3 Israeli soldiers shot dead in Ramallah.

[waz]

Sorry for the interruption folks carry on.

 

[Beny Karachun]

And undercover soldiers in the West Bank used to arrest Palestinian demonstrators:

..
..

Musta'ribeen, Israel's agents who pose as Palestinians

They are dressed like Palestinian protesters, speak with the same accents and expressions, and show the same mannerisms. Their faces covered with checkered keffiyehs or balaclavas, they chant against the Israeli army and sometimes throw stones in the direction of the soldiers, all while drawing in other protesters as they get closer and closer to the army

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/12/musta-israel-agents-pose-palestinians-171218061118857.html

You know the saying "If you don't, then why must we?"

Usraeli special forces soldiers infiltrated Gaza in civilian clothes and killed a Hamas leader.. not once or twice, this is a well known tactic used by Usrael.. this is for anyone talking about the Geneva convention..

Those Hamas leaders are dressed as civilians too.

No offense dude but no one cares about this stuff. We're just following current events, and it is lawful to target Israeli soldiers in the West Bank. You seem to be trying to argue it is lawful but also a war crime. There is no international armed conflict in the West Bank, there is no Palestinian military. Those rules of war cannot be applied to the West Bank. And rather applied to military bodies, of which there are none in the West Bank.

International Law does not address civilian resistance to occupation. What you are citing is referring to traditional state of war between two nations.

If you don't care how come you're calling anyone but yourselves war criminals?

 

[omega supremme]

I have no idea how you've got to that conclusion.

And I also don't understandad why you call Palestinians terrorists while you people have taken there land by brutality while you are the real terrorists not only in the eye of muslims but in the eyes of the world as well.

 

[Hack-Hook]

The real enemy of the West Bankers and Gazans (WBG) are the Islamists such as Hamas and Hezbollah (H&H)
They start something and then the common WBGs get retaliated against, following which the H&H show the world these dead bodies to look like those fighting for 'victims' and then the cycle of violence continues to no end.

I wonder what's the relation of Hezbollah with west bank and Gaza ? And how nationalist group like Hezbollah become Islamist group ?

I suggest you read https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/appl...t&documentId=3EA868BE16BCBB86C12563CD0051DB0B

View attachment 526401

You are not allowed to attack military targets while dressed as a civilian.
That includes carrying a concealed gun, which you pull and fire when close to a soldier.
It includes entering a civilian bus containing soldiers on leave, blowing youself up while dressed in civilian clothes.
Backstabbing a soldier after he passes you in the street.
All highly illegal.

You should normally wear a military uniform, or at least wear a band on the arm, or similar.
When doing the latter, you must be part of a group with a clear military organisation.
An individual which spontaneously takes on an armband and kills a soldier is also a criminal.
If civilians want to form a resistance movement, they have to organize themselves and elect a leader, otherwise - war crimes.

Basically any time when you use the protection the Geneva Convention gives to civilians as a way to get an advantage in attack, there is most likely a clause making you a war criminal.


As long as they are civilians, any attack on soldiers is a war crime.
Civilians are NOT allowed to participate in war.
Civilians must first change status to a combatant, after that they are allowed to attack their enemy.

You are not allowed to do that if you are military . that article do not apply to non military persons .

It is well known that Palestinians treat their responsibilities under the Geneva Conventions by contempt, but expect to be fully protected...

The Geneva convention is not restricted to International armed conflicts.
It is applicable to the West Bank, since the Palestinian Authority has signed the Geneva Convention in 2014.
It is lawful for Palestinian combatants to fight Israeli soldiers.
It is unlawful for Palestinian civilians to fight Israeli soldiers.
A civilian can become a combatant by following certain procedures described in the convention,
but if he does not do that, he becomes a criminal.

Did Palestinian authority committed attack or it was a dude who was fed up with the situation?

 

[Falcon29]

Palestinian teen shot, killed by Israeli forces in al-Bireh

RAMALLAH (Ma'an) -- A 16-year-old Palestinian was shot and killed by Israeli forces during clashes that erupted in the al-Jalazun refugee camp north of al-Bireh in the central occupied West Bank, on Friday evening.

The Palestinian Ministry of Health confirmed that a Palestinian from the al-Jalazun refugee camp arrived to the Palestine Medical Center in a critical condition.

Sources added that the teen was injured with live bullets in the abdomen.

The ministry identified the killed teen as Mahmoud Youssef Nakhleh.

Israeli forces opened fire at the teen from a very close range; from less than 10 meters away.

Israeli soldiers attempted to detain Nakhleh afterwards, however, Palestinian Red Crescent paramedics were able to take him and transfer him to the Palestine Medical Center after having to quarrel Israeli soldiers for more than 30 minutes.

...
...

https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=782092

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I wonder what's the relation of Hezbollah with west bank and Gaza ? And how nationalist group like Hezbollah become Islamist group ?


You are not allowed to do that if you are military . that article do not apply to non military persons .


Did Palestinian authority committed attack or it was a dude who was fed up with the situation?

You are totally wrong.
The Geneva Convention is pretty clear on that any civilian that participates in war, is a war criminal.
Civilians that want to participate have to change status to ”combatant” before they participate.
They may not appear as civilians during any combat.

I wonder what's the relation of Hezbollah with west bank and Gaza ? And how nationalist group like Hezbollah become Islamist group ?


You are not allowed to do that if you are military . that article do not apply to non military persons .


Did Palestinian authority committed attack or it was a dude who was fed up with the situation?

A dude which is fed up with situation and shoots a soldier while appearing as a civilian, is a war criminal.
If the Palestinian Authority orders someone to attack an Israeli soldier while dressed as a civilian, that perpetrator is a war criminal, and the Palestinian Authority can be convicted in a trial.
They cannot be convicted in the first case, unless they encourage such activities by rewarding the families of the perpetrator.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Israel soldiers went into west bank and killed 2 Palestinian.

In return 3 Israeli soldiers have been killed.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1073113486421573632

https://twitter.com/x/status/1073176526160621569

https://twitter.com/x/status/1073173798386655235

I am personally not happy over the killings of Israeli soldiers, as they were also children of somebody. So RIP.
But, now the reaction by Israelis will justify the killing of these soldiers, and many will say they deserved it(which is true up to an extent).
This has no ending.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

And undercover soldiers in the West Bank used to arrest Palestinian demonstrators:

..
..

Musta'ribeen, Israel's agents who pose as Palestinians

They are dressed like Palestinian protesters, speak with the same accents and expressions, and show the same mannerisms. Their faces covered with checkered keffiyehs or balaclavas, they chant against the Israeli army and sometimes throw stones in the direction of the soldiers, all while drawing in other protesters as they get closer and closer to the army

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/12/musta-israel-agents-pose-palestinians-171218061118857.html

Israeli soldiers dressed and acting like Palestinian protestors does not have the protection of the Geneva convention, if their activities are considered espionage.
Pretending to be a Palestinian right in front of another Israeli soldier is hardly espionage.
Infiltrating meetings where Palestinians plan resistance activities is definitely espionage, and then the soldiers lose the protection of the Geneva Convention, unless they manage to change clothes to Israeli Uniform before they are caught. Then they should be treated as prisoners of war.

 

[Falcon29]

Guys ignore the AP guy, he is an Islamophobic troll who randomly brings up international war laws only in threads related to Palestinians. It's his way of showing frustration and hatred towards Palestinian people. The moderators will deal with him, he got a warning for this trolling behavior in the past and I have him on ignore now.

Mods have told him in past to make separate thread for off topic posts and he doesn't listen. If he has some off topic persuasive essay he wants to write, he needs to create a separate thread for it. Anymore posts like this will result in an ban.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Guys ignore the AP guy, he is an Islamophobic troll who randomly brings up international war laws only in threads related to Palestinians. It's his way of showing frustration and hatred towards Palestinian people. The moderators will deal with him, he got a warning for this trolling behavior in the past and I have him on ignore now.

Mods have told him in past to make separate thread for off topic posts and he doesn't listen. If he has some off topic persuasive essay he wants to write, he needs to create a separate thread for it. Anymore posts like this will result in an ban.

Because he says the truth? You're the one that's supposed to be ignored, pathetic waste of oxygen.

 

[Hack-Hook]

You are totally wrong.
The Geneva Convention is pretty clear on that any civilian that participates in war, is a war criminal.
Civilians that want to participate have to change status to ”combatant” before they participate.
They may not appear as civilians during any combat.


A dude which is fed up with situation and shoots a soldier while appearing as a civilian, is a war criminal.
If the Palestinian Authority orders someone to attack an Israeli soldier while dressed as a civilian, that perpetrator is a war criminal, and the Palestinian Authority can be convicted in a trial.
They cannot be convicted in the first case, unless they encourage such activities by rewarding the families of the perpetrator.

geneva Convention won't say if a combatant don't have a uniform is war criminal , it say if he don't have a uniform then he won't enjoy the protection of the convention

and then the soldiers lose the protection of the Geneva Convention, unless they manage to change clothes to Israeli Uniform before they are caught. Then they should be treated as prisoners of war.

read part 4 of your article again , if he captured before returning to their force he is spy even he manage to change clothes before capture.

Because he says the truth? You're the one that's supposed to be ignored, pathetic waste of oxygen.

no its distortion of the truth , first nowhere in the convection say if you fight in plainclothes you are terrorist or war criminal, it say you are considered spy if you are not resident of the area and loose the protection of the convection and if you are resident of the area you are not even considered a spy and benefit from the status of war prisoner and these are all according to his posting .

by the way your clothes won't make you a terrorist or war criminal it's your action that decide on that . a suicide bomber who detonate the bomb inside enemy military barrack is not a terrorist a pilot who deliberately bomb a civilian shelter is clearly a war criminal .

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

geneva Convention won't say if a combatant don't have a uniform is war criminal , it say if he don't have a uniform then he won't enjoy the protection of the convention


read part 4 of your article again , if he captured before returning to their force he is spy even he manage to change clothes before capture.

no its distortion of the truth , first nowhere in the convection say if you fight in plainclothes you are terrorist or war criminal, it say you are considered spy if you are not resident of the area and loose the protection of the convection and if you are resident of the area you are not even considered a spy and benefit from the status of war prisoner and these are all according to his posting .

by the way your clothes won't make you a terrorist or war criminal it's your action that decide on that . a suicide bomber who detonate the bomb inside enemy military barrack is not a terrorist a pilot who deliberately bomb a civilian shelter is clearly a war criminal .

The Geneva Convention says that anyone taking part in combat must wear sign that mark him out as a combatant.
From that it follows that anyone taking part in combat while not wearing such signs is a war criminal.
Once a soldier dons a uniform, he is a part of the force, thus he has ”rejoined”.
A suicide bomber that appears as a civilian and detonates a bomb in an enemy barrack is most definitely a war criminal, committing an act of perfidy.
A pilot who deliberately bomb a civilian shelter may be a war criminal, but only under certain conditions.

A civilian shelter may have a military value - no war crime.
It is believed that the civilian shelter has a military value, but is hasn’t - no war crime = mistake.
The pilot is told to bomb a house, and bombs another house containing the civilian shelter - no war crime.
It is only a war crime if the pilot is aware that the house is not a military target and bombs it anyway.

Guys ignore the AP guy, he is an Islamophobic troll who randomly brings up international war laws only in threads related to Palestinians. It's his way of showing frustration and hatred towards Palestinian people. The moderators will deal with him, he got a warning for this trolling behavior in the past and I have him on ignore now.

Mods have told him in past to make separate thread for off topic posts and he doesn't listen. If he has some off topic persuasive essay he wants to write, he needs to create a separate thread for it. Anymore posts like this will result in an ban.

You do not like Your crimes to be exposed, I guess.
It is hard to be ”the good guys” when Your side is violating every rule in the book.

 

[Hack-Hook]

The Geneva Convention says that anyone taking part in combat must wear sign that mark him out as a combatant.
From that it follows that anyone taking part in combat while not wearing such signs is a war criminal.

I like to knew exactly where in Geneva Convection it stated that ?
I even pointed to your post that it show a person can wear plain clothes and fight and benefit from Geneva Convection if He/She is resident of that area

A suicide bomber that appears as a civilian and detonates a bomb in an enemy barrack is most definitely a war criminal, committing an act of perfidy.
A pilot who deliberately bomb a civilian shelter may be a war criminal, but only under certain conditions.

A civilian shelter may have a military value - no war crime.
It is believed that the civilian shelter has a military value, but is hasn’t - no war crime = mistake.
The pilot is told to bomb a house, and bombs another house containing the civilian shelter - no war crime.
It is only a war crime if the pilot is aware that the house is not a military target and bombs it anyway.

How convenient for the technologically advanced ones , how convenient for oppressing occupiers
and can you please tell me where it stated as such ?

 

[Stryker1982]

Israel's survival is dependent on how destroyed and war torn their neighbors are. Strong Arab nations around Israeli is never tolerated which is why they are poison to the region.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I like to knew exactly where in Geneva Convection it stated that ?
I even pointed to your post that it show a person can wear plain clothes and fight and benefit from Geneva Convection if He/She is resident of that area

The section you copied is about spying. A resident may collect information about the enemy. He must not actively engage in fighting.

The Geneva Convention states which people are entitled to become prisoners of war.
People that do not have the right to become prisoners of war include:

• Spies which are caught red handed
• Mercenaries
• Civilians which fight outside the rules of the Article 4 of the third Geneva Convention.

You also have article 37 which I already quoted.

Article 37 [ Link ] -- Prohibition of perfidy

1. It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary by resort to perfidy. Acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or is obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence, shall constitute perfidy. The following acts are examples of perfidy:
...
(c) the feigning of civilian, non-combatant status;
...

So if you approach a soldier in a civilian car, wearing civilian clothes and then you suddenly pick up a gun and shoot the soldier, then you resort to perfidy.
Perfidy is prohibited, so you have committed a war crime.
You are not entitled to become a prisoner of war if caught, you can be shot if captured.

How convenient for the technologically advanced ones , how convenient for oppressing occupiers
and can you please tell me where it stated as such ?

Fourth Geneva Convention.
ARTICLE 28 [ Link ]

The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.

If a civilian shelter is used to store arms, it is not a war crime to attack it.

Here is the Red Cross definition of war crimes:
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_rul_rule156

The key word is ”wilful”.

That means that if you kill a civilian, it is not a war crime if you believe
the attack is justified according to laws of war.

Consider the following situation.
A sniper shoots several enemy soldiers from a civilian building, and secretly leaves.
Only civilians remain in the building, so this is no longer a military target.

The surviving soldiers call in an air strike which destroys the building and kills the civilians present 5 minutes after the sniper left.

The soldiers do not know that the sniper left.
The soldiers do not know that there are civilians in the building.

Thus, there is no war crime.