3rd-time unlucky Nirbhay to try luck once more

[باپ]

That "harmless barter " and certain others, got you the tag of being one of the worlds foremost nuclear proliferators.

As North Korea used these Pakistani centrifuges and it blue prints to produce its own nuclear weapons.

This nuclear proliferation is the reason, Pakistan did not get nuclear deal despite desperately asking for it.

And this is the reason, Pakistan will not get into NSG now.

That's India supported propaganda against Pakistan which will happen anyway, no matter
What we do. Best policy is to damn care about that and serve our national interest.

 

[Photon]

That's India supported propaganda against Pakistan which will happen anyway, no matter
What we do. Best policy is to damn care about that and serve our national interest.

That is not propaganda, it is an established fact.

Pakistan supplied nuclear centrifuges and its designs to North Korea ,Iran and Libiya .

Today North Korea is a nuclear weapons state, Iran is on the cusp becoming nuclear and Libyan Nuclear weapons were foiled at a great cost by Americans

Hence Pakistani dreams of getting a nuclear deal from US and entry into NSG will remain a pipe dream.

For achieving short term gains(acquiring a liquid fuel missile and few million dollars) Pakistan made huge strategic blunders, that will taint it for long-long time to come.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

The second test was a success, the first and third didnt meet all parameters. The third test it was doing some steep dives if I remember correctly.

That is called Re-inventing the wheel , of which there is no need and is stupid plus expensive. Thats why Pakistan Buys reliable components instead of unnecessarily building new.
India tries to make every defense project as a University project and eventually fails or makes some low quality end result at many times the cost. What India is trying to do in 2016 , Pakistan did 11 years ago beause we keep it simple.

There's no way around getting Nirbhay right. Who will give a long range(1000km+) cruise missile? Land attack Nirbhay blocks will accompany Brahmos blocks/marks in every major Indian naval vessel, subs will get this as well. This is a missile that has to be worked on till it works, like Agnis.

 

[باپ]

The second test was a success, the first and third didnt meet all parameters. The third test it was doing some steep dives if I remember correctly.




There's no way around getting Nirbhay right. Who will give a long range(1000km+) cruise missile? Land attack Nirbhay blocks will accompany Brahmos blocks/marks in every major Indian naval vessel, subs will get this as well. This is a missile that has to be worked on till it works, like Agnis.

Looking around for reference design and copying others is good. Same as Pakistan does.
You mentioned Agni?
India made a right mess of them. Initial versions are too long and thin to be road mobile. The thin skeleton will not be able to withstand stresses by an off road fast moving TEL.
Later version are too heavy for that.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Looking around for reference design and copying others is good. Same as Pakistan does.
You mentioned Agni?
India made a right mess of them. Initial versions are too long and thin to be road mobile. The thin skeleton will not be able to withstand stresses by an off road fast moving TEL.
Later version are too heavy for that.

They're not too long or thin that it cant be road mobile. They've been paraded through roads several times. Now, like Agni 5, older missiles are also being canistered.

Later missiles are going through weight reduction. Agni 3 for example have shaved several tons off.

Ms. Thomas said that while the two-stage Agni-III missile capable of hitting targets up to 3,000 km away weighed 50 tonnes, the team was able to bring down the weight of the missile to 22 tonnes.

“It saw several technological enhancements and we had to redesign the entire system, use maraging steel and composite motor rocket,” she said.

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/agniv-vital-tessy-thomas/article5191824.ece


And if Russian ICBMs weighing 50+ tons can be coupled with off road TELs, there's no way Agnis cant either.

India just doesnt have off road TEL, for this it should cooperate with the Ukrianians, which I think the Chinese did.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Certainly, there is.

These technologies do not come free, and some times, they cost you dearly.

eg Pakistan had to give away its nuclear tech in exchange for acquiring blueprints for Ghauri missiles.
Which got Pakistan the tag of nuclear proliferator, and is treated as nuclear pariah.

Ghauri missile might obsolete now, but Pakistan's status as nuclear proliferator will remain forever.

Not to forget it is very risky to be dependent upon a foreign nation however friendly for something as critical as strategic nuclear delivery systems.

 

[Arsalan]

There is no shame in admitting a few failures here and there. A development project is bound to have a few snags. What is shameful is how people try to JUSTIFY these failures, even try to GLORIFY them. Being optimistic is one thing but being delusional and boasting is another. Those who say that the test failure is end of the world are only as wrong as the ones who feel that the failures was there greatest achievement and there is not one as good as they are at this.

"An expert in failure" was a sarcastic remark by Jose Mourinho and not some praise!

 

[nair]

There is no shame in admitting a few failures here and there. A development project is bound to have a few snags. What is shameful is how people try to JUSTIFY these failures, even try to GLORIFY them. Being optimistic is one thing but being delusional and boasting is another. Those who say that the test failure is end of the world are only as wrong as the ones who feel that the failures was there greatest achievement and there is not one as good as they are at this.

"An expert in failure" was a sarcastic remark by Jose Mourinho and not some praise!

I always feel it is good to have a failure at the development stage than at operational stage....... We have been trained to believe that during the development of a new project (mechanical ), if you do not come across problems and failures then then there is something to be worried of......

 

[Arsalan]

I always feel it is good to have a failure at the development stage than at operational stage....... We have been trained to believe that during the development of a new project (mechanical ), if you do not come across problems and failures then then there is something to be worried of......

I agree, but the point is that this still isn't something to take lightly let alone to be proud of. Have a look at these posts, half of the members are ignoring the fact that there can be some snags at development stage while other half are trying to glorify even the failures and defending it as if it is some achievement

 

[nair]

I agree, but the point is that this still isn't something to take lightly let alone to be proud of. Have a look at these posts, half of the members are ignoring the fact that there can be some snags at development stage while other half are trying to glorify even the failures and defending it as if it is some achievement

I agree, both of them are trying hard to prove each other wrong....... These failures are good, as they direct you towards the flaw's in your design, or construction, and while trying to look for such complicated failures, they might even find few more draw backs which probably would not have noticed during the test.... It not only gives you insights towards the development of this missile but also provides you an info what you should not be doing during the development of next missile.....

 

[Arsalan]

I agree, both of them are trying hard to prove each other wrong....... These failures are good, as they direct you towards the flaw's in your design, or construction, and while trying to look for such complicated failures, they might even find few more draw backs which probably would not have noticed during the test.... It not only gives you insights towards the development of this missile but also provides you an info what you should not be doing during the development of next missile.....

They MAY be good for the DEVELOPMENT phase/project but they sure don’t certify a nations success as many here seem to be claiming. They are not a sign of some great achievement.

A failure is a failure, even if it is something that is bound to happen it should be a source of concern and not happiness, the defense here seem to think that way.

On a light note;
Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others - Otto von Bismarck

 

[indiatester]

Bhai mere.. Why you no understand sarcasm???

grrr... I did... I was just adding to it

 

[vsdave2302]

There is nothin wrong with obtaining technology from wherever we can. It shows our good relations of Pakistan with certain countries. India should follow suit instead of wasting public money on blowing up dysfunctional missiles.
Save money by buying components off the shelf. Simple

But that does not fit into our vision where we want to see ourselves. We wnat to give and not take. Taker will always get substandard goods.

 

[Viny]

That is called Re-inventing the wheel , of which there is no need and is stupid plus expensive. Thats why Pakistan Buys reliable components instead of unnecessarily building new.
India tries to make every defense project as a University project and eventually fails or makes some low quality end result at many times the cost. What India is trying to do in 2016 , Pakistan did 11 years ago beause we keep it simple.

There is no shortcut to learning and gaining knowledge.
You can buy books but not the knowledge. If this could have ever gone into heads of your leaders, nations standing on scientific knowledge would have been different.

There is saying, you give a fish to a man you feed him for a day, you teach him fishing you feed him for life.
All this learning and failures is whats building the foundation for next generation to come in and develop ahead.

 

[Arsalan]

But that does not fit into our vision where we want to see ourselves. We wnat to give and not take. Taker will always get substandard goods.

Are you calling rafale sub standard procurement?
Isn't it like blasphemy in India these days?