25% IAF’s AJT Hawks grounded for want of spare parts, says Antony

[sudhir007]

25% IAF’s AJT Hawks grounded for want of spare parts, says Antony | idrw.org

In a major blow for the pilot training programme of the Air Force, it has emerged that almost 25 per cent of the Hawk advanced trainer fleet has been grounded due to severe lack of spares. In a startling disclosure in Parliament, Defence Minister A K Antony admitted that 16 aircraft are on ground for the want of spares.

This has come as a surprise, given that the fleet is relatively new, with the first trainers inducted in 2008. A total of 66 Hawk trainers are currently in service with the IAF and are used for the final stage training of pilots. The grounding of 25 per cent of this fleet has come at a bad time for the IAF, given that it currently has no basic trainer aircraft in service after the grounding of the HPT 32 fleet over two years ago.

Antony said that efforts are on to procure spares for the grounded aircraft but did not go into details of the shortages.

A lack of spares and complaints from the IAF that the trainers have been fitted with old parts has been a recurring headache with the Hawk fleet. As reported by The Indian Express in 2008, the trainers faced several spares-related problems after they were inducted. In fact, the fleet was grounded for a week in May that year after a trainer crashed. While the crash was blamed on pilot error, the IAF complained that it was facing a serious problem of spares with the serviceability rate of the fleet at 40 per cent.

The consistent failure to supply spares on time had led the ministry to impose a fine on British manufacturer BAE Systems in 2010.

In December 2011, a £59 million contract for spares was signed with BAE to smooth out the problems but serious gaps in the support package remain, as revealed by Antony.

 

[Nishan_101]

How much Hawks they have and how much they require in total....

 

[PRINCE_THE_SHOWSTOPPER]

How much Hawks they have and how much they require in total....

66 now and in july 2010,it was announced another 57 to be built by HAL under license from BAE

 

[zaxcolix]

New RFP for 20 Hawk by IAF takes up the total order to 143 Trainers making India the 3rd largest operator of HAWK AJT.

HAL is 'manufacturing' HAWKs locally. Its a new aircraft so why is there a need for 'spares' ?

If HAL is indeed manufacturing AJT 'parts' locally why is there shortage of 'spares' ?

BTW ...thanks to 'indigenous' manufacture of HAWKS, the cost per aircraft is only '25 million $'

 

[Mani2020]

New RFP for 20 Hawk by IAF takes up the total order to 143 Trainers making India the 3rd largest operator of HAWK AJT.

HAL is 'manufacturing' HAWKs locally. Its a new aircraft so why is there a need for 'spares' ?

If HAL is indeed manufacturing AJT 'parts' locally why is there shortage of 'spares' ?

BTW ...thanks to 'indigenous' manufacture of HAWKS, the cost per aircraft is only '25 million $'

thats a huge cost considering its a training aircraft, that means 2 hawks = 1 f-16 block 52 ...for the price of 143 hawks 71 f-16s can be bought ....eww

 

[anant_s]

is there more than what meets the eye?
Considering the fact that BAE is still vying for more trainer contracts, it does look little baffling that spare support isn't good. I mean Russians are already trying to push YAK trainers just in case, BAE can't be complacent.
& i suppose the original contract called for ToT and one can therefore safely assume that HAL would have developed vendors/manufacturing capability for spares in last few years.
Seems more like a case of procurement schedule gone wrong.

 

[arp2041]

thats a huge cost considering its a training aircraft, that means 2 hawks = 1 f-16 block 52 ...for the price of 143 hawks 71 f-16s can be bought ....eww

Mate u are not taking into consideration that AJT Hawks are the most popular AJTs around the world AFs, as much as 18 countries have procured it over the year, it has literally revolutionized the IAF's training program & now IAF is not at all worried about delays in IJT Sitara project of HAL as after the basic trainer (to be inducted from Switzerland) a trainee can directly switch to the Hawks which can act both as IJTs as well as AJTs. IAF is in love with these birds, after initial order of 66, there was a follow-on order for another 57 (40 for IAF & 17 for IN) & plans are finalized for inducting 20 more for there aerobatic team Surya Kiran, the fact that even the IN preferred it speaks volumes about the AJT. Plus it can be lightly armed & used for small operations at a time of emergency, so it is a truly PAISA WASOOL ac.

Yes, we can replace 143 Hawks with 71 F-16s but 71 F-16s can't act as 143 AJTs.

 

[The A-5]

thats a huge cost considering its a training aircraft, that means 2 hawks = 1 f-16 block 52 ...for the price of 143 hawks 71 f-16s can be bought ....eww

A typical Block-52 costs a total of 80 million including the radar, weapons package, weapon-release
mechanisms, & other add-on electronic equipment. All this stuff needs to be bought seperately in the
US market, I thought you knew this.

 

[Sergi]

thats a huge cost considering its a training aircraft, that means 2 hawks = 1 f-16 block 52 ...for the price of 143 hawks 71 f-16s can be bought ....eww

Did your AF train your guies in F-16s ???

 

[Mani2020]

Did your AF train your guies in F-16s ???

i was talking in context with the higher prices, and purpose was just to compare the prices genius and not to portray what you perceived

 

[Mani2020]

A typical Block-52 costs a total of 80 million including the radar, weapons package, weapon-release
mechanisms, & other add-on electronic equipment. All this stuff needs to be bought seperately in the
US market, I thought you knew this.

i was talking about the flyaway cost man!!!! as i told before the main thing was the costs prospects for a trainer aircraft and not actual 1 on 1 comparison for the goodies accompanied

 

[Mani2020]

Mate u are not taking into consideration that AJT Hawks are the most popular AJTs around the world AFs, as much as 18 countries have procured it over the year, it has literally revolutionized the IAF's training program & now IAF is not at all worried about delays in IJT Sitara project of HAL as after the basic trainer (to be inducted from Switzerland) a trainee can directly switch to the Hawks which can act both as IJTs as well as AJTs. IAF is in love with these birds, after initial order of 66, there was a follow-on order for another 57 (40 for IAF & 17 for IN) & plans are finalized for inducting 20 more for there aerobatic team Surya Kiran, the fact that even the IN preferred it speaks volumes about the AJT. Plus it can be lightly armed & used for small operations at a time of emergency, so it is a truly PAISA WASOOL ac.

Yes, we can replace 143 Hawks with 71 F-16s but 71 F-16s can't act as 143 AJTs.

we have other top notch aircrafts with lesser price

T-38 Talon Advance trainer costs 5.76 million as of 2012 , around 645 units in active service while total 700 units sold

Yak-130 advance trainer/light fighter costs around 15 million dollars

as i already mentioned my post was in context to high prices and not meant to replace these birds with f-16s in actual

The point is there are many advance trainer jets with lesser price tags we know generally european countries come up with higher price tags compared to US and Russians, and when it comes to dependability of the weapon system nothing can beat US ..... Even russian yak-130 looks extremely good not only that this model formed the basis for Alenia Aermacchi's M-346 Master

You have plenty of options out there with cheap price tags and comparable or better performance

 

[Windjammer]

Mate u are not taking into consideration that AJT Hawks are the most popular AJTs around the world AFs, as much as 18 countries have procured it over the year, it has literally revolutionized the IAF's training program & now IAF is not at all worried about delays in IJT Sitara project of HAL as after the basic trainer (to be inducted from Switzerland) a trainee can directly switch to the Hawks which can act both as IJTs as well as AJTs. IAF is in love with these birds, after initial order of 66, there was a follow-on order for another 57 (40 for IAF & 17 for IN) & plans are finalized for inducting 20 more for there aerobatic team Surya Kiran, the fact that even the IN preferred it speaks volumes about the AJT. Plus it can be lightly armed & used for small operations at a time of emergency, so it is a truly PAISA WASOOL ac.

Yes, we can replace 143 Hawks with 71 F-16s but 71 F-16s can't act as 143 AJTs.

All said and done, what is point in glorifying a product which currently is not serving it's purpose.
Being such a popular aircraft as you claim, there should be an abundance of spare parts.
At least the F-16 also being a very popular fighter jet, doesn't suffer from such shortages.(sanctions being a different ball game).

 

[Yogi]

Mate u are not taking into consideration that AJT Hawks are the most popular AJTs around the world AFs, as much as 18 countries have procured it over the year, it has literally revolutionized the IAF's training program & now IAF is not at all worried about delays in IJT Sitara project of HAL as after the basic trainer (to be inducted from Switzerland) a trainee can directly switch to the Hawks which can act both as IJTs as well as AJTs. IAF is in love with these birds, after initial order of 66, there was a follow-on order for another 57 (40 for IAF & 17 for IN) & plans are finalized for inducting 20 more for there aerobatic team Surya Kiran, the fact that even the IN preferred it speaks volumes about the AJT. Plus it can be lightly armed & used for small operations at a time of emergency, so it is a truly PAISA WASOOL ac.

Yes, we can replace 143 Hawks with 71 F-16s but 71 F-16s can't act as 143 AJTs.

I think the problem here is not in aircraft but with the initial 24 of the 66 procured directly from BAE.

BAE might have used some old part to increase its profit in the initial batch or supplied HAL with defective parts during initial manufacture of 44 AJTs....

But what i don't understand is why there is a spare shortage issue in first place, i mean now HAL is manufacturing them in India itself infact there was a offer from BAE to HAL for supply of Hawk AJTs to RSAF(if i rem correctly)...

 

[Skull and Bones]

i was talking about the flyaway cost man!!!! as i told before the main thing was the costs prospects for a trainer aircraft and not actual 1 on 1 comparison for the goodies accompanied

But the $25 million price of Hawks is all inclusive of it's light weapon package and lifetime service. Which will cost more than $100 million for a F-16 Blk 52, considering weapon and jammer package of F-16s is very costly. Fly away cost means nothing.