1962 A Missed Opportunity...

[Nemesis]

Cheetah, I must add this is written by a prof at Nehru university, Delhi. It seems full of assumptions on the behvior and thinking of Chinese people which are off the mark. Nevertheless it offers a window into the thinking of Indians.

The Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi is famous for its leftist orientation. I highly doubt you would get a more neutral source on the issue.

 

[Nemesis]

Cheetah, I must add this is written by a prof at Nehru university, Delhi. It seems full of assumptions on the behvior and thinking of Chinese people which are off the mark. Nevertheless it offers a window into the thinking of Indians.

The Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi is famous for its leftist orientation. I highly doubt you would get a more neutral source on the issue.

 

[Omar1984]

It was definately a missed oppurtunity, but we Pakistanis must learn from our mistakes.

India had stolen our water and refused to compensate, Pakistan should cooperate with China and keep a very very very close relationship with China.

The next war between India and Pakistan will be a war over water. Pakistan needs China more than China needs Pakistan, also China has territorial disputes with India and many Chinese are determined to get back those territories.

Pakistan MUST work with China.

 

[A1Kaid]

Also let me make one very hard-hitting crucial point to why Pakistan may have not interfered.

In 1962 there was no Sino-Pakistani alliance or friendship. Both Pakistan and China were strangers to one another, neither countries understood one another, or knew where the other countries loyalties lie, there was no military coordination or really diplomatic connection between China and Pakistan.

Our friendship subsequently began in 1963, when Pakistan ceded Aksai Chin, the northern most uninhabited part of Kashmir. In return China happily accepted Pakistan's claim to the world famous K-2 Mountain. The began our alliance.


It is highly likely if a Sino-Pakistani alliance had existed prior to the 1962 Sino-Indian war, Pakistan would have also taken some sort of military action to undermine India.

Adding on to my previous points and ideas.

Today the situation is different and the relationship and defense ties between Pakistan and China are strong, all-weather, and have stood the test of time through some of the most difficult challenges.

No matter how much the world has changed, or no matter how much the Geo-Political problems and fall outs and WoT the Sino-Pakistani defense alliance has withstood all these hurdles and has improved greatly.


This component is a game-changer.

In the next Sino-Indian war which is likely to happen, mark my words. There is a reason why there arena has heated up recently, both China and India have interests in that region of Arunachal Pradesh. Both are headed on a path to collision, and may there be no doubt of who shall win.


Previously, Qsaark had mentioned the US-UK had previously threatened Pakistan to prevent any Pakistani attack on India during the Sino-Indian war. Today the situation is different, the US is considered an ally on the WoT, the US needs Pakistan's cooperation in order to achieve it's objectives in the WoT. UK poses no threat, and any military threat from the US is quite extreme and unlikely.

Also not to mention look how far China has come. Today this country's power has immensely grown this Dragon will awake and it will show the large Elephant it's new found power.



Pakistani and Chinese Generals buckle up and get ready...

 

[Khalids]

Please read Hamid Mir's column in today's Jang. The last paragraph of this column relates to 1962 indo-china war.

Jang Group Online

 

[Contrarian]

In 1965 the Indians caught us of guard by invading across the International Border because they were smarting from the Rann of Kutch and 1962 affairs.

Yeah, a little wrong there mate. India crossed the IB in response to Pakistan crossing the border in J&K. Its quite unlike what you have been told about 'India catching Pakistan by surprise' and Pakistan 'defending'. Pakistan was the instigator of the whole '65 war.

 

[qsaark]

Yeah, a little wrong there mate. India crossed the IB in response to Pakistan crossing the border in J&K. Its quite unlike what you have been told about 'India catching Pakistan by surprise' and Pakistan 'defending'. Pakistan was the instigator of the whole '65 war.

Pakistan was the instigator no doubt, but Pakistan crossed the LOC which is not an international border, while the Indians crossed the international border. Still it is not correct to say that Indians caught Pakistanis off guarded. There were skirmishes in the summer of 1965 in Rann of Kutch and the Indian Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shastri referred to Pakistan's infiltration in IAK had already said while addressing the nation on 13th August 1965, "Force will be met with force." In the light of this clear warning, Pakistan should have prepared itself for a possible retaliation anywhere along the LOC or IB. It was only the overconfidence (which unfortunately we still suffer with) of Pakistan that they did not prepare accordingly.

 

[L'Indien]

Today the situation is different and the relationship and defense ties between Pakistan and China are strong, all-weather, and have stood the test of time through some of the most difficult challenges.

All weather friends?? you must be joking....If you have a slightest of knowledge in history, then you would know that nations follow policies dictated most importantly by self interest. Alliances are formed only to be broken when 'self interest' demands, unlikely alliances are struck when 'self interest' demands, friendship pacts and promises are broken when 'self interest' demands, etc...
In short, sorry to burst your happy bubble, there are no permanent friends or enemies, that includes pakistan and China....
Besides, what happened during the Kargil conflict??....China took a neutral position.....got the message...?

No matter how much the world has changed, or no matter how much the Geo-Political problems and fall outs and WoT the Sino-Pakistani defense alliance has withstood all these hurdles and has improved greatly.

the bubble has been burst already...please refer to the above...

This component is a game-changer.

More of the same....please refer above

In the next Sino-Indian war which is likely to happen, mark my words. There is a reason why there arena has heated up recently, both China and India have interests in that region of Arunachal Pradesh. Both are headed on a path to collision, and may there be no doubt of who shall win.

A limited border conflict something on the lines of Kargil 1999 is more likely than a full scale war. A full scale war would most likely end up in a MAD (mutually assured destruction) scenario. Neither of the two countries can afford that (even a full scale conventional war would push back the industrial infrastructure of the two countries by hlf a century...). Besides who can say that a full scale war between two of the biggest countries in the world would not turn into something bigger .... a third world war perhaps? I know pakistan would love to see a sino-Indian war to take advantage and open a second front against India. But then Pakistan, besides China, is the only major headache for India, China on the other hand has its fingers in too many pies, apart from India...... Tibet, Taiwan, Japan, North Korea, Russia.....who is to guarantee that one of these would not take advantage of the situation against china....?? I have not even talked about the role of the USA....who know which way it will swing??
Conclusion: a full scale war is highly unlikely, if at all that happens, sit it out (which is improbable) or be prepared to be destroyed in the crossfire (more likely)!

Previously, Qsaark had mentioned the US-UK had previously threatened Pakistan to prevent any Pakistani attack on India during the Sino-Indian war. Today the situation is different, the US is considered an ally on the WoT, the US needs Pakistan's cooperation in order to achieve it's objectives in the WoT. UK poses no threat, and any military threat from the US is quite extreme and unlikely.

haha...its good to see that at least one Pakistani on this forum trusts US with all his heart and more importantly is confident of what role US will play in a major war between India and China.....day dreaming at its best....jog on mate!

Also not to mention look how far China has come. Today this country's power has immensely grown this Dragon will awake and it will show the large Elephant it's new found power.

its funny to see how SOME Pakistani war mongers get their kicks from dreaming that somebody else (read: China) will do their dirty job (i.e. wage and win a war against India), something that Pakistan has failed miserably every time it tried.
On a side note, Dragon and Elephant are busy going from strength to strength and the world acknowledges that. Where are you headed to???

Pakistani and Chinese Generals buckle up and get ready...

Nothing much to say on this, but cant resist a piece of friendly advice: set your own house in order before dreaming of a war against India!!

 

[qsaark]

L'Indien,

This is your 13th post only yet you are overly sarcastic while replying. I'll suggest you to make your point without being sarcastic and insulting towards others especially senior members. AlKaid has expressed his opinion, and his opinion, like others, is open for debate. But only open for debate not open for sarcastic or insulting comments. This kind of attitude always results in the derailing of the thread and eventually a closure.

Hopefully next time you'll behave more like a gentle man.

Regards,
QSAARK

 

[L'Indien]

L'Indien,

This is your 13th post only yet you are overly sarcastic while replying. I'll suggest you to make your point without being sarcastic and insulting towards others especially senior members. AlKaid has expressed his opinion, and his opinion, like others, is open for debate. But only open for debate not open for sarcastic or insulting comments. This kind of attitude always results in the derailing of the thread and eventually a closure.

Hopefully next time you'll behave more like a gentle man.

Regards,
QSAARK

Ok, agreed that there was a bit of sarcasm in my post, but there was NOTHING that was close to insulting.

anyways I do agree that sarcasm is detrimental to a healthy discussion and should be avoided, will keep that in mind.

Though, do not agree that I should avoid sarcasm because I have only 13 posts. IMHO, this "no sarcasm" rule applies to everybody even if he/she has more than a 1000 posts....

lets get back to the topic now....

 

[third eye]

I would agree with the pressure from US but as far as the Preparedness of the milletery is concern I think the milletery was prepared .
However Gebralter was executed in assurance with the West which led to his isolation and later his resignation .
The West perticularly US and Great Britan were Ferrociously involved in the Reagion. They Nurtured their school of thought in Pakistan and sabotaged almost anyone who even showed little hinderence .
But Despite all that the Chinese engaged themselves in Pakistan challanging the US. They had the long term policy in which they succeeded 100%. Its the reason of that outstanding Diplomatic Feat by the Chinese due to which Both China and Pakistan now Enjoy Strategik ties.
The US(Being Defeated milliterilly) is now in the phase of Recovery here. They Tried Almost every thing Pressure,Sanctions,IAEA, Millitery Might, Economic AID, Milletery AID, UN(Banning terrorist org), Espionage,Destablization and rest of all their Dirty Tricks but yet they faced defeat. However they still have some strong cards to play. But Despite All that the ties between China and Pakistan continue to become stronger.
The Reason why US failed was the Lust to bring (India) in their Camp which was recognized by the Establishment in Pakistan Long time ago .After All that the US finally decided its position when they made the Strategik Nuclear Deal with India and launched a highly mallicious campaighn against OUR nuclear Programe. and the Fact which strongly backs it is the Silence of US over the kidnapping and killing of the Indian Nuclear Scinetist.

I don't think PA was prepared to attack india in '62. Both armies were in about the same state since 47.

Its only the Indian defeat in 62 which gave Ayub an 'option'.

If the PA was prepared as mentioned then indeed it was a lost opportunity as there have been so many lost opportunities in our region on numerous issues.

 

[Su 30mki]

When in 1947 Pak Army Reached till outskirts of Srinagar and was pushed back many KMs .... IN 1962 this goona repeated again

 

[Always Neutral]

People think going to war is like going Tescos for shopping. War takes months of preperation. Another reason was may be China kept its war plans secret from Pakistan Army as they did not trust them well enough. I doubt India would have survived well planned attacks in three fronts. Pakistan, East Pakistan and China so yes 1962 maybe a missed opportunity if China had played ball but they did not. Guess most Indians feel 1971 was a missed opportunity for them to. After all more than 50000 POW's were in their custody.

Regards

 

[qsaark]

People think going to war is like going Tescos for shopping. War takes months of preperation. Another reason was may be China kept its war plans secret from Pakistan Army as they did not trust them well enough. I doubt India would have survived well planned attacks in three fronts. Pakistan, East Pakistan and China so yes 1962 maybe a missed opportunity if China had played ball but they did not. Guess most Indians feel 1971 was a missed opportunity for them to. After all more than 50000 POW's were in their custody.

Regards

Of course Chinese did not trust Pakistan in 1962 (they still are cautious because of the unpredictable nature of Pakistani leaders and their never ending love affair with the USA). Pakistan was a member of anti-communist pacts SEATO and CENTO. In addition to that Ayub Khan and all his cabinet was very close to the USA and USA/UK were friends of the India. Ayub’s relations started straining with the Americans only during and after the 1965 war. Chinese halted their offense for a reason, and the reason was Chinese probably feared that the USA may directly interfere in the conflict and could send its air force to help India as per the request of the Indian Premier.

 

[sadiqams]

In 1962 Pakistans armed forces were not strong enough to attack India although I have read somewhere that china invited Pakistan to join the war but not sure if this is fact. Ayub Khan was busy beefing up his regime. In the circumstances all Pakistan had to do was to take a Akhnur and block the road to srinagar then try to negotiate with the Indians but I dont think the Indians would have taken it lying down they would have fought back perhaps like attack Lahore.