27 May Bombing of Lahore Rescue15 Building

[third eye]

Fatman,

I concur & appreciate the sentiments expressed in your post.

The fact is that there is no way the probs we face in our part of the world can be resolved or contained / prevented by the police.

Just look at our Police ( it does not matter if they are in E or W Punjab or anywhere for that matter). They are neither trained, equipped, mentally built or taught to expect the kind of threat we expect them to handle.

A baton is good enough to handle hawkers but not the kind of threat we face. Over the yrs the obsession with ' security' has denuded the basic building block of policing which was in place for centuries.. the village chowkidar & in urban areas the beat constable. These gents gained info just by hanging around with a ear to the ground. Presence of new ppl in each locality, sudden changes in arrival / movement etc were observed and so on. Hawkers, sweepers, Dhobi's , servants etc formed a valuable start point in intel gathering.

This vital start point in intel gathering has withered. This & other methods of intel need to be done for police to be pro active & not reactive.

 

[All-Green]

In the midst of all the hue and cry about equipment, training etc we forget one thing as rightly pointed out by fatman and third eye.

The grass root level raw intelligence which comes from the ordinary constables and their daily interaction with the people in their domain is a very critical aspect of keeping check
...certainly we cannot expect ISI to be in every street and on top of all the millions of minor incidents or occurances which maybe of some value to the intelligence agencies.
The police are underpaid, understaffed and on top of it the best are reserved as protectors of vips.
I was shocked to find out that usually the police station having a strength of 30-40 odd policemen maybe 30-50% occupied, while the rest maybe present in the hometowns, houses or villages of their superior officers.
The constant use of police to further political goals of our politicians has made it most inefficient and its present contribution to the intelligence gathering is very doubtul.

With the first line of defence being this weak we do not stand a chance of winning the intelligence war to the degree that all such plans are foiled in time.

The interior ministry and the democratic government have to focus on the police and ensure necessary coherence of policies governing the use of Police and its operational doctrine.

I am never in favour of breaking down something and reconstructing it but i saw one example recently which i have to quote since it is very relevant.

The Punjab Traffic Police which was notorious for its corruption and bribery culture was revolutionized by some drastic steps.
The former Punjab government trained an entirely new traffic police force with young wardens who were educted and motivated.
They were given new uniforms and a new feeling of professional pride and discipline was instilled in them.
The were made to believe that they were not responsible for the past reputation of Punjab Traffic Police and they had no stigma attached to their uniform. Not to mention that they were also paid well and as a result of all these factors they developed certain professional pride.
The new lot is a stark contrast and very strict with traffic violations and does not take nonsense.

The former traffic police was spread out and spread thin into the rural areas of Punjab where they could not do much in way of bribery and corruption.

It seems like there was never any major corruption within the traffic police. The improvement in their performance is remarkable.

What i am trying to say is that sometimes a drastic step needs to be taken.
Sometimes even inducting good people into a notorious/corrupt force will also not improve the situation much.
The young ones will always be labelled by the common man in light of the routinely practiced corrupt actions of their seniors and will eventually become corrupt themselves as a consequence of their black sheep tag, the negative influence of seniors and entirely inadequate pay and facilities in exchange for honest work which is very tough.
In our police the experienced lot is quite corrupt so whatever you do now, as long as they are incharge of a policestation etc. you can expect negligence and corruption even if you double their pays.

Lets face it, the Police is ridiculed/hated by all people and maybe time has come for a new beginning!
I am sure that if above step worked in traffic police it can also work here.

 

[brilTek]

Criminal Negligence Once Again by Punjab Govt.

Govt. ignored the threat despite giving clear warning & informing whereabouts of possible target location.

Published in express newspaper today

 

[brilTek]

Terrorist Pic

Pics published in daily Aaj Kal of terrorist firing at security forces from nearby building

Face is not clear though but clothes are very similar to one suspect arrested by police






Now compare clothes colour and hair style with this pic, It's striking resemblance. I think police nabbed the right guy.

 

[BaburCM]

Sorry about the late reply .. I think the first part is a good proposal .. but as you suggest heeds little to no result .. Whereas the second part of your proposal .. The Turkish army were going after a few straw huts with radios and a few thousand men .. but the important part is .... It was IRAQ .. a nation where chaos was at an all time high and the US even though explained their point had no vested interests with turkey and vice versa .. They did not constantly say you have destroyed our border with your fighting .. give us money .. They did not do that .. they took care of it .. like men .. therefore had no obligation to listen to their complains .. Now I am all for your third proposal which is to kill the ones we have right now .. We are in a long drawn out war with them .. we have to accept it that our beggary has brought this upon us .. When the CIA and ISI created our little problem they did not have this in mind .. The KGB remembers what Pakistan did to them a decade or two ago ... They remember it very well .. with Israel and India on the band wagon and some checking and sustaining operations from our own friends the CIA .. who were tired of cross border infiltrations themselves and watched our army do little to nothing did this to us.. we are left all alone .. as usual we can keep saying lets do this and lets do that .. we can simply not do any of those things .. we are cornered by our own commitments to our financier.. Which our ministers can go throw in the strip clubs in New York .. How the blood of our people is being thrown at some naked women is beyond me .. You want to do something .. create a death squad .. take out every crooked politician you know .. and let it be known the same fate awaits for anyone who decides to be a traitor to the people of Pakistan .. as for our religion not permitting us to kill .. then we are back to square one ..

No probs. The reason why we have to get our message across is to make sure that we aren’t held responsible if we ever intend to go after the terrorists in Afghanistan. We will eventually because we have no other option. India needs to know that setting up terrorist consulates against Pakistan will not be tolerated in any way. Uncle Yank turning a blind to this problem should also be approached accordingly. We have to make our intentions clear to the world. Regardless, the Turks knew that their security was at stake and took the appropriate action. The Turkish example highlights the urgency to take a proactive approach rather than a reactive one. I’m not denying that part of the problem exists on our side. However, we have to also acknowledge that the Yanks and their coalition aren’t doing the best of job in handling the miscreants on their side. This is creating a lot of problems for Pakistan. The miscreants reorganize, regroup and rearm themselves on the other side and enter Pakistani side of the border. I fully agree that Pakistan has complicated matters by accepting US aids. You become dependant and prone to blackmail. The aids money should be totally rejected. I’ve already explained that Pakistan needs solid trade agreements instead of aids attached with a zillion strings. Instead of begging for peanuts aids the GoP needs to press for long lasting free trade agreements with the US and the rest. The amount of trade restrictions etc. need to lifted. The third proposal is something that everyone agrees on. Pakistan simply cannot afford to become a sanctuary for extremists that challenge the writ and security of the land. We can achieve anything, it’s only a matter of political willingness and honest leadership that realizes the stakes. How far are we willing to go for achieving our interests? Of course, the Pakistani establishment made some fatal mistakes in the past and everyone is paying the price now. However, things will have to be turned around. Failure isn't an option.

 

[zubair723]

We need surgical airstrikes or missile strikes on INDIAN SPONSORED TERROR camps & consulates in AFGHANISTAN
Also ideal oppurtunity to battle test your missiles

 

[All-Green]

We need surgical airstrikes or missile strikes on INDIAN SPONSORED TERROR camps & consulates in AFGHANISTAN
Also ideal oppurtunity to battle test your missiles

What about the terrorists who have penetrated Pakistan and have base of operations here?
Should we not act against them and rip apart their support structure here?

 

[ANDUBYLL]

What about the terrorists who have penetrated Pakistan and have base of operations here?
Should we not act against them and rip apart their support structure here?

I am still looking for that one single proof of clear Indian involvement. Right from since the war on terror was initiated to the present moment, many Pakistanis have alluded to Indian evidence usually presenting flimsy evidence like uncircumsized p*** .

However unless and until , one smoking gun is presented, documenting a 100% clear link to India, all that is being presented here is hogwash !!

 

[Enigma SIG]

However unless and until , one smoking gun is presented, documenting a 100% clear link to India, all that is being presented here is hogwash !!

Tip: change the event to mumbai attacks:

However unless and until , one smoking gun is presented, documenting a 100% clear link to Pakistani state machinery, all that is being presented on Indian channels is hogwash !!



Your people were so emotional at that time they would have agreed to nuke all of Pakistan....

 

[zubair723]

What about the terrorists who have penetrated Pakistan and have base of operations here?
Should we not act against them and rip apart their support structure here?

Well if all feeding is done from there, why not cut the supply line and drain them

 

[All-Green]

I am still looking for that one single proof of clear Indian involvement. Right from since the war on terror was initiated to the present moment, many Pakistanis have alluded to Indian evidence usually presenting flimsy evidence like uncircumsized p*** .

However unless and until , one smoking gun is presented, documenting a 100% clear link to India, all that is being presented here is hogwash !!

I am certainly not distorting anything or indulging in hogwash if that is what you are suggesting.

The probable list of countries that could support TTP covertly not only includes India but many more countries who may have a reason or two to destabilize and weaken Pakistan. The reason maybe religious, territorial, resources, old enmity etc.

Which country is actually involved is not something i can conclude with 100% assurity, but that is just me.
It is natural for one to attribute such actions to its worst enemies and sadly that is still what Pakistan and India are.
The worsening of relations and not to mention the water war which India is starting really does make most Pakistanis wonder whether India is for or against TTP, since Pakistan is being surrounded by problems.

I still maintain that even if there is a foreign hand they cannot carry out these sort of attacks without inside support and that is what i mean by penetration of terrorists in Pakistan.

Regarding evidence, there are not many covert operations which leave a lot of evidence.
India claimed to be sure of Pakistan State involvement but what evidence have they produced?

Bottomline is that there is no trust between both countries and that needs to be addressed on now or never basis...both can gain much by being mindful of eachother.

 

[Patriot]

2 ISI Colonels dead.These bastards are gonna pay for this..ISI will now make sure these bastards are sent to hell!

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

I think we need improve our intell, especially the ground assets operating. More ever We should clean the internal mess as soon as possible However at the same time effective responce to such an incident should also be given .

 

[Always Neutral]

2 ISI Colonels dead.These bastards are gonna pay for this..ISI will now make sure these bastards are sent to hell!

Sad the creators become the target of their own toys very much like the LTTE and India fiasco.

While the PA will and should prevail but in the long run its going to suck in the PA on the scale of IA (in Kashmir) for maintaining the peace for the next 20 years. I forsee more such bombings till BM meets his maker.

Regards

 

[BaburCM]

^^ Another self-proclaimed Houdini professor that foresees and predicts the outcomes of future world events. We just have so many of them on this forum. Let's just leave the outcome to the future.