1971: Rape and its consequences

[Avisheik]

Frankly i am speechless by reading this story. Such wickedness should never ever repeat again. Anyway good work by the doctors

 

[Awesome]

As I said many of these narratives don't hold their ground to true arguments and when many of the pictures turn out to be from Indian books with different tags and different locations than their propaganda counterparts, one has to wonder how much of your version is true at all.

Pakistani army men are professionals to date and the sheer rate at which your claims go shows they nothing but the wanderings of a self-deluded fantasy into making the Pakistani army men into monsters.

Don't even bother about opinion of these 5-10 Bangladeshis on PDF(I doubt even half of them are real).



Not true at all!!

BBC iPlayer - Your World: Boundaries Of Blood: Episode 1

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

I have general faith in the base line goodness of Pakistani men and I believe while it may include a lot of things it does not include raping. Today the situation is 10 times as bad, my mom tells us of times when they would play sports and games with the boys and travel on foot some distance without escorts as there was no danger of being harassed by men of those times.

Aunty Ji must be talking about the 60's in West Pakistan, my dear. She was lucky to be at the right place at the right time.

This is about the dark acts in the times of war in East Pakistan, a dark-skinned, hindu featuring, Bengali speaking community which the Punjabi Army never really embraced.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Sadly, no Pakistani Army officer was ever tried for war crimes in 1971. None. Not one.

P.S. Isn't it just amusing when stuff like this just skips the eyespan of our internet Bangladeshis?

There was an International Crimes Act back in 1973. Although, it never really progressed.

Mujib government announced the first amnesty on May 6th of the same year under The Bangladesh Collaborators (Special Tribunals) Order, and a second one on 30th November of the same year. Exactly under what context were those people granted amnesty is unknown.

We have to understand that the Mujib government at the time were extremely disorganized. They can't even do anything while their own people were looting banks and whatever was left of East Pakistan.

And no, civilians were not included under the law.

After Zia came to power, the whole act was repealed on 1975. Investigations never proceeded from that point onwards. Again, for reasons unknown. Under what context was it repealed? Do we know? I don't even know. No Bangladeshi knows the exact details.

Who or what escaped justice and under what context......I don't think we'll ever know. Some even say the Indians did it. But then, they have no proof.

Another dimension to the matter was that a proper international trail has not progressed due to Cold War complications. Pakistan was an American Cold War ally. The West Pakistani leaders did so to save their behinds. This similarly could be said about Nixon's failure.

As far as crimes against Biharis were concerned, a fair international trail could have taken place against Mukti Bahinis who committed them if evidence permits.

And mark my words, crimes committed by American proxies never went punished. The South Korean troops for example slaughtered Vietnamese civilians during the Vietnam War. And yet, we never hear about the matter today.

There are apparently war criminals of Bangladeshi origin hiding in the UK, and do so through lobbying for the Labour Party (a generally popular party among British-Bangladeshis). That is just one example. Similar processes take place in the Middle Eastern countries and the US as well.

See how complicated the matter you are presenting really is? It's not simply a matter of good guy vs. bad guy.

It's just that we know too little about who's who regarding the matter. It doesn't matter if you are seeing it from the Indian point of view, the Pakistanis point of view, or the Bangladeshi point of view.

We just know too little.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Actually the good doctor could have tried to connect DNA evidence from the child to the raping soldier.

Most of these stories have turned out to be **** n bull drama.

Raping 100 women per day. Even if you put up a legal Free for all advert you will be hard pressed to find men ready to rape a woman, then upon that, highly trained and disciplined officers of Pakistan Army where protection of weak is hard ingrained within the soldier. How do you expect then out of the remaining men that were willing to rape, they managed to keep it up at a rate of 100 women per day.

The numbers are always so exaggerated. But if you go out there looking for these men in uniform that supposedly did these dastardly acts, you never find them. Or at least not in the numbers it has been exaggerated to.

A doctor documenting rape cases till the year 2008 could not even connect ONE soldier to a rape case through DNA evidence?

He says 100 abortions per day. How many rapes per day is a number pakistan army can tell us. And the best u can do is offer a chatacter certificate to ur army that never punished anyone! thats lame.

 

[usernaame]

Actually the good doctor could have tried to connect DNA evidence from the child to the raping soldier.

Most of these stories have turned out to be **** n bull drama.

Raping 100 women per day. Even if you put up a legal Free for all advert you will be hard pressed to find men ready to rape a woman, then upon that, highly trained and disciplined officers of Pakistan Army where protection of weak is hard ingrained within the soldier. How do you expect then out of the remaining men that were willing to rape, they managed to keep it up at a rate of 100 women per day.

The numbers are always so exaggerated. But if you go out there looking for these men in uniform that supposedly did these dastardly acts, you never find them. Or at least not in the numbers it has been exaggerated to.

A doctor documenting rape cases till the year 2008 could not even connect ONE soldier to a rape case through DNA evidence?

Reality is, rape may have occurred in such high numbers but it was ultimately done by all the three sides (including Bangladeshis and Indians). Many of the pictures of the Pak Army's attrocities have been proven as fakes and were in fact Indian soldiers carrying out brutalities on Bangladeshis.

So keep the frailty of provable evidence into account when narrating such **** n bull stories.

Musharraf apology to Bangladesh - Telegraph

rediff.com: Bangladesh welcomes Musharraf's 'apology'

Already done it for the mistakes that were done on our part. Indian and Bangladeshi groups have yet not asked for their own apology.

I have general faith in the base line goodness of Pakistani men and I believe while it may include a lot of things it does not include raping. Today the situation is 10 times as bad, my mom tells us of times when they would play sports and games with the boys and travel on foot some distance without escorts as there was no danger of being harassed by men of those times.

The sheer Shamelessness and pretend remorse shown by Pakistanis and counter allegations(just for the heck of it) gives shivers. Are we readying to allow such type of Human beings in to our country through those Liberalized Visa Policy?

 

[Awesome]

Aunty Ji must be talking about the 60's in West Pakistan, my dear.

This is about the dark acts in the times of war in East Pakistan, a community which the Punjabi Army never really embraced.

As I said, the people of Pakistan generally army that is accused of committing the crimes is said to be the army of West Pakistan - Punjabis and all that - Where did they come from? Mom's hometown falls in that area. My own Khala and Khaloo (both one of Pakistan's brightest minds of the day) were brutally murdered and till date their bodies were not found by some rioters. Stories have it that they were cut up and thrown in the river.

Please don't tell that more Pakistanis were involved than Indian and Bangladeshi culprits, its an argument that you won't win and till date bigger historians than you have not proven.

The sheer Shamelessness and pretend remorse shown by Pakistanis and counter allegations(just for the heck of it) gives shivers. Are we readying to allow such type of Human beings in to our country through those Liberalized Visa Policy?

You still haven't apologized for your crimes against Bangladeshis, we did and moreover not Pakistanis but the Bangladeshi historians first started questioning the official line and brought to light the evidence of how some pictures of Indian forces (which were taken from Indian books of that time showing Indian atrocities) were labeled as Pakistani forces.

Oh and Pakistanis don't give a flying rats behind about your liberal visa policies.

 

[usernaame]

lulz...

There was an International Crimes Act back in 1973. Although, it never really progressed.

Mujib government announced the first amnesty on May 6th of the same year under The Bangladesh Collaborators (Special Tribunals) Order, and a second one on 30th November of the same year. Exactly under what context were those people granted amnesty is unknown.

We have to understand that the Mujib government at the time were extremely disorganized. They can't even do anything while their own people were looting banks and whatever was left of East Pakistan.

And no, civilians were not included under the law.

After Zia came to power, the whole act was repealed on 1975. Investigations never proceeded from that point onwards. Again, for reasons unknown. Under what context was it repealed? Do we know? I don't even know. No Bangladeshi knows the exact details.

Who or what escaped justice and under what context......I don't think we'll ever know. Some even say the Indians did it. But then, they have no proof.

Another dimension to the matter was that a proper international trail has not progressed due to Cold War complications. Pakistan was an American Cold War ally. The West Pakistani leaders did so to save their behinds. This similarly could be said about Nixon's failure.

And mark my words, crimes committed by American proxies never went punished. The South Korean troops for example slaughtered Vietnamese civilians during the Vietnam War. And yet, we never hear about the matter today.

There are apparently war criminals of Bangladeshi origin hiding in the UK, and do so through lobbying for the Labour Party (a generally popular party among British-Bangladeshis). That is just one example. Similar processes take place in the Middle Eastern countries and the US as well.

See how complicated the matter you are presenting it really is? It's not simply a matter of good guy vs. bad guy.

It's just that we know too little about who's who regarding the matter. It doesn't matter if you are seeing it from the Indian point of view, the Pakistanis point of view, or the Bangladeshi point of view.

We just know too little.

It's not the fault of Bangladesh. It was just a new born country. It was supposed to be done by India or UN. Instead India exchanged Prisoners of war in exchange of Temporary Peace. (An assurance of Pakistan to solve all disputes with India through Dialogues bilaterally and not through war) Pakistan, being it very own self did 1984, 1989-90 Kashmir Violence, 1999 Kargil (emboldened by the successes of Afghan Jihad.)

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

As I said, the people of Pakistan generally army that is accused of committing the crimes is said to be the army of West Pakistan - Punjabis and all that - Where did they come from? Mom's hometown falls in that area. My own Khala and Khaloo (both one of Pakistan's brightest minds of the day) were brutally murdered and till date their bodies were not found by some rioters. Stories have it that they were cut up and thrown in the river.

Please don't tell that more Pakistanis were involved than Indian and Bangladeshi culprits, its an argument that you won't win and till date bigger historians than you have not proven.

Wait a minute, I never really talked about quantification, my dear, did I?

It's not about 1 rape or 100 rapes or 1000 rapes.

Point is, when:

((((((((1. You accuse the Indian Army of alleged atrocities in Kashmir.

2. You accuse a Shakil Afridi of conspiring with a foreign agency against Pakistani inetersts.

...and so on...))))))))))

Then you should also set the standards yourself by punishing perpetrators of war crimes on YOUR side of the divide.

When you fail to do that but still continue harping about human rights violation all over the world from Palestine to Kashmir, you only appear more and more hypocritical.

...and nobody takes hypocrites seriously.

 

[Awesome]

He says 100 abortions per day. How many rapes per day is a number pakistan army can tell us. And the best u can do is offer a chatacter certificate to ur army that never punished anyone! thats lame.

You are ignoring the chain of events. The matter of Bangladesh's status was the primary focus for a long time within Pakistan, then martial law, then Soviet War, culminating to sanctions, nuclear arms race and now the war on terror. By the time this matter slowly gained prominence there is hardly any one left to prosecute and today litigation is quite open in Pakistan anyone can come and try cases. In fact its a good time since some cases dating as far back as the 90s where even the COAS of the time has been charged.

If you have a case who is stopping you, come and try them.

 

[usernaame]

As I said, the people of Pakistan generally army that is accused of committing the crimes is said to be the army of West Pakistan - Punjabis and all that - Where did they come from? Mom's hometown falls in that area. My own Khala and Khaloo (both one of Pakistan's brightest minds of the day) were brutally murdered and till date their bodies were not found by some rioters. Stories have it that they were cut up and thrown in the river.

Please don't tell that more Pakistanis were involved than Indian and Bangladeshi culprits, its an argument that you won't win and till date bigger historians than you have not proven.



You still haven't apologized for your crimes against Bangladeshis, we did and moreover not Pakistanis but the Bangladeshi historians first started questioning the official line and brought to light the evidence of how some pictures of Indian forces (which were taken from Indian books of that time showing Indian atrocities) were labeled as Pakistani forces.

Oh and Pakistanis don't give a flying rats behind about your liberal visa policies.

Puke worthy comment. Hardly deserves a response.

 

[Awesome]

Wait a minute, I never really talked about quantification, my dear, did I?

However, when:

((((((((1. You accuse the Indian Army of alleged atrocities in Kashmir.

2. You accuse a Shakil Afridi of conspiring with a foreign agency against Pakistani inetersts.

...and so on...))))))))))

Then you should also set the standards yourself by punishing perpetrators of war crimes on YOUR side of the divide.

When you fail to do that but still continue harping about human rights violation all over the world from Palestine to Kashmir, you only appear more and more hypocritical.

...and nobody takes hypocrites seriously.

Actually Musharraf apology was considered enough by the Bangladeshis at the time, otherwise the doors are open to trial. This issue gained prominence in public awareness only during Musharraf's time. It is still open if someone is there to be punished, go ahead. I won't come in the way.

However I will object and your calling me a hypocrite is the only strawman you can resort to in the lack of a counter argument or to present actual DNA evidence collected by the good doctor for a single rape (which at least puts his entire testimony to be anecdotal and intermixed with his personal feelings) rather than factual.

Puke worthy comment. Hardly deserves a response.

You seem to be too sick to be on this forum, I will do the humane thing and alleviate your calamity.

 

[Avisheik]

As I said, the people of Pakistan generally army that is accused of committing the crimes is said to be the army of West Pakistan - Punjabis and all that - Where did they come from? Mom's hometown falls in that area. My own Khala and Khaloo (both one of Pakistan's brightest minds of the day) were brutally murdered and till date their bodies were not found by some rioters. Stories have it that they were cut up and thrown in the river.

Please don't tell that more Pakistanis were involved than Indian and Bangladeshi culprits, its an argument that you won't win and till date bigger historians than you have not proven.



You still haven't apologized for your crimes against Bangladeshis, we did and moreover not Pakistanis but the Bangladeshi historians first started questioning the official line and brought to light the evidence of how some pictures of Indian forces (which were taken from Indian books of that time showing Indian atrocities) were labeled as Pakistani forces.

Oh and Pakistanis don't give a flying rats behind about your liberal visa policies.

If mukti bahini raped their own women, they would have never won the war.

Indians came in december, yet they raped more than pakistanis, who were in bd for the whole of the war?

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Actually Musharraf apology was considered enough by the Bangladeshis at the time, otherwise the doors are open to trial. This issue gained prominence in public awareness only during Musharraf's time. It is still open if someone is there to be punished, go ahead. I won't come in the way.

However I will object and your calling me a hypocrite is the only strawman you can resort to in the lack of a counter argument or to present actual DNA evidence collected by the good doctor for a single rape (which at least puts his entire testimony to be anecdotal and intermixed with his personal feelings) rather than factual.

What you said is this in a more sugar-coated manner:

"We apologised. Now F-off and live with it."

Asim, you're a grown-up adult.

You and I both know that apologies mean squat in this world. lol

Why not then let Shakil Afridi also apologise and let him enjoy his life?

I'll tell you why:

Because if you believe that he has committed a crime, you'll not be content with his apology alone. You'd want to punish the man.

You're standing on a very sticky wicket here and I hope you realise it.

You can't really convince people with a gaping logical fallacy as big as this when you fail to punish those who commit a crime upon others but you're standing first in the line to punish those whom you perceive to have committed a crime upon you.

Now I'm not calling you a hypocrite but frankly, that kinda behavior is not going to sound any better than hypocrisy either.

 

[Bratva]

Indians. Indians and Indians. They only believe the accounts where Pakistanis are shown as Villians. Here is another side of story for them. Read this book so that your bias minds can comprehend How Bangladeshis were involved in the attrocities and rapings of West Pakistanis and Biharis

Oxford University researcher Sarmila Bose s 2011 book, "Dead Reckoning: Memories of the 1971 Bangladesh War",

What you said is this in a more sugar-coated manner:

"We apologised. Now F-off and live with it."

Asim, you're a grown-up adult.

You and I both know that apologies mean squat in this world. lol

Why not then let Shakil Afridi also apologise and let him enjoy his life?

I'll tell you why:

Because if you believe that he has committed a crime, you'll not be content with his apology alone. You'd want to punish the man.

You're standing on a very sticky wicket here and I hope you realise it.

You can't really convince people with a gaping logical fallacy as big as this when you fail to punish those who commit a crime upon others but you're standing first in the line to punish those whom you perceive to have committed a crime upon you.

Now I'm not calling you a hypocrite but frankly, that kinda behavior is not going to sound any better than hypocrisy either.

It's the matter between Pakistan and Bangladesh, why are you trying so hard in first place?