1962: For anyone who haven't read this...

[CardSharp]

Cardsharp

I am still looking but I did find James Calvin's take on it. He was Lt.Commander of the US Navy and his book is now part of the Marine Corps Command and Staff College reading.

Granted I'm not a great fan of Global Security, but I do know about James Calvin. Rather lengthly reading, but good:

The China-India Border War

The de-classified CIA report..

http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/POLO/polo-09.pdf

Muchas gracias, I'll give them a read.

 

[CardSharp]

Also this talk about sources and how they affect our perception got me thinking. What does everyone here read everyday??

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/70973-post-your-daily-read.html#post1101431 in the member club thread

 

[no_name]

^^^ Part of what I read everyday comes from defence.pk

I've learned alot.

 

[TexasJohn]

Also this talk about sources and how they affect our perception got me thinking. What does everyone here read everyday??

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/70973-post-your-daily-read.html#post1101431 in the member club thread

Good reads. All of them! thanks!

The reason I find the 1962 conflict interesting.

1. The Indians got their a$$ handed to them - but not on all fronts.

2. The Chinese offensive was excellent in some fronts, but was pathetic in some others.They failed miserably in Arunachal. Their front essentially collapsed and they could not hold the ground they took.

3. While the PLAAF was superior to the IAF, it did them no good. They had no forward operating bases, which is why the USAF was able to provide heavy lift capability to the Indian Army and there was nothing the Chinese could do about it.

4. The concept of Air and ground co-ordination simply was not used by the Indians.

5. Political leadership with respect to a war, sucked. Nehru had his head up his butt, and cost the nation dearly. He ignored advice from his own army that jerking China's chain was not a good thing. He should have negotiated with the Chinese when they offered to do so. He would have left behind a legacy of a friendly neighbor rather than a hostile one. This plagues India to this day.

A conflict between India and China today would be nothing more than a Pi$$ing contest. Neither side would make remarkable gains. it would hurt both economically.

It would also plant the US firmly in the Indian camp.

I'm not sure the CCP wants that.

 

[CardSharp]

Good reads. All of them! thanks!

The reason I find the 1962 conflict interesting.

1. The Indians got their a$$ handed to them - but not on all fronts.

2. The Chinese offensive was excellent in some fronts, but was pathetic in some others.They failed miserably in Arunachal. Their front essentially collapsed and they could not hold the ground they took.

3. While the PLAAF was superior to the IAF, it did them no good. They had no forward operating bases, which is why the USAF was able to provide heavy lift capability to the Indian Army and there was nothing the Chinese could do about it.

4. The concept of Air and ground co-ordination simply was not used by the Indians.

5. Political leadership with respect to a war, sucked. Nehru had his head up his butt, and cost the nation dearly. He ignored advice from his own army that jerking China's chain was not a good thing. He should have negotiated with the Chinese when they offered to do so. He would have left behind a legacy of a friendly neighbor rather than a hostile one. This plagues India to this day.

A conflict between India and China today would be nothing more than a Pi$$ing contest. Neither side would make remarkable gains. it would hurt both economically.

It would also plant the US firmly in the Indian camp.

I'm not sure the CCP wants that.

Still reading through what you gave me. Impression so far? Nehru was a complete f'ing moron.

 

[siegecrossbow]

A conflict between India and China today would be nothing more than a Pi$$ing contest. Neither side would make remarkable gains. it would hurt both economically.

Much like the one that we have on this forum .

On a serious note, what do you think (let us keep the PURELY HYPOTHETICAL) another Sino-Indian military conflict would look like? Where would the point of contention be (in Tibet again)? Will air support be deployed now that China has air bases near the Sino-Indian borders? How will U.S.-Pakistani and Indo-Russian relations be affected if the U.S. is in Indian camp?

 

[TexasJohn]

Still reading through what you gave me. Impression so far? Nehru was a complete f'ing moron.

Agreed......

 

[TexasJohn]

Much like the one that we have on this forum .

On a serious note, what do you think (let us keep the PURELY HYPOTHETICAL) another Sino-Indian military conflict would look like? Where would the point of contention be (in Tibet again)? Will air support be deployed now that China has air bases near the Sino-Indian borders? How will U.S.-Pakistani and Indo-Russian relations be affected if the U.S. is in Indian camp?

I think Tibet is a closed issue. India accepts it. Dalai Lama is a "needling card". Just like China's claim to "southern Tibet".

China is demonstrating it's desire to defend Tibet by bulding up roads, rail etc. ( all the things that can be bombed by an enemy Air Force)

India is raising Mountain Divisions, buying howitzers etc.

It fulfills both Govts' political needs, and lets the military on both sides get toys.

India does not have to do anything with Tibet. It is already a tinderbox.

China knows a war with India would serve no purpose. But the cool "macho" talk brings support at home. Oh well.....

 

[CardSharp]

I think Tibet is a closed issue. India accepts it. Dalai Lama is a "needling card". Just like China's claim to "southern Tibet".

China is demonstrating it's desire to defend Tibet by bulding up roads, rail etc. ( all the things that can be bombed by an enemy Air Force)

India is raising Mountain Divisions, buying howitzers etc.

It fulfills both Govts' political needs, and lets the military on both sides get toys.

India does not have to do anything with Tibet. It is already a tinderbox.

China knows a war with India would serve no purpose. But the cool "macho" talk brings support at home. Oh well.....

I think the issue is much more on the radar in India than in China and also my feeling is that stuff like roads and rail can be easily a part of the modernization and opening up of Tibet for internal control rather than some insidious plot to militarize the border.

Totally agree on the limited scale of war though. Anyone on the wrong side of the mountain is at an instant disadvantage. You'd think with the best fence on planet earth, that India and China would be good neighbours.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

A conflict between India and China today would be nothing more than a Pi$$ing contest. Neither side would make remarkable gains. it would hurt both economically.

I think that's a good summary of the current situation.

It is best for everyone to continue on the path of Economic development, for mutual gain.

I think Tibet is a closed issue. India accepts it. Dalai Lama is a "needling card". Just like China's claim to "southern Tibet".

China knows a war with India would serve no purpose. But the cool "macho" talk brings support at home. Oh well.....

Another good post. It's true that all governments appeal to patriotism/nationalism to "some extent", for some easy gains in political capital.

I think it's quite dangerous for the CPC to appeal to nationalism though, because that can end up being very difficult to control, especially in the current structure of governance.

 

[ps80]

Still reading through what you gave me. Impression so far? Nehru was a complete f'ing moron.

Kindly refrain from using foul language, especially for dead people. Try to keep your debate/discussion decent.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Also this talk about sources and how they affect our perception got me thinking. What does everyone here read everyday??

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/70973-post-your-daily-read.html#post1101431 in the member club thread

I visit the Tiexue (blood and iron in Chinese) military forum once a week. The forum was purported to be a lot more neutral and technical when it first started but is now populated by radical Fengqing (yes the kill/**** xxx types) and their detractors. There are, however, a LOT of very knowledgeable and level headed posters there as well as former PLA soldiers (they sound very different from the average immature poster and often backs up their credentials if it isn't classified). It gives good insight to the latest Chinese tech development (almost all of the "leaked" pictures of J-10Bs and J-11Bs showed up on Tiexue at some point before they show up here) as well as some great historical info on the PLA.

For my daily defence news I visit the Pakistan Defence Forum (no surprise there) as well as the Sinodefence Forum. Sinodefence, despite the fact that it is based in England, is a pro-Chinese website with many, many knowledgeable posters. The site has zero tolerance for trolling (any country/ethnic bashing and you are OUT) so the atmosphere there is a bit more soothing than that of most military forums. You have conservative Americans (one of them served aboard a U.S. Carrier in the past and is quite nice) and Chinese Fengqing coexisting pretty well. Check it out if you are interested.

 

[no_name]

I like visiting sinodefense forum too.

also go to tiexue

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Sinodefence, despite the fact that it is based in England, is a pro-Chinese website with many, many knowledgeable posters. The site has zero tolerance for trolling (any country/ethnic bashing and you are OUT) so the atmosphere there is a bit more soothing than that of most military forums. You have conservative Americans (one of them served aboard a U.S. Carrier in the past and is quite nice) and Chinese Fengqing coexisting pretty well. Check it out if you are interested.

Wow that sounds really good...

 

[oceanx]

I like visiting sinodefense forum too.

also go to tiexue

I thought you have a "real job" ... how do you get the time on your hands? Some people sure can juggle and walk at the same time!

Like Siegecrossbow, I stick to PDF as it is pretty much my geopolitical/military news portal nowadays.