3 more OHP class Frigates to be delivered to Pakistan between 2014-2016.

[Rashid Mahmood]

than why not give them to our fishers ?

See my comments above.
I am totally against their acquisition.

 

[rockstar08]

See my comments above.
I am totally against their acquisition.

yep i read them already ....

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I would disagree.
OHPs are totally useless for any use by the PN.
They will be a burden on our navy and will be have no role, just like the Brooke's & Garcia's the PN operated in the 90's.

The Brookes and Garcias performed well with the Pakistani version of its Coast Guard as Patrol Vessels.

 

[Munir]

There are many strings but some strings are made bigger by us then they are. Surely Afridi has been acting without Pakistani officials but does the result make any difference? OBL was a saudi. He was linked with Al Qaida (founder) and for that reason the US invaded Afghanistan. I think sending a few choppers and ending it this way was a the least negative for Pakistan. Bad, I agree. But let us more take the deal to get our prisoners back then cry about the dead foreigners. We should remember how US killed our military on the checkpoint. Let us get our female doctor back as a trade. If Israel swaps prisoners with the Palestinians then why can we not...

 

[Imran Khan]

they will sure have harpoons and other weapons from these type-21 frigates kids don't cry now .

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

The Brookes and Garcias performed well with the Pakistani version of its Coast Guard as Patrol Vessels.

Brooke's & Garcia's (FFG's) were not part of the Coast Guard.
They were part for the PN and were on lease from the US. When the lease expired, they were sent back.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Brooke's & Garcia's (FFG's) were not part of the Coast Guard.
They were part for the PN and were on lease from the US. When the lease expired, they were sent back.

One remained and was re-painted in MSA (Coast Guard) colors.
Even with the PN, they were pretty much good Patrol Vessels.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

One remained and was re-painted in MSA (Coast Guard) colors.
Even with the PN, they were pretty much good Patrol Vessels.

None remained. All 8 went back.
The MSA ships were old Gearing class destroyers.

I have served on them, so I know....

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well if we get these fishing boats , after the upgrade we will done by 2018-2019 may be by then we will be able to use them fully

 

[Penguin]

I would disagree.
OHPs are totally useless for any use by the PN.
They will be a burden on our navy and will be have no role, just like the Brooke's & Garcia's the PN operated in the 90's.

And it was different with the ex-US Gearings, or is different with the ex-UK Type 21?

As an allround useful fleet boat, the Perry class frigates are an asset to most navies that use them. Even without their original anti-air and anti-ship capability after removal of their Mark 13 guided missile launcher, they remain extremely good at ASW, esp. when used in combination with LAMPSIII SH-60B helicopter and the SQQ-89 ASW system with associated SQR-19 towed array sonar. Don't tell me PN does not face subsurface threats...

They are intended for a nominal service life of 30 years, but as seen with many other USN classes, many ships can last a lot longer.

For those with an interest in costs, some may find this of interest http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a272492.pdf

These three Frigates are 30 years old ( Built in 1983 ). USS KLAKRING was decommissioned in March of 2013 and the other two will be decommissioned in April/May of 2014.

Yes, that is their nominal service life in the USN.

 

[Armstrong]

And it was different with the ex-US Gearings, or is different with the ex-UK Type 21?

As an allround useful fleet boat, the Perry class frigates are an asset to most navies that use them. Even without their original anti-air and anti-ship capability after removal of their Mark 13 guided missile launcher, they remain extremely good at ASW, esp. when used in combination with LAMPSIII SH-60B helicopter and the SQQ-89 ASW system with associated SQR-19 towed array sonar. Don't tell me PN does not face subsurface threats...

They are intended for a nominal service life of 30 years, but as seen with many other USN classes, many ships can last a lot longer.

For those with an interest in costs, some may find this of interest http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a272492.pdf


Yes, that is their nominal service life in the USN.

But wouldn't it make more sense to go for more F-22Ps (possibly with some upgrades) & get a reasonably good well rounded capability then to go for a vessel with 'extremely good' ASW capability but a significantly toned down anti-ship & anti-air capabilities ?

 

[Penguin]

But wouldn't it make more sense to go for more F-22Ps (possibly with some upgrades) & get a reasonably good well rounded capability then to go for a vessel with 'extremely good' ASW capability but a significantly toned down anti-ship & anti-air capabilities ?

Well, Perry's won't solve the issue of block obsolescence that PN faces. Then again, considering what Pakistan's neighbouring navies put in the water (or should I say under the water), good ASW is quite a usefull capability to have. It shouldn't be rocket science to bolt some Harpoons onto those Perry's and/or a RAM launcher. And when you do that, in the AShW and AAW departments, there is roughly parity with other type in PN again (and you still have great ASW).

As it is, F22P is ok, but doesn't excel in any particular area. Better if she got a active homing VL SAM, for starters.

In the end though, given extremely limited recources of PN, it's a matter availability, money and politics rather than what you'ld ideally get...

 

[Kompromat]

Yeah, $$ is alway a problem, hence I said acquire some more OHP is a good choice for PN

You need to know OHP with 8 cell Mk41 VLS is a very potent anti-air platform, if PN do acquire the Aussie OHP, then you can put SM2MR on OHP, which is one of the best SAM in the world

Do you have any idea when the Aussie Navy might be selling their OHPs?

Chinese frigate is generally anti-ship orientated
While PN do not have a 2-D platform in service, then you need to use 2 different type of Frigate for Hi-Lo combination

If you uses JF-17 and P-3C matched with F22P, it will only achieve a 2 Dimension defense, you still lack a dedicated AA platform to cover what your JF-17 missed, see, JF-17 is a point to point Air Defence, they can only shoot down enemy near them, when you have multiple enemy approach from different Angel and direction, each Sq. of JF-17 can only take one 1 Sqn of enemy, you need an air control platform to pick up and attack enemy air in a given AO, which PN currently lacking this ability

First of all our Navy's main goal is 'sea denial', since we are not going to be the invaders but the invaded. For that we are going to have multiple squadrons of JF-17 Block IIs ( Actual number specified yet) armed with C-802AK - CM-400AKG and Exocests along with Electronic warfare escorts , air defense net, and JF-17s armed with BVRs and other air to air armament for fleet protection.

As for, the airborne command and control is concerned, if you are talking about Airborne Early Warning and Control System. AEWCS then we already have ~ 8 in service. The one which is at the Navy's disposal is 4X ZDK-3 Karokaram Eagle AEWCS which is used in conjunction with the Air Force. It has an AESA radar like our Erieye AEWCS with a range of ~ 400kms. For ELINT and ECM, we have a small fleet of Dassault Falcon 20 air crafts.

The coast is small but the ships is necessary

Do remember Pakistani coast and the Chinese coast does not connect, it route through Indian Coast, if you stay at 8 frigate, theen you will probably got wip out in 24 hours at sea, which will be a lot harder for the Chinese to salvage the situation..

You are right, in saying that PN needs to opt for a larger fleet of frigates with Hi-Lo mix of anti ship, anti submarine and anti air capabilities. I'd like to stress again that OHPs upgraded with Genesis, due to the lack of funds is our best bet right now.

For coastal defense, Pakistan also has ~ 45 batteries of C-602 anti ship cruise missiles capable of being networked to the AEWCS. They are available in TEL platforms.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

And it was different with the ex-US Gearings, or is different with the ex-UK Type 21?

As an allround useful fleet boat, the Perry class frigates are an asset to most navies that use them. Even without their original anti-air and anti-ship capability after removal of their Mark 13 guided missile launcher, they remain extremely good at ASW, esp. when used in combination with LAMPSIII SH-60B helicopter and the SQQ-89 ASW system with associated SQR-19 towed array sonar. Don't tell me PN does not face subsurface threats...

They are intended for a nominal service life of 30 years, but as seen with many other USN classes, many ships can last a lot longer.

For those with an interest in costs, some may find this of interest http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a272492.pdf


Yes, that is their nominal service life in the USN.

We got the Gearing's in the 80's, and slowly and gradually started to upgrade them with Harpoon's, CIWS, APECS-II and by the time we upgraded some, we started to decommission the others.

The same is happening to the Type 21's. Out of 6, one is already de-commissioned, and a couple are inline.

Buying old ships (20 years +) and investing billions to upgrade their weapons & sensors does not increase their sea life. It only acts as a filler for the time being, which may look good on paper, but it is not so in actual.

OHPs will only be an asset if acquired with all of the weapons & sensors intact. Otherwise just buying a platform for later modifications will not be feasible.

They have the LM2500 GT's, which is 1970's tech for which we do not have any support and we will be dependent on GE, just like we are dependent on RR for the Type 21's GTs.

The OHP which we acquired, does not have a single weapon on board. The Sonar on board the OHP is not designed for these types of water's. We do not have the SH-60's or the SQR-19 and we don't plan to, so its of no use to talk about them.

PN does face a big sub-surface threat, and ASW is one of the major roles for Ships & the naval aviation. Seaking's, P-3C's are primarily ASW aircraft.

This has been the dilemma of PN, that we have been buying old warships and painting them to look like new, where as it does not help at all.

The PN have started a program with the F-22P's, we can plan for up gradation of the same platform in ASW, AAW, ASM role's easily and these ships will serve us for the next 25 - 30 years, if maintained properly.

The potential for these new platforms is immense, and can be a formidable Surface fleet if planned properly.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

One thing that is never clear to me is what is our strategy for air defence of these ships. We don't have a sufficient Air crafts for Navy Operations , just wondering how can we protect these assets in Sea ?

Specially considering foes that operate aircraft carriers which come with loaded planes threat

Will the OHP make Pakistan a recognized blue water Navy and not just regional waters force ?

10-15 Frigates does give us some what more credibility alot better then what we started with 10 years ago etc

Just don't see the same level of enthusiasm from community as we did for the first OHP frigate when we got that one all stripped down barebone ship