4 Chinese Destroyer Ships available for Purchase , Decommissioned 2 Months ago

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

To fill the gap, I agree Pakistan should go for a ship like this, but it needs a modest upgrade to be worth the effort and cost to operate. The HQ-7 missiles need to be replaced with SA-N-12 Grizzly (HQ-16) missiles to provide area coverage. Similar to the arm launchers on the Type 052B Destoyers, one launcher could allow these ships to provide a modest air defense capability. Also the main radar needs to be upgraded to the one planned for the Pakistani Type 054A/P Frigates. Once the Frigates are inducted, the missiles and the Radar can be taken off these ships and put on the Type 054A/P frigates. therefore minimizing cost, and nothing is wasted. The experience gained and capability improvement will force a change in the enemy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_052B_destroyer
notice the arm missile launchers fore and aft; the destroyers you propose needs only one arm launcher that can rapid fire and reload.

The ship would end up with similar capabilities as the french Cassard Destroyers, and they are still operating with the French Navy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassard-class_frigate

For Pakistan's need the chinese ship would be wonderful for next 10 years we can add our own modifcations till the newer ships get inducted

Safe approach

Most world navies are operating lesser ships than what chinese ships can do



Phase 1 [1-3 months] : We get 4x ships as is , just basic operation training and off we go immediate fix
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phase 2 [2 years] : We Induct the 2 x Type 054 Ships in fleet
Phase 3 [2 Years] : The 4x ships we got in rush , we do the Upgrade on these Radar / SAM
Phase 4 [4 Years] : 4x Milgem Ships Arrive

 

[ZY-CN-CA]

Type 052DL + YJ-21

China shall make the true carrier killer being affordable for everyone.

052DL is impossible within 5 years..

 

[FuturePAF]

For Pakistan's need the chinese ship would be wonderful for next 10 years we can add our own modifcations till the newer ships get inducted

Safe approach

Most world navies are operating lesser ships than what chinese ships can do



Phase 1 [1-3 months] : We get 4x ships as is , just basic operation training and off we go immediate fix
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phase 2 [2 years] : We Induct the 2 x Type 054 Ships in fleet
Phase 3 [2 Years] : The 4x ships we got in rush , we do the Upgrade on these Radar / SAM
Phase 4 [4 Years] : 4x Milgem Ships Arrive

I agree, we need numbers in the oceangoing fleet now, so we can fend off any Indian evil intent on our coastline or our shipping. It would be equivalent to the Indian Brahmaputra frigates, in tonnage and capability.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmaputra-class_frigate

052DL is impossible within 5 years..

How about buying the Type 051C or 052B or 052C Destroyers? They are nearly 15 years old; and with the pace of type 052D and Type 055 Production, maybe the PLA Navy could spare them, and allow them to be sold or lease to the Pakistani navy.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

052DL is impossible within 5 years..

In decade maybe.

If China really wants to export the Type 052D, then it is going to be the DL model, since the production for the original D has been halted. China also won't produce any Type 052C.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

@Rashid Mahmood

For the price of trash these could be very potent addition. What do you think Sir...

@Khafee

Not interested.
We cannot afford to add old tech in our fleet at this point.

 

[Cornered Tiger]

What was even the point to negotiate for this none sense ship ?
It will take 10 years (if it's sale is approved to reach pakistan and even then it will be unarmed)

Its not about just weaponry. Its about overall specifications. Design of the ship, navigation suite, radar suite, sensors, EW equipment, propulsion, engine, crew accommodation and so many things. There is a generational gap between Swifts and these ships.

 

[Shabi1]

PN ships equipped with Harbah can outrange the Brahmos equipped Indian Navy ships so PN does have some edge if these modified missile boats work in tandem with its destroyers and frigates.

I suppose PN if it can add a level of automation can use older naval ships as decoys. But being decommissioned these might have been stripped of their hardware.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Swift ship don't even have any weapons ....just a machine gun and cwis how can it be a generation advance

At our present circumstances , the "comfort of crew/accommodation " is not the prime objective all these things can be fixed by local labor

Chinese ships have military grade radar and active weapons and swift ship has a mini radar


4+ 3 ships from China seems like a very legit way to balance our navy out

The ships have enough room to install 16 custom missiles and also mix of cruise missiles

 

[Pak_Sher]

Lease these ships Till Type054 arrive in Pakistan
Send a delegation and pick up the 4 units and add them immediately in Pakistan Navy

Ships retired May , 2019**
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/2...oyers_Days_after_Commissioning_2_New_Warships

The destroyer flotilla of the Chinese Navy under the PLA Northern Theater Command held a retirement ceremony for four first-generation missile destroyers.

The decommissioning of the 4 ships at a military port in Lyushun, Liaoning Province, followed the induction of two Type 052D guided missile destroyers in the naval shipyard of Dalian on May 12.

Official media identified the decommissioned ships as the guided-missile destroyers Kaifeng (Hull 109), Dalian (Hull 110), Zunyi (Hull 134) and Guilin (Hull 164) All of the four destroyers had been in service for more than 30 years.

Junk

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Buy More Type 054 and upgrade F-22P's

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I agree, we need numbers in the oceangoing fleet now, so we can fend off any Indian evil intent on our coastline or our shipping. It would be equivalent to the Indian Brahmaputra frigates, in tonnage and capability.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmaputra-class_frigate



How about buying the Type 051C or 052B or 052C Destroyers? They are nearly 15 years old; and with the pace of type 052D and Type 055 Production, maybe the PLA Navy could spare them, and allow them to be sold or lease to the Pakistani navy.

Maybe the Type 052B/C could be taken into consideration when China's Type 052D got around 20 units into service, and the Type 052C is even the first generation Chinese Aegis.

The Type 051C using the steam population which not the optimal choice, and the original Type 052 is also near its retirement.

 

[FuturePAF]

Buy More Type 054 and upgrade F-22P's

Definitely, it would be better to upgrade the F-22P over buying these retiring vessel, which could be done in a matter of months to near Type 054A/P standard

Use the same radar from the Type 054/P; and replace the FM-90 with maybe 16 cells of VLS fore, and 16 cells of VLS aft. It has even been studied to some extent by the Chinese shipbuilder. We need to think beyond the Type 054A/P, and look to see when we could try to buy 3 Type 052C used. They will add a higher level of protection, that would be real area air defense; allow the PN to counter not only the Brahmos Threat but confront the launch platform. There are many HQ-9 Variants that could be fitted in the VLS cells so the possibilities really open up.

Maybe the Type 052B/C could be taken into consideration when China's Type 052D got around 20 units into service, and the Type 052C is even the first generation Chinese Aegis.

The Type 051C using the steam population which not the optimal choice, and the original Type 052 is also near its retirement.

When do you expect the 20th Type 052D to go into service?

According to the Wikipedia article on the Type 052D there are currently 8 ships commissioned and 1 being fitted out, it looks like approx. 2 destroyers are produced a year on average by my estimate, so if the trend continues, it would take till the end of 2025 to reach 20 ships in class if I'm not mistaken. Do you think the Pn should still persue the Type 052C at that point (and if so at what price), or would the Chinese government be prepared to offer the Type 052D and if so at what price?

 

[monitor]

In decade maybe.

If China really wants to export the Type 052D, then it is going to be the DL model, since the production for the original D has been halted. China also won't produce any Type 052C.

China have enough type 52c. If Pakistan wants to lease then this relatively newly build destroyer should lease with buying options if possible.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

A modest regional Navy can be constructed with 4-7 Chinese , retired ships added to Pakistan's fleet
With continuous need for Anti Piracy missions between Pakistan and Oman , the ship can play a vital role to safe guard our national interest

• 10-12 years would be term of service for Lease (Could be ..)

We need live active , weaponry not barebone ships


Damen = Barebone
Swift = Barebone
OHP = Barebone (Anti Submarine Role)


Sure the new ships will have fresh carpet
It will have nice cafeteria
It will have nice Chair and tables
The resting room for Sailors would be great

But for 10-12 years we really could do with Ships that have some arms loaded


Not the odd strategic , stance , it can do anti sub role but can't fire on Planes
It can fire on ship but can't hunt down submarines
Or it can do Anti Piracy role but can't hit a bigger ship



If we can Lease PIA planes this is no diffeent we could sure use the 4-7 Chinese retired destroyer ships

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Definitely, it would be better to upgrade the F-22P over buying these retiring vessel, which could be done in a matter of months to near Type 054A/P standard

Use the same radar from the Type 054/P; and replace the FM-90 with maybe 16 cells of VLS fore, and 16 cells of VLS aft. It has even been studied to some extent by the Chinese shipbuilder. We need to think beyond the Type 054A/P, and look to see when we could try to buy 3 Type 052C used. They will add a higher level of protection, that would be real area air defense; allow the PN to counter not only the Brahmos Threat but confront the launch platform. There are many HQ-9 Variants that could be fitted in the VLS cells so the possibilities really open up.

When do you expect the 20th Type 052D to go into service?

According to the Wikipedia article on the Type 052D there are currently 8 ships commissioned and 1 being fitted out, it looks like approx. 2 destroyers are produced a year on average by my estimate, so if the trend continues, it would take till the end of 2025 to reach 20 ships in class if I'm not mistaken. Do you think the Pn should still persue the Type 052C at that point (and if so at what price), or would the Chinese government be prepared to offer the Type 052D and if so at what price?

The Type 052D has currently 12 ships being commissioned, and 1 nearly commissioned, and 2 improved variants under the sea trial.

BTW, the English Wiki page for the Type 052D has been messed up by some trolls, and the Chinese Wiki page is being more accurate.

The 20th Type 052D shall be commissioned before the end of 2021.

For purchase price of the Type 055 for the PLAN is around $900 million, then the Type 052D should probably cost less than half.

As I said before, a friendly price of $500-600 million per ship if China really wants to export the Type 052D variant.

China have enough type 52c. If Pakistan wants to lease then this relatively newly build destroyer should lease with buying options if possible.

The first two Type 052C can be retrofit if possible.