3 martyred while thwarting cross border terrorist attack from Afghanistan at Kharsin Sector

[TheSolution]

We already have hudood & blasphemy laws. How can you be opposed to everything else? lol Like these are laws ppl consider one of the most illiberal.

Our constitution says laws should be according to islam. The CII is supposed to look at laws to determine whether they're in line with sharia. It's basically sharia already. But parts of the law are still running on British era laws.

My only problem with relying too much on an Islamic narrative is that it creates a radical environment which is more toxic, not moderate. This breeds mullahs and those who are anti-progress/development because they will always find a way to label it haram.

Every single policy or law that is implemented should be backed up with logic and reasoning, if you can't back it up then you're running a country with a blind fold.

Secondly, no matter how Islamic you are, TTP and their friends will always peddle a more Islamic narrative, try as hard as you like but this will always be the case...

There should be a healthy mix of Islam/patriotism.

When people feel included in the state and equally represented, they won't be anti-Pakistan.

 

[EternalMortal]

My only problem with relying too much on an Islamic narrative is that it creates a radical environment which is more toxic, not moderate. This breeds mullahs and those who are anti-progress/development because they will always find a way to label it haram.

Every single policy or law that is implemented should be backed up with logic and reasoning, if you can't back it up then you're running a country with a blind fold.

Secondly, no matter how Islamic you are, TTP and their friends will always peddle a more Islamic narrative, try as hard as you like but this will always be the case...

There should be a healthy mix of Islam/patriotism.

When people feel included in the state and equally represented, they won't be anti-Pakistan.

By islamic narrative I mean 1st reform the system. 2nd you make sure ppl see them as khawarij. It's not going to make things more toxic.

What you need is a "professional" class of licensed scholars same as doctors. I don't know any major scholars today that's anti-development. Muslims have never had a conflict b/w theology & science to begin with.
This isn't pre-colonial times. Muslims have learned our lesson. Even the hardcore wahabbis understand that we need to focus more on STEM.

"Secondly, no matter how Islamic you are, TTP and their friends will always peddle a more Islamic narrative"

Doesn't mean we can't fix ourselves. At the very least our narrative will be stronger than it is now.

 

[EternalMortal]

Islam is too big for any state to manipulate like that. Even in countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia, there are dissenters and you know what happens with them. Islam can be seen as an uncompromising religion. I am a Shia and TTP is obviously a bigger enemy of mine than it is on average Pakistani Sunni, but I can sympathize with their reason for declaring war on Pakistan,. They simply had declared jihad against a country which was supporting taghut against a Muslim country. No propaganda could have countered this. Islam doesn't care for modern geopolitics but Muslims have too. I am glad that I am a Shia and can play the taqiyaa card but for the rest of you guys, things are not so black and white.

It's not manipulation. Do states manipulate doctors or other licensed professionals? This way ensures that the state (not gov) can indirectly regulate them without interfering & controlling them.

I agree nothing could have countered that but you will always have dissent no matter what ideology you follow or what your politics are. The goal is to limit their support as much as possible. This means taking away their narrative.

For e.g. If Musharraf had leveraged islamic justifications to let muslims know he was forced to let Americans invade Afghanistan otherwise Pakistan itself would be destroyed, he would have had less opposition. If he had leveraged hadith on khawarij to make tribals give up AQ there would have been less resistance. Doesn't mean there would have been zero resistance but still better than something.

 

[TheSolution]

For them to be declared Khawarij, you first have to declare Pakistan as an equivalent of an Islamic Caliphate. Do you realize the implications of doing that? Plus don't take the Mullahs and their followers as fools, Mullahs can be bad guys but by definition the domain of theology and jurisprudence is theirs and they have more hold over the people than the state. But I don't want to discuss in detail about this lest I get labelled a sectarian or a TTP sympathizer. This is a complex problem but if the rest of Islamic world has adopted, so will Pakistan. InshaAllah.

Why would someone call you a TTP sympathizer?

What's your opinion on all this?

 

[TheSolution]

For the same reason criticizing Imran Khan will get you labelled a Patwari.

People don't like to entertain the perspective of their enemies. It's easier to dehumanize them and call for their elimination.

Hmm...

So do you actually support TTP or not? Or are you saying that you are understanding of their perspective on things?

 

[Wood]

Some here have suggested embracing Islam more fervently to satisfy Taliban. Methinks the only way to satisfy the Taliban this way is to let them frame the rules and enforce them in daily life

 

[SaadH]

If you think Balochistan being populated by Afghans is “incompetence” I got news for ya

Our lovely Baloch brothers (BNP and everyone except BLA) and JSQM think Afghans coming to Balochistan and Sindh is an ISI saazish made to make them a minority and reduce their political power in their provinces.

It’s the reason why Pashtuns became majority of Balochistan very quickly after 1980. (Afghans)

The only other person who knows and sees this and the other sides rhetoric on this is @pakpride00090

It’s very surprising no one else is even aware.



Several sectarian attacks still happening in Afg. What happened yesterday reminded me of 2003 Quetta. Very very sad.



For a reason



Having Bugtis and other chiefs in majority is much worse than Afghans. I’ll tell you that.

Typical mil-establishment's double game in order to hedge against the Baloch insurgency, Afghans were allowed in Balochistan to make them a minority in their own province, much in line of allowing target killers of MQM to terrorize urban sindh for three decades. And now they are also making a come back in Karachi.

 

[EternalMortal]

For them to be declared Khawarij, you first have to declare Pakistan as an equivalent of an Islamic Caliphate.

No, you don't. Them being khawarij is independent of whether Pakistan is a caliphate or not.

 

[TheSolution]

Typical mil-establishment's double game in order to hedge against the Baloch insurgency, Afghans were allowed in Balochistan to make them a minority in their own province, much in line of allowing target killers of MQM to terrorize urban sindh for three decades. And now they are also making a come back in Karachi.

It's not that good of a hedge either lmao

Because Afghans claim Balochistan for themselves and now you are populating it with them

 

[TheSolution]

Embracing Islam is good, embracing Islam to satisfy someone other than Allah is not good.

Moderate Islam with a healthy mix of patriotism is the only solution.

Going full on Islamic extremist mode is a bad idea when your enemy has one of the most powerful Islamic narratives, most people will side with their opinion

We want equal rights and education for our women, and for our minorities, not the BS they do.

 

[SaadH]

It's not that good of a hedge either lmao

Because Afghans claim Balochistan for themselves and now you are populating it with them

Their double game usually comes back to bite them in the behind...

 

[TheSolution]

I'll give you something even better. No one should try to enforce their interpretation of Islam on others. Of course that doesn't mean we don't run our country according to our shared cultural and religious values. Only in the matter of differences do we show restraint and respect without resorting to violence. This is different from secularism where you allow every societal fitna to run wild. This is how modern Pakistan works, extremist elements are on the fringes. Pakistanis need to realize the blessing that is Pakistan and tone down their stupidity.

Based

I don't care about anyone else's beliefs, only thing I ask for from everyone is respect for others.

We can all agree on blanket rulings that should be banned, monitored in a way and/or not promoted. (Things like alcohol, drugs, LGBT, prostitution)

 

[Rafi]

Staying away from politics would mean that the Army leadership shouldn’t have conspired to overthrow a democratically elected PTI government and installed a corrupt PDM regime and therefore committed treason.

Now that they have done that, yes, the responsibility lies with the same Army leadership to fix the mess they created and make sure free and fair elections are held - and we know that the PTI would win free and fair elections.

LoL if there are free and fair elections you have to except that these parties will also get significant representation, but you don't want to hear that.

 

[Pak Nationalist]

I wanted to give a piece of my mind to PTI partisans on this forum who were going on about violating the "sovereignty" of Afghanistan (a country without a globally recognized govt) in their newfound affection for those who these bigots (quam e youth) used to call Namak Haraam and contempt for the Pakistani soldier who is laying down his life daily on the border like this. Unfortunately, that thread is lost.

This lot has the gall to talk about nationalism, national independence, and sovereignty. I mean a lot that has no issue with the butchery of Pakistani soldiers and the orphaning of their children by TTP which sits pretty under the protection of the Afghan Taliban, but cries rivers on the cOlLaTeRaL dAmAgE on those who it used to call namak haram. The worship of Imran Khan has changed their worldview by 180 degrees.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

LoL if there are free and fair elections you have to except that these parties will also get significant representation, but you don't want to hear that.

They’ll get some representation - not significant. Only Army and PDM touts think that the PMLN & PPP will stop the PTI from winning a landslide in a free and fair election.