4 Chinese Destroyer Ships available for Purchase , Decommissioned 2 Months ago

[LKJ86]

The Type 052D has currently 12 ships being commissioned, and 1 nearly commissioned, and 2 improved variants under the sea trial.

BTW, the English Wiki page for the Type 052D has been messed up by some trolls, and the Chinese Wiki page is being more accurate.

The 20th Type 052D shall be commissioned before the end of 2021.

For purchase price of the Type 055 for the PLAN is around $900 million, then the Type 052D should cost probably less than half.

As I said before, a friendly price of $500-600 million per ship if China really wants to export the Type 052D variant.



The first two Type 052C can be retrofit if possible.

Upgraded version of Type 052D DDG

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

View attachment 577641

Upgraded version of Type 052D DDG

I guess this is the 14th ship overall AKA DDG-132 Zibo.

She along with the 15th ship AKA DDG-162 Huainan should be ready by 2020.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The 4+3 Destroyer deal , would give us necessary 3 Dimensional upgrade which our Navy Lacks a bit
I admit the SAM on the destroyers may is not Top of the Line but may be the SAM can be refurbished with a newer model

Apart from that the ships are legitimate contributor for any Navy

130 Meter and 3600 Tones , almost , 4000 Tones ship

We could technically house

a) HERBA
b) NASR



The anti Sub rockets would also be welcomed (if we go that path)

If a Submarine was spotted ...it would be in big trouble near this ship

 

[FuturePAF]

The Type 052D has currently 12 ships being commissioned, and 1 nearly commissioned, and 2 improved variants under the sea trial.

BTW, the English Wiki page for the Type 052D has been messed up by some trolls, and the Chinese Wiki page is being more accurate.

The 20th Type 052D shall be commissioned before the end of 2021.

For purchase price of the Type 055 for the PLAN is around $900 million, then the Type 052D should probably cost less than half.

As I said before, a friendly price of $500-600 million per ship if China really wants to export the Type 052D variant.



The first two Type 052C can be retrofit if possible.

With its improved Radar and longer range Missiles over the 052C, the PN should hold out till it has the funds to get the Type 052D. When used with the Type 054A/P, the Ada ASW Frigate, and at least a half dozen AZMAT Class FACs, they can constitute a formidable surface action force, to counter any threat of an Indian Blockade.

$500-600 Million seems to be a very friendly price, hopefully with an improving economy, the PN will go for at least 3 Type 052Ds.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The new stuff won't be ready for next 5-7 years
need stuff now and that was the main argument in order to have some balance in Navy

I was imagining any help modernizing the radar could be done with Turkey's help for the ships

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

With its improved Radar and longer range Missiles over the 052C, the PN should hold out till it has the funds to get the Type 052D. When used with the Type 054A/P, the Ada ASW Frigate, and at least a half dozen AZMAT Class FACs, they can constitute a formidable surface action force, to counter any threat of an Indian Blockade.

$500-600 Million seems to be a very friendly price, hopefully with an improving economy, the PN will go for at least 3 Type 052Ds.

Type 052DL: new anti-stealth radar, longer helipad for improved anti-sub capability, upgraded propulsion systems.

The Type 052DL with the YJ-21 (Starry Sky-2) anti-ship missile will be a true carrier killer.

Since China now only produces the hull of the Type 052DL, not the original Type 052D. Therefore, I assume the export version would also use the hull of the newly designed one, not the original one.

Here is the comparison between the Type 055, Type 052DL, Type 052D.

 

[FuturePAF]

The new stuff won't be ready for next 5-7 years
need stuff now and that was the main argument in order to have some balance in Navy

I was imagining any help modernizing the radar could be done with Turkey's help for the ships

1. Do you want to take these ships as is?
2. What do you envision these ships doing?
3. Have you factoring in training the crews to operate these ships, and the amount of time that would take.

There is a short video to watch on why these ships were retired. (basically it comes down to the propulsion were getting hard to operate and maintain). These ships seem more trouble then they are worth and there prominent signatures will make them easy targets.

Money would be better spend upgrading the Current F-22P with a better radar and upgrading the Air Defense missiles with a 16 cell VLS with LY-80/HQ-16, as well as building Ocean going FACs that can carry the latest anti-ship missiles. Minimal down time but the added capabilities makes the wait worth it, limits the amount of training, and the ships will service on for decades to come, Inshallah.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well I think the Ships , as is would form a forward front Together with may be 1 Support ship like Azmat

But if we go with 4+3 Ships approach , we could have a rotational policy , to send out ships for Patrol and also , do maintenance work for ships at docks

They already will be armed so just need crew training on the ship

Most likely I would imagine the Ships would help with Active control of Piracy and Ensuring that no hostile Ships cause disruption to Pakistani Trade ships

• It would also make for a better presence in international Navy Training Missions

Possible Upgrade:
Radar Upgrade: Possibly with Turkey
Cruise Missile Upgrade : Local Pakistani
Anti Ship Missile : Local Pakistani Variant
Helicopters : Upgraded Chinese Helicopters could be Bought for Anti Submarine Role


The Ships can also be upgraded/maintained with Local Pakistani Crew

We won't need a Mirage fleet , that much with Destroyers , armed with SAM on board


From Pakistan's Stand point "Available Now" is what is most important

 

[FuturePAF]

Well I think the Ships , as is would form a forward front Together with may be 1 Support ship like Azmat

But if we go with 4+3 Ships approach , we could have a rotational policy , to send out ships for Patrol and also , do maintenance work for ships at docks

They already will be armed so just need crew training on the ship

Most likely I would imagine the Ships would help with Active control of Piracy and Ensuring that no hostile Ships cause disruption to Pakistani Trade ships

• It would also make for a better presence in international Navy Training Missions

Possible Upgrade:
Radar Upgrade: Possibly with Turkey
Cruise Missile Upgrade : Local Pakistani
Anti Ship Missile : Local Pakistani Variant
Helicopters : Upgraded Chinese Helicopters could be Bought for Anti Submarine Role


The Ships can also be upgraded/maintained with Local Pakistani Crew

View attachment 577673



We won't need a Mirage fleet , that much with Destroyers , armed with SAM on board


From Pakistan's Stand point "Available Now" is what is most important

So basically a "Heavy" Fast Attack Craft; Heavily armed with Anti-ship missiles to guard the SLOCs and EEZ.
I like that they are available now, and we are basically on a war time footing.
If we can get a radar upgrade, some modest command and control upgrades to integrate that radar with the weapons systems and upgrade the air defense missiles with a box launcher or single arm launcher and magazine with HQ-16 in it, Then I'm with you.

When these ships are way out at sea, they need adequate air defense to hold on for a few hours on their own. (The other issue is ASW, because way out at sea, could be a number of potentially hostile enemy submarines)
Those are the makes or breaks for these ships.

In your original post you stated
"8 surface-to-air missiles + 16 spare (manual reload)"; which means there is room below deck to either place a VLS or room for a Shtil single arm launcher and a drum of missiles. The arm option is probably cheaper, and quicker to install. (it might require a quick deal with the Russians to take it off one of their old ships, sell it to the Chinese, so the Chinese can put it on these ships and sell it to us)

The Type 052B Features two of these arms; one fore and one aft. From the Wikipedia article it looks like each arm and its associated magazine can house 24 SA-N-12 Missiles. If Pakistan uses the LY-80/HQ-16 the range on these missiles against aircraft could be 40-70 km. This along with replace the smaller gun in the front with a FL-3000N launcher, and you will have layered defenses adequate for the mission you propose.

But, we still need to evaluate if there is an issue with the propulsion system, as alleged in that video.

Some Details on the system from a Russian Website
http://bastion-opk.ru/uragan-zrk/

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well that is not a professional video

When have we been deterred in Past from a little smoke


JF17 = Smoke
F22P = Smoke


China is doing massive Upgrades so they can spare extra ships
We on other hand have no luxury with Ships

Smoke is never the issue the issue is not having weapons on ship

 

[FuturePAF]

Well that is not a professional video

When have we been deterred in Past from a little smoke


JF17 = Smoke
F22P = Smoke


China is doing massive Upgrades so they can spare extra ships
We on other hand have no luxury with Ships

Smoke is never the issue the issue is not having weapons on ship

Like you said, the idea you propose is a stop gap measure, and if we can bear with the alleged propulsion issue (which needs to be investigated if it is true in the first place or not). Even if the propulsion issue is real, but not substantial, it can be managed until we fill the stop-gap, and retire these ships.

Then we need to address the operational capability to protect the EEZ and SLOC. Getting an adequate air defense upgrade, a decent radar upgrade, and the battle management upgrade will make these ships worth it. All these upgrade are basically the same systems from the Type 054A/P Pakistan is already procuring. Why not buy these subsystems now, fit them on these retiring destroyers, use them for a few years, until the Type 054A/P are ready and then place the Radar, Missiles, and Battle Management system on the new Type 054A/P. Nothing is wasted, and this will get our crews trained up on using the missiles, radars, and battle management system in a real ship ASAP.

No luxury upgrades, just the same equipment on temporary hulls, until our new hulls are ready.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well the best benefit is SAM umbrella at sea and also if we spot a Enemy Submarine we have capacity to engage and sink the enemy Submarine with a retaliatory stance

Provided the ships remain near our shore and with in Red sea / Gulf and Sea of Pakistan , we should be fine

We are not sending these ships out to Antarctica or Pacific Expedition
Pakistan's local weaponry could add some depth on these ships

We could help with various Piracy issues in Red sea area or take part on regional cooperative missions

 

[FuturePAF]

Well the best benefit is SAM umbrella at sea and also if we spot a Enemy Submarine we have capacity to engage and sink the enemy Submarine with a retaliatory stance

Provided the ships remain near our shore and with in Red sea / Gulf and Sea of Pakistan , we should be fine

We are not sending these ships out to Antarctica or Pacific Expedition
Pakistan's local weaponry could add some depth on these ships

We could help with various Piracy issues in Red sea area or take part on regional cooperative missions

We need decent SAMs to provide a SAM umbrella. What kind of AAW upgrade to you envision for these ships? I've stated that using the same missiles (although with the single arm launcher), radar, and combat management equipment would be the minimum option. Without upgrading the air defense, these ships will be more of a liability, even within our EEZ much less further afield, then an asset.

Here is some more detail of the SA-N-7 System with the drum magazine and single arm launcher
http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/2003-08-18/144179.html

Otherwise it would be far cheaper to buy the 1 Type 051B, 2 Type 051C, and 2 Type 052B depending on China's willingness to sell, and our ability to pay. They already have all the modern equipment we would require, and their age is 18-25 years old, so China maybe ready to sell them at friendship prices. The Type 051C, for example, carries 48 S-300 missiles, which is a significant capability, and could serve for at least a decade in the PN, so it would be worth training the crews on. Asking the Chinese to part with the sole 051B and 2 051C would probably be the best option, if procured at a reasonable price. These three ships are just a few years younger then the Type 052, but very much more capable.

The only other way the basic Type 052 destroyers could be beneficial, would be if they operated along side these three more capable destroyers, under their protection at all times, and were just their heavy anti-ship missile carrying platforms, but even then they would be more expensive to be used for all but high alert duty, providing added firepower in a crisis. The rest of the time, they would have to stay in port to save costs. To make them worth the cost, they would have to be upgraded to carry heavy long range Anti-ship cruise missiles like the YJ-12 or CX-1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YJ-12

There maybe even be enough space to carry longer range Anti-ship ballistic missiles; 4 of those along side 8 of the JY-12 or CX-1. This could added longer range area-denial capabilities.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...stic-missile-designed-to-dodge-enemy-defenses

http://chinesemilitaryreview.blogspot.com/2012/02/chinese-type-052-luhu-class-destroyer.html

In the following rendering, ignore all the other upgrades, and just
focus on the improved Anti-ship missiles. This would be the minimum added capability the PN needs to make these Basic Type 052 Destroyers worth it. Also this kind of upgrade is relatively quick and cheap, but is a significant upgrade, 16 Supersonic Cruise missiles. If operated next at least a Type 051C or Type 051B, then some level of air defense would allow these four Type 052A to prove their worth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_051B_destroyer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_051C_destroyer

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well personally speaking , adding the ships as is with just our local modification
i.e Herba , Babur , Raad etc on board it should give us decent punch

For the SAMs , we can just start off with what the ships offer get them in service and then once our Type 053 arrive then take some of these ships offline to upgrade the Radar/SAM with Turkey option

Important point , to consider is what we order "New" today will take 4-5 years to complete and reach us
Yes the newer Chinese ships pack a bigger punch but it will take time to construct these machines
So we need something we can use till that point comes


Default setup I believe is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HQ-7
which is ok for short term usage

 

[FuturePAF]

Well personally speaking , adding the ships as is with just our local modification
i.e Herba , Babur , Raad etc on board it should give us decent punch

For the SAMs , we can just start off with what the ships offer get them in service and then once our Type 053 arrive then take some of these ships offline to upgrade the Radar/SAM with Turkey option

Important point , to consider is what we order "New" today will take 4-5 years to complete and reach us
Yes the newer Chinese ships pack a bigger punch but it will take time to construct these machines
So we need something we can use till that point comes

Considering the level of tensions and the threat to our SLOCs, we need all the fire power we can get, within our means. So in conclusion, I agree, take these ships as is, put on the best domestic or foreign anti-ship or LACM missiles we can get, and get these ships on station. Hope for the best for the next 5 years, but a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

Although we should try to get some CX-1 or YJ-12 or Anti-ship Ballistic missiles on these ships. It will add a significant complication to enemy forces. Longer range sub-sonic missiles may no longer cut when trying to penetrate the enemy's modern air defenses.