while on other hand islam also have same clear guideline regarding it. Allah says in quran that" If someone kills a person then it would be as if he has slew whole humanity and if someone saves a life then it would be as if he has saved the whole humanity"

So basically those who kills others in name of islam have probabaly misinterpret what islam has said or they are doing it intentionally to malign the name of islam.

2nd, do not compare islam with "laws of a country". those laws have evolved and will continue to evolve. otoh, islam is perfect divine law that has already evolved and there is no further evolution. Besides, when many people start using the law's loopholes to do violent acts, the law will be relooked at will be revised.

SO you are admitting that islam is a perfect religion! Then why you guys always bash and blames islam if someone do a wrong thing?

And no one is saying that all muslims are violent. That is your own interpretation. People are just saying that "given appropriate contexts", violence is allowed & advocated by this religion. That in no way means that all muslims are violent,

Muslims follow islam and majority of muslims are not violent (as per you, which is also true) then that also means that islam is not violent because majority of muslims are non violent, if islam was violent then 1.7 billion people around the world would have been blowing themselves up and the world which we know would have been perished by now, but its only a few bunch of people who are either stray from the right path or are paid to carryout this dirty job.

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Suppose some scholar tells me that "Do not mistreat A & B". But it keeps silent on C & D.

What would be logical conclusion w.r.t. C & D : Is it telling me to "not mistreat C & D" OR "mistreat C & D (may be in appropriate 'çontext')".

Apply a little mind. If it wanted me to conclude that "do not mistreat C & D", it could have just said "Do not mistreat A, B, C & D" in the first instance itself.

Look mate! when your teacher ask you to write A,B,C in your notepad then she doesnt means that you have to write only A_B_and_C , instead your teacher is trying to say that you have to write all alphabets, similarly if some scholar ask you that "Do not mistreat A&B then it means he is also asking you to not mistreat C & D aswell.



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And that is what @Pakistani shaheens said...


We dont need to listen to scholars about C and D if they didnt say anything about the matter it is open to deal with as you please...Plus I am sure elswhere there is references concerning C and D just keep reading...

By cherry picking his statement and not reading the whole thing it does sound like you are right but what he described below is what the letter suggested so how can it include the scholars whom he agrees with?




Then read the whole post which starts with





He stated more than enough to clarify...



It wasnt mine...I copied it from some online source...But it is the truth about Arabic language



Nope...A religion is about spirituality not politics...

Thanks alot Akheilos for clearifying and explaining my post to him during my absence.

 

[acid rain]

How can these be myths when it's actually happening???

I mean the suicide bombing, jihad, beheading, fgm, stoning etc...as for the Islam and science part. Let's wait for some Muslim nation to launch space missions come up with some scientific inventions etc - I am sure every human has that potential. So Muslims are no different.

 

[Dubious]

Pls do not mix your opinion with @Pakistani shaheens as & when you please. Just tell me yours (his arguments have flaws and I will debate with him 1-on-1)

You mentioned him while quoting me like you are mentioning him while quoting me.....Apparently his name could be said without @ if you didnt want to include him and vice versa for me....

But the very fact you sent a notification for both of us...OBVIOUSLY you wanted us to talk w.r.t. the other's post!

What do you want my opinion about?

you noted above C & D can be dealt as one pleases. So, some may choose to mistreat C & D and you should not object or give the argument that "they have misunderstood the scholars".

Well, the scholars played no role esp when they didnt mention C and D...What people do with C and D is their individual responsibility!

Or are you those slaves who needs to be told every detail in order to function? If they are not mentioned then they are not...simple...It doesnt imply anything negative...Only negative minds would think likewise!

a religion is "supposed to be" about spirituality. spirituality is about inner-self not external territories & enemies.

Spirituality comes a inner peace and when you have inner peace you can apply it to external territories...neighbor, society, country and so on...

Spirituality does not ask its adherents to "unite" against "enemies" externally.

No but a religion is just that we call Islam as a deen not just a religion and deen means a way of life so it deals with all aspects even keeping us united! And why is keeping us united bugging you?

It is good to unite....it is also good to not the enemy break you apart through mischief which leads to chaos - How is this bad? Of course a negative mind will even find faults in a smile I believe!

When a religion identifies specific geographical territories as "OURS" vs "THEIRS", specifically defines categories of humans (faithfuls, people of the book, people not of the book, idolaters, kafirs etc etc.), rest assured, it is just wearing a burqa of spirituality.

1stly, geographical territories are expressed more in the Indian book, Torah and Bible than Quran ...I know this coz I tried reading some Hindu book from an online source...Mind you not a few pages go by when someone is addressed based on whose child he is, where he is from or what the caste is....You tell me what that shows

As for the categories: ask the Jews and Christians about the Gentiles in the bible and Torah.....

And in every book there are believers and disbelievers....as for the people of the book are the people who have a book under the Abraham religion but what you failed to see is others who have SUHUF....

What do you want to call those who worship idols? In Simple English they are called Idolaters no book will call them those who worship idols ....esp when there is a word coined for it known as idolaters!

 

[qamar1990]

5 Common Myths about Islam Propagated by the Media
by Luis Durani | November 11, 2014

In the last several months, we have seen a large rise in anti-Muslim sentiments expressed especially among commentators and the news media. Since 9/11, Islam has become a forefront issue for many in the West, especially in the US. With this constant attention to Islam and Muslims, many in the West have come to view the beliefs held by “those over there” as alien to “us” and the Judeo-Christian belief we hold to. This bias, which is subconsciously implanted by the media, has more to do with myths than facts. It is true there are differences between our society and Middle Eastern societies, but these differences did not sprout overnight. Western democracy, liberties, and freedoms have evolved not over decades but almost a millennium since the signing of the Magna Carta.

These myths help further create a wedge between “us” (the West) and “them” (Islamic world). The “them”, which constitutes 1.6 billion of the population, are not homogeneous by any stretch of the mind, yet the myths that are spewed as facts helps blob “them” together as one unitary and barbaric block. To help us better understand “them”, I set out here to dispel 5 myths I have heard spouted by both the left and right on the media. These myths are propagated as being part of Islamic and Quranic doctrine instead of being discerned to being cultural or specific to a region.



Jihad
Jihad has become synonymous with Islam and terrorism. Thanks to the extremists like Al Qaeda and ISIS, this term has come to be portrayed as the means to the Islamic utopia of a global caliphate. The media has taken the definition of the terrorists, which represent a minute aspect of Muslims and disseminate it as if it was a Quranic definition. Jihad means struggle. Jihad in Islam has two aspects to it, the greater Jihad and the lesser one.[3] The former refers to the struggle within oneself to be righteous and pure. An upstanding role model for the society one dwells in. The latter refers to the struggle within warfare. This latter definition becoming more popular is a recent phenomenon that began with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan even though Islamic Jurisprudence has discussed the greater Jihad concept for centuries. This concept of Jihad is misinterpreted and exploited by the terrorists’ organizations to fit their agenda of power and control.

The lesser Jihad is equivalent to the Christian doctrine of Just War. Unlike Christianity, which struggled to balance war and peace until Thomas Aquinas developed it, Islam created this political concept of self-defense as an inherent right of an individual and state against aggression. But that is the key point of the lesser Jihad that is always ignored; it is only applicable when an individual or state is oppressed and enduring aggression. As soon as the aggression has been stopped, the battle must stop. This concept of Jihad as self-defense is what every nation believes and practices.

Yet there are has been recorded events of nations in history that believed and practiced the premise that aggression in the name of peace and justice is acceptable. We have seen this many times whether it was the Soviet Union, Christian and Colonial Europe, and of course with us as well. Hitler believed that he was doing the lord’s work by killing more than 6 million Jews in the Holocaust. The belt buckle of Nazi soldiers carried the term “Gott Mins Uns” or God with us. Now this does not mean all Christians or Germans condoned the killing of Jews but it demonstrates how a fringe group may be able to wield enough power sometimes to give a nation or religion a bad name.

Let us not forget recent history, the Bush administration was a great advocate for pursing wars in order to bring democracy and liberty to those who were denied it. This belief echoes very similar to the extremists who claim they are carrying out God’s work in promulgating Islam. These actions, whether in good intent or not, has yielded a great number of deaths all over and has led to the formation of extremists such as ISIS. Yet we know the majority of Americans did not and would not believe in warfare to advance liberty and democracy just like the majority of Islam does not believe in warfare to advance Islam.

Female Genital Mutilation
This horrendous act is the removal of the female genitalia in order to control female sexuality. This act is rooted in patriarchal cultures of controlling the female population. There isn’t anything stated in the Quran or mentioned in the Hadiths. Such acts were eliminated under Muhammad and his early followers. Yet Fox News and other media outlets always perpetuate this action as part of Islam. In reality, according to UNICEF, 29 countries practice FGM. Out of these 29 nations, 27 are in Africa and some of those nations are Christian majority. The other two are in the Middle East, Iraq and Yemen.[1] In Iraq, the Kurds practice FGM not due to Islam but due to their culture, which preceded Islam. In Yemen, similar reasons are attributed to its practice. This is a differentiation that needs to be made. So to paraphrase Reza Aslan, FGM is an African problem not an Islamic problem. FGM was practiced not too long ago in the West including Britain and the US around the early part of the 20thcentury.[2]


Stoning
Stoning of adulterers is seen as a barbaric act that only exists in the Islamic world. The news media is quick to point out that the act of adultery is condemned within Islam therefore stoning is what the Quran dictates. Bill Maher and others are quick to point this out as well. They are not wrong in the sense that when they hear about a stoningit’s in Muslim nations and hence it must be part of their religion. The issue is instead taking what a few say or do as proof a religion is inherently evil or advocates ignorance and violence, they should research it instead. All Muslim countries do not practice stoning today, only a handful of these nations. Actually the punishment of stoning of adulterers is not mentioned anywhere in the Quran. Instead Islamic jurisprudence decided to look at what the people of the book (Christian and Jews) did since Islam holds both texts and faiths in high esteem. Both the Torah and the Bible prescribe this type of punishment. The Old Testament in Leviticus discusses putting the adulterer to death and stoning was used as a method of execution. Whereas in Islam, the actual punishment is not described in the Quran, it does condemn it but does not prescribe death unlike the Bible and Torah.

Before commentators jump on Islam, it is the two preceding Abrahamic faiths that have advanced the punishment of death whereas Islam just condemns it similar to our current society. I would say it’s fair to assume that the preponderance of society would say committing adultery (cheating on one’s partner) is a bad act, definitely not worth death but we as a society would condemn it just like Islam has. Now it is up to current Islamic scholars to evaluate and dictate punishments. Islamic jurisprudence should dictate punishments through the context of society, time, and exegesis of the Quran. The majority of non-secular Islamic nations do not prescribe stoning as a form of punishment for adultery.

Suicide Bombing
Nothing is more synonymous as an act of Islamic terrorism than suicide bombing. Suicide bombing came to us in recent history during the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. The actions of the bombers were more so for national aspirations not religious purposes. Yet it has always been claimed that Islam condones these acts of terrorism and the Palestinians exhibited it. The media and commentator do a great job of portraying it as a weapon of choice amongst Muslims. It did not help when the Taliban implemented it in Afghanistan and Pakistan as well as Al Qaeda carrying it out in Iraq. Yet nothing could be further from the truth. Fatwas (religious decree) have been given by many scholars decreeing it illegal and un-Islamic. One of the more popular fatwas was published in England directly refuting the Al Qaeda and Taliban ideology.[4] It was endorsed by Al Azhar, the oldest Islamic University in the world and widely respected Sunni institution of Islamic Jurisprudence. The Quran similar to Christianity and Judaism prohibits suicide. The killing of innocent people is highly condemned by the Quran and Islamic traditions. Thus the combination of the two in the form of suicide bombing is in no way justified by Islam or any Islamic traditions.

Again it is the agenda of these extremist organizations to justify their yearning for power by the umbrella of religion. Robert Pape in his book, Dying to Win, draws on an extensive body of research to dispel this myth that suicide terrorism and Islam are related. He demonstrates that the majority of these cases were nationalistic driven not religiously. Instead these acts were local insurgents or terrorists attempting to drive out occupiers from their territories.[5] Such acts have been carried out by Christians, Jews, and Hindus (Tamil Tigers). The very first use of suicide attacks as a tactic of war or politics were by the Christian and Jewish armies in the earlier history of man. In 1983, a Jewish zealot strapped himself with bombs and walking into the US Capitolwith the intent of blowing himself up. But we do not go around saying either of those two religions endorses suicide terrorism because such rhetoric is nonsense. Yet today we have somehow convoluted Islam and suicide bombings as one of the same. It is true, most suicide attacks are perpetuated today by those claiming to be Muslims but a larger look at history shows us otherwise. The point being here is that just because a fringe segments of the population carryout such attacks; it is not a belief of a majority of adherents to Islam as the media makes it out to be.

Islam and Science
One thing I am sadly witnessing today is this belief that Islam contributes nothing to the world but hate, war, terrorism, and havoc. This notion that Islam is antiquated and barbaric with nothing to share but only destroys. Nothing could be further from the truth. Religion to many is a medium of hope and faith in something that allows them to lead lives of purpose. It is the basis of their moral compass. Today, the overwhelming majority of the 1.6 billion Muslims are not violent and extreme. Of course there are criminal and violent believers amongst Muslims but that number is very minute compared to what is sometimes arbitrarily attributed by the media.

We forget that Islam is one of the few religions that have been on the forefront of science, technology, and advancement. It was Islam that preserved the works of the Greeks and Romans when Europe descended into the Dark Ages. It was the Muslims who built upon that knowledge and gave us advancements in mathematics such as the concept of “0”, algebra, algorithm, advances in chemistry and medicine, which are still used to this day, optics, astronomy, etc. The Arabs prior to Islam were a nomadic set of people with minimal interest in such things; it was Islam that fostered the environment for growth in such ideas. The Quran gave the concept of the Earth not being flat but oval shaped like an egg to the Muslims. Female gestation periods were described and other advancements that took Europe several centuries to find out.[6]

Whether this was divine knowledge or whatever one may believe, it was verses like that allowed Muslims to foster a culture of science, education, and advancement. The first university in the world was created by a Muslim and a female Muslim on top of that. One of the most popular Hadiths (Islamic tradition) is attributed to the Prophet Muhammad as saying the ink of a scholar is worth more to God than the blood of a martyr. That sentiment alone captures how much Islam believes in education over warfare. Education and especially science has a special place within Islam.

Sam Harris, the famous atheist who is against Islamic doctrine, points this fact about Islam and its special relation to science unlike Christianity and Judaism. He points out the fact that stem cell research is not prohibited in Islam because of the belief of when conception and life take place. In addition, Muslims don’t believe the Earth was created 6,000 years ago like many Christian believers do. Instead some scholars argue that Islam believes in such theories as the Big Bang and evolution within an Islamic context of course. Now many commentators and liberals would be surprised to hear such a thing because to them what they know of Islam is what they have heard a few anti-Muslim demagogues who lack proper knowledge into the doctrines and history of the religion spout.

By the media continuing to perpetuate these myths, the wedge of difference between “us” and “them” continue to grow. We begin to view “them” as a homogenous group of extremists who are misogynists, racists, cruel, and barbaric. What makes it worse is we attribute this to a religion that holds 1.6 billion adherents who are all ethnically, racially, nationally, and culturally as diverse as possible. As humans, anything different is subconsciously considered inferior and even threatening. If we continue to allow the fourth estate to perpetuate myths instead of facts, its raison d’être as a check on government and medium of information is no longer existent. The media needs to do its job by checking claims and substantiating arguments instead of just allowing it to be continuously perpetuate even when it is a myth.

This article is not here to say Islam and Muslims live in a utopia by any means. Today, many Muslims live in a horrible state with repressive governments that create the environment for ignorance and extremism to be cultivated. With the lack of education, the leader of these extremist groups use that as a tool to recruit their mindless pawns into a war that gains the leaders many tangible worldly benefits such as power, fame, and wealth, even though they veil it in a shroud of religious liberation and pride. Many of these groups such as the Taliban and others lack proper knowledge in Islam themselves.

The Islamic world can be argued to be in its dark ages as Christianity was and perhaps on the cusp of its Renaissance, similar to that which allowed Europe to escape the abyss it was falling into. One way we in the West can help is to learn about Islam and that region’s history, its beliefs, and doctrines and know for ourselves what Islam and Muslims are about.

A quote that captures the current state of Muslims was mentioned by Muhammad Abduh, a Muslim scholar who lived in the 19th century, in his travels to Europe he made the following remark about the advancements of the Enlightenment: “Everywhere I look I see Islam but no Muslims and when I return home I see Muslims but no Islam”.

isn't stoning mentioned in hadiths?
@Akheilos

 

[Dubious]

isn't stoning mentioned in hadiths?
@Akheilos

Stoning is originally mentioned in the bible...

Since the Quran came in sections/ parts not as an entire book....before certain laws were established the law of Moses and Jesus (Who came to complete the Law of Moses - as said by Jesus himself) was used to derive some punishments...so yes they came in Hadith and Sunnah....

 

[Mabs]

And the apologists will remain in denial too.

Islam is what its followers DO, not what they claim.[/QUOTE

Laws are what people follow, not what the government claims.

 

[Norwegian]

I knew where this thread would lead to by Islamists and Conservatives of PDF. Thank God I refrained from replying here

 

[Gibbs]

now false is truth!

By stating lies brainwashed people call it truth

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it as the truth...

And now even when you show it as a lie....Some come out saying it is nothing else but the truth...Lovely brainwashing!

You keep repeating this.. I'm sorry it's goes for religious dogma as well

When you keep repeating to a child that your belief system is the absolute truth and your god is the true god and if you divert from him you will burn in hell.. or if he/she follows your god will end up in paradise and if you're lucky to be born a male end up with 7 virgins..Anybody else not following your god is inferior or an infidel (Take your pick)

A book written by men with agenda's but said to be from god forced down on children brainwashing them made to repeat it daily like zombies, Also makes it's word to word unquestionable

So yeah any lie you keep repeating written or not will eventually come to be believe as the divine truth

 

[Dubious]

You keep repeating this.. I'm sorry it's goes for religious dogma as well

Not exactly....Coz if it did by now (26 pages) something worth reading would have popped up

When you keep repeating to a child that your belief system is the absolute truth and your god is the true god and if you divert from him you will burn in hell..

Who repeats THAT to their child?

Dont you tell your "CHILD" NOT to play with fire? Key word child and the word you are looking for is warning....

r if he/she follows your god will end up in paradise and if you're lucky to be born a male end up with 7 virgins..Anybody else not following your god is inferior or an infidel (Take your pick)

I feel sorry for your child to listen to such shit! Typical Indian mentality I believe! patriarch system believers?

A book written by men with agenda's but said to be from god forced down on children brainwashing them made to repeat it daily like zombies, Also makes it's word to word unquestionable

Then question it? So far everyone has attempted to BASH it but never question...Difference? 1 (bashing) is bot true and published by numerous websites AND answered by numerous other websites....other (asking or questioning) is your genuine thinking that arises from YOU actually doing the reading to come up with the questions! -See the differecne?

So yeah any lie you keep repeating written or not will eventually come to be believe as the divine truth

Now you saying that after what I just said sounds like a stubborn kid defeated ...