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1962 A Missed Opportunity...

The "Official History of the 1965 War", drafted by the Ministry of Defence of India in 1992, was a long suppressed document that revealed other miscalculations. According to the document, on September 22 when the Security Council was pressing for a ceasefire, the Indian Prime Minister asked commanding Gen. Chaudhuri if India could possibly win the war, were he to delay accepting the ceasefire. The general replied that most of India's frontline ammunition had been used up and the Indian Army had suffered considerable tank losses. It was determined later that only 14% of India's frontline ammunition had been fired and India held twice the number of tanks as Pakistan. By this time, the Pakistani Army had used close to 80% of its ammunition.

Indo-Pakistani War of 1965 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Vinod you seem to be missing the POINT like your other fellow Indian members!

You post information about the 1965 War, when I am discussing the 1962 Sino-Indian War. The premise of my argument includes that if Pakistan had attacked India in the Sino-Indian War in 1962 then the 1965 in all likelihood would not have happened!

So providing information of the war between Pakistan and India 3 years later/after (1962) does not help....Please read the first post in this thread because it appears you failed to do so...

Best Regards, A1Kaid
 
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Vinod you seem to be missing the POINT like your other fellow Indian members!

You post information about the 1965 War, when I am discussing the 1962 Sino-Indian War. The premise of my argument includes that if Pakistan had attacked India in the Sino-Indian War in 1962 then the 1965 in all likelihood would not have happened!

So providing information of the war between Pakistan and India 3 years later/after (1962) does not help....Please read the first post in this thread because it appears you failed to do so...

Best Regards, A1Kaid

I think you missed my earlier post on this.

I think Pakistan was not ready for war in 1962. Heck, both our countries were not really ready even in 1965 when supposedly Pakistan should have expected it in the aftermath of "Gibralter" and India should have prepared better after 1962.

Both sides made several mistakes and were short on the ammo. As my post proves Pakistan almost depleted everything in a short time.

So to assume that Pakistan could have started a war suddenly when China attacked India could be a wrong way of looking at it. It takes time to prepare for a war. There are accounts that say that India prepared for a year and chose the time and place of it's choosing for the 1971 war to achieve the results.

There is no account that China shared the war plans with Pakistan giving you a chance to prepare.

I think both militaries have come a long way since those days and hopefully some of those mistakes will not be repeated.
 
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Allow me to CORRECT some notions here.

Pakistan WANTED To attack India right near the end of the Sino Indian war, but they COULD NOT. Pakistan needed time to gather and prepare the resources for the war, and as much as they wanted to make it sooner, they could not. Its not as if they did not try.
 
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Allow me to CORRECT some notions here.

Pakistan WANTED To attack India right near the end of the Sino Indian war, but they COULD NOT. Pakistan needed time to gather and prepare the resources for the war, and as much as they wanted to make it sooner, they could not. Its not as if they did not try.
What was the reason for the delay..
 
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Allow me to CORRECT some notions here.

Pakistan WANTED To attack India right near the end of the Sino Indian war, but they COULD NOT. Pakistan needed time to gather and prepare the resources for the war, and as much as they wanted to make it sooner, they could not. Its not as if they did not try.

Could you please provide us some evidence or sources to support your claim, that Pakistan was inclined to attack India towards the end of the Sino-Indian War in 1962...I am interested.

Also I am sure Pakistan during 1962 could have done surgical strikes on IAF airbases, with little military response from India. Then later after Pakistan gathered it's supplies ready could make a major operation to capture the whole of Kashmir...
 
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Could you please provide us some evidence or sources to support your claim, that Pakistan was inclined to attack India towards the end of the Sino-Indian War in 1962...I am interested.

Also I am sure Pakistan during 1962 could have done surgical strikes on IAF airbases, with little military response from India. Then later after Pakistan gathered it's supplies ready could make a major operation to capture the whole of Kashmir...

Cant find the link, read about it a long time back.

You can analyze what Pakistan could have done or could not have done in 62, the point is they didnt. They were preparing though, and the Rann of Kutch skirmish boldened Pakistan. Not to mention they figured that Kashmir would revolt with a little prodding and decided to goto war.
 
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Allow me to CORRECT some notions here.

Pakistan WANTED To attack India right near the end of the Sino Indian war, but they COULD NOT. Pakistan needed time to gather and prepare the resources for the war, and as much as they wanted to make it sooner, they could not. Its not as if they did not try.

Probably Mr malaymishra was in Pakistan Army's MO Directorate at that time, perhaps.
No hard feelings just a thought.
 
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Could you please provide us some evidence or sources to support your claim, that Pakistan was inclined to attack India towards the end of the Sino-Indian War in 1962...I am interested.

Also I am sure Pakistan during 1962 could have done surgical strikes on IAF airbases, with little military response from India. Then later after Pakistan gathered it's supplies ready could make a major operation to capture the whole of Kashmir...

Probably not. IAF was not at all used in the 1962 war and would have been fully available for responding to the attack.
 
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Probably not. IAF was not at all used in the 1962 war and would have been fully available for responding to the attack.

Interesting point, I would argue though PAF would go head to head with IAF and Pakistani ground troops could have engaged in a major operation to capture Indian occupied Kashmir and attack Indian troop position...

This would put a severe and very painful strain on the Indian military, as you know it would be very difficult for India especially in 1962 to fight a War on two fronts against two very hostile enemies Pakistan and China simultaneously.
 
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Probably not. IAF was not at all used in the 1962 war and would have been fully available for responding to the attack.

It is highly unlikely that the IAF would have performed any better in 1962 than in 1965, where their performance was pretty mediocre especially in contrast to the PAF. In 1962 they probably would've been worse, especially if the PLA/AF was involved. The IAF was not deployed because of an underestimation of enemy intents and capabilities. In 1965 the Indians caught us of guard by invading across the International Border because they were smarting from the Rann of Kutch and 1962 affairs. Indian war plans in 1962 might have been very different, and Pakistan much more prepared given the directness of our objectives and India lacking all the equipment received after the 1962 defeat.
 
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Probably not. IAF was not at all used in the 1962 war and would have been fully available for responding to the attack.

It is highly unlikely that the IAF would have performed any better in 1962 than in 1965, where their performance was pretty mediocre especially in contrast to the PAF. In 1962 they probably would've been worse, especially if the PLA/AF was involved. The IAF was not deployed because of an underestimation of enemy intents and capabilities. In 1965 the Indians caught us of guard by invading across the International Border because they were smarting from the Rann of Kutch and 1962 affairs. Indian war plans in 1962 might have been very different, and Pakistan much more prepared given the directness of our objectives and India lacking all the equipment received after the 1962 defeat.

Interesting point, I would argue though PAF would go head to head with IAF and Pakistani ground troops could have engaged in a major operation to capture Indian occupied Kashmir and attack Indian troop position...

This would put a severe and very painful strain on the Indian military, as you know it would be very difficult for India especially in 1962 to fight a War on two fronts against two very hostile enemies Pakistan and China simultaneously.

Yes, we can make conjectures. As I said, I don't believe the Pakistan military was ready for a war yet. There has been no alternate explanations to this most obvious logic that have been forthcoming from you guys.

It is highly unlikely that the IAF would have performed any better in 1962 than in 1965, where their performance was pretty mediocre especially in contrast to the PAF. In 1962 they probably would've been worse, especially if the PLA/AF was involved.

This is one of the big myths that you have. Same as the myth of India being the aggressor in 1965. India only retaliated Pakistan's aggression in Kashmir.

I know that Pakistan had the better planes in 1965. When they were inducted, I am not sure. If not in 1962 then the argument falls flat on it's face.

Also there has to be a reason why the smaller, slower, India made Gnats were called "Sabre killers" after the war. It was not one sided as you guys have been led to believe. The same belief that became self perpetuating and even institutionalized even in the PAF and cost Pakistan dear in 1971!

But I see that people are still putting spin on what happened in 1971 and especially the air war of 1971! So I guess, people don't want the small inconvenience of mere facts to distract them from what they would dearly like to believe.

The IAF was not deployed because of an underestimation of enemy intents and capabilities.

Not true. It seems unbelievable but it was done not to escalate the situation!

In 1965 the Indians caught us of guard by invading across the International Border because they were smarting from the Rann of Kutch and 1962 affairs.

I thought India crossed the border in response to Operation Gibralter.

Mr. Ayub had got too confident after the events of Rann of Kutch and Bhutto was spoiling for a war too. You got what you wanted.

If Pakistan was caught "off guard" after initiating Gibralter, it shows incompetence of the highest order!

I know that some in Pakistan were also caught "off guard" at the intensity of Indian response after doing Kargil! Difficult to believe but they seem to want to decide not only their actions and also the extent of Indian reactions to their provocations!

When things don't go as per the script, they are caught "off guard" and complain bitterly!
 
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:rofl::rofl: You guys never fail to crack me up. Remember Operation Gibraltar? Kargil? ISI-sponsored terrorists? Stabbing in the back is all you guys ever do.

As for the rest, Pakistan could not have attacked India along with China, simply because the Sino-Pak alliance had not been formed yet. Remember, this was when Nehru was still singing 'Hindi-Chini bhai bhai'. 1965 was actually when this was more likely.

Afghanistan is where crack comes from i take it this is how Raw is paying for its Terrorist operations in pakistan u supply them weapons and training they give u crack which Raw sell in india and you are the end result.
chinese premier then had called Ayub to go ahead and take it but he couldnt move as he was getting his nails done also known as agreeing to masters wishes.

Nehru was still singing 'Hindi-Chini bhai

yet he also tried to stab china in the back and paid heavily for his mistake
 
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Afghanistan is where crack comes from i take it this is how Raw is paying for its Terrorist operations in pakistan u supply them weapons and training they give u crack which Raw sell in india and you are the end result.
chinese premier then had called Ayub to go ahead and take it but he couldnt move as he was getting his nails done also known as agreeing to masters wishes.



yet he also tried to stab china in the back and paid heavily for his mistake

Please, why are you replying to a banned troll? There is no need for this. Please leave out "crack" from the debate. Edit: Also Afghanistan is not where crack comes from, hashish/opium come from Afghanistan, not "crack" that comes from countries like Colombia, Bolivia and Brazil.../Edit


Nonetheless thank you for your input.

"chinese premier then had called Ayub to go ahead and take it but he couldnt move as he was getting his nails done also known as agreeing to masters wishes."-Cheetah

Please provide a source to confirm or support your assertion, that would be helpful.
 
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