1904 China map admits Paracel, Spratly not Chinese territory

[kankan326]

Firstly, there is no evidence to prove the Chinese were who first discovered the two archipelagoes of Hoang Sa and Truong Sa, and also in the Scarborough Shoal.

Secondly, China had never established any action to assert "its sovereignty" on the two archipelagos before the Vietnamese controlled over them. In fact the Vietnamese have controlled peacefully over the two archipelagos for hundreds of years ago, without any fight over the archipelagos with others, until 1939 has been invaded by Japan.

Thirdly, RoC received the task of disarming the Japanese troops in Vietnam including Paracels and Spratlys, that does not mean that the territory of Vietnam would be assigned to China. Remember that in 1939 Japan had invaded two archipelagos of Paracels and Spratlys from Vietnam [the time Vietnam was a French colony], not from China.
Moreover, the RoC was one of the drafter of Cairo statement, which lists of islands that Japan must return to China, but did not mention Paracels and Spratlys of Vietnam's [of course].

In ancient time, SCS was a busy water route, which was called Maritime Silk Road. And there were several fisheries for Chinese fishermen. The odds that those islands were not found by ancient Chinese is zero. Actually, there were evidences once. On some of the islands, there were temples and tombs built by Chinese. But right after these islands were stolen, the evidences were wiped away by thief gov. And their ppl were told nothing was there. Our ancient books also mentioned these islands many times.

People lived in ancient time didn't have the concept of asserting sovereignty. I don't know to whom you claimed your sovereignty and how you maintained your sovereignty. Sounds funny that your ancestors could do the acts only modern ppl could do. And how your ancient gov managed these islands that are so far away from your mainland? There is word you guys always mentioned: brain-washed. By the way, there was no country called Vietnam in 1939. So Japan couldn't stole something from air. In 1939, China was fighting against Japan's invasion. France and Japan had not declared war to each other yet. For Japanese, there is only one explanation: They took the islands from China, not from France.

Cairo statement didn't mention Hainan island either. It always belongs to China. So we did't need Japanese to "return" us.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Very accurately saying of Đảo Bạch Long Vĩ, some small islands which near the coast of Vietnam were still shown on the map of Vietnam in 1834.

We can see, the two archipelagos Paracels and Spratlys have been noted in chinese characters mean "Hoang Sa" and "Van Ly Truong Sa", and folded around by a dotted line marks the two archipelagos, and was located close to Vietnam. Perhaps that's not the author drew a wrong scale, that is because the author deliberately drew them near the coast of Vietnam to note that the two archipelagos of Paracels and Spratlys are under the sovereignty of Vietnam.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

In ancient time, SCS was a busy water route, which was called Maritime Silk Road. And there were several fisheries for Chinese fishermen. The odds that those islands were not found by ancient Chinese is zero. Actually, there were evidences once. On some of the islands, there were temples and tombs built by Chinese. But right after these islands were stolen, the evidences were wiped away by thief gov. And their ppl were told nothing was there. Our ancient books also mentioned these islands many times.

People lived in ancient time didn't have the concept of asserting sovereignty. I don't know to whom you claimed your sovereignty and how you maintained your sovereignty. Sounds funny that your ancestors could do the acts only modern ppl could do. And how your ancient gov managed these islands that are so far away from your mainland? There is word you guys always mentioned: brain-washed. By the way, there was no country called Vietnam in 1939. So Japan couldn't stole something from air. In 1939, China was fighting against Japan's invasion. France and Japan had not declared war to each other yet. For Japanese, there is only one explanation: They took the islands from China, not from France.

Cairo statement didn't mention Hainan island either. It always belongs to China. So we did't need Japanese to "return" us.

Obviously you are deliberately distorting the truth.
Previously China had claims that the islands from the "ancient" were owned by China, now we prove the Chinese did not control any the islands from "ancient", then you turn to deny that does not exist a Vietnam country and Japan did not invade the islands from the Vietnam!?

You think you can deny things just happen early 20th century?

If as you say, the islands listed in the Cairo statement to force Japan to give back to China because previously they were not clear belong to China?

 

[krusswager01]

In ancient time, SCS was a busy water route, which was called Maritime Silk Road. And there were several fisheries for Chinese fishermen. The odds that those islands were not found by ancient Chinese is zero. Actually, there were evidences once. On some of the islands, there were temples and tombs built by Chinese. But right after these islands were stolen, the evidences were wiped away by thief gov. And their ppl were told nothing was there. Our ancient books also mentioned these islands many times.

People lived in ancient time didn't have the concept of asserting sovereignty. I don't know to whom you claimed your sovereignty and how you maintained your sovereignty. Sounds funny that your ancestors could do the acts only modern ppl could do. And how your ancient gov managed these islands that are so far away from your mainland? There is word you guys always mentioned: brain-washed. By the way, there was no country called Vietnam in 1939. So Japan couldn't stole something from air. In 1939, China was fighting against Japan's invasion. France and Japan had not declared war to each other yet. For Japanese, there is only one explanation: They took the islands from China, not from France.

Cairo statement didn't mention Hainan island either. It always belongs to China. So we did't need Japanese to "return" us.

You're underestimating our ancestors. Ours are not that stupid as yours man. From the ancient time our ancestors knew how to protect and expand our land And even your ancestors built some houses or temples or whatever doesn't mean it belong to china because ancient Vietnamese Empires claimed the sovereignty of those island first (please learn this point and stop saying that some monkeys just live in the jungle with no care of their land, didn't protect the sovereignty and now saying that it belongs to their descendants !!!)

 

[kankan326]

Obviously you are deliberately distorting the truth.
Previously China had claims that the islands from the "ancient" were owned by China, now we prove the Chinese did not control any the islands from "ancient", then you turn to deny that does not exist a Vietnam country and Japan did not invade the islands from the Vietnam!?

You think you can deny things just happen early 20th century?

If as you say, the islands listed in the Cairo statement to force Japan to give back to China because previously they were not clear belong to China?

All I said are the truth. Ancient Chinese never claimed sovereignty to the islands. They just take it for granted that they own the water field. People at that time just didn't do it. Just like ancient people didn't play computer games. Your story is too perfect to be true.

I agree that Taiwan was officially given up by China in 1895. It belonged to Japan in 1939. But we officially took it back in 1945.

 

[Snomannen]

Who say that the loser loose nothing? He will loose his fame, his reputation, his honour

I declare that China belongs to Mongolia, with the same reason. Anyone would like to oppose my declaration?

Hmm... I don't agree with you.
If Pakistani named their country "Mughal", could they declare that India belongs to Pakistan?

Look at the monkeys jumping up and down. Fact is, Vietnam was China's vassal state for 1000 years.

YUNO stop posting.

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

All I said are the truth. Ancient Chinese never claimed sovereignty to the islands.

Yeah, so finally there is a Chinese who is brave enough to tell the truth, congratulation

They just take it for granted that they own the water field.

I can say that Vietnamese owned Hainan in 5000 years ago. We just take it for granted, therefore we don't need any evidence
Just bring that argument to the international court and then people will throw shoes to your face

People at that time just didn't do it. Just like ancient people didn't play computer games. Your story is too perfect to be true.

So why at that time we did it, French, British, Portuguese, Spanish ... did it? Oh, maybe because we are much more advanced than you, while you were stick with your "ancient", we, along side with French, British, Portuguese, Spanish..., were playing computer games

Hmm... I don't agree with you.
If Pakistani named their country "Mughal", could they declare that India belongs to Pakistan?

I don't get it

 

[Snomannen]

India was the defender of the South Asia, and we were the defender of the South East Asia BTW where is China? I can't find them there

Of course you can, otherwise how could you find India and Vietnam?
In fact, there were not such countries named "India", "China" and "Vietnam",
but Delhi Sultanate (anciet Indian nation), Yuan Dynasty (ancient Chinese nation) and Dai Viet (anciet Vietnamese nation).

I know you may not agree with me, but we can chat about this topic if you want to.

 

[Snomannen]

I don't get it

You ridiculed that guy who declares Vietnam belongs to China by replying him "I declare that China belongs to Mongolia".
I'm not supporting his silly comment, but I think you are using the wrong "example", since China never belongs to Mongolia.

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

Of course you can, otherwise how could you find India and Vietnam?
In fact, there were not such countries named "India", "China" and "Vietnam",
but Delhi Sultanate (anciet Indian nation), Yuan Dynasty (ancient Chinese nation) and Dai Viet (anciet Vietnamese nation).

I know you may not agree with me, but we can chat about this topic if you want to.

oh ok ok
So:
Dai Viet was the defender of the South East Asia
Delhi Sultanate was defender of the South Asia
Han Chinese in Song dynasty had just run away

But Yuan Dynasty wasn't ancient Chinese nation, but the government of the Mongolian rulers in China and some other parts of the Asia. Han Chinese that time were just dominated people, whose country had been lost.

You ridiculed that guy who declares Vietnam belongs to China by replying him "I declare that China belongs to Mongolia".
I'm not supporting his silly comment, but I think you are using the wrong "example", since China never belongs to Mongolia.

Ok, no Vietnam, no China that time
His ridiculous comment is: "Au Lac, Nam Viet belong to Han dynasty"
My declaration should be: "Song belongs to Mongol"

 

[Snomannen]

oh ok ok
So:
Dai Viet was the defender of the South East Asia
Delhi Sultanate was defender of the South Asia
Han Chinese in Song dynasty had just run away


"Song belongs to Mongol"

Much better this time~

Yuan Dynasty was indeed an ancient Chinese nation, China is not only belong to Han Chinese.

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

Much better this time~

Yuan Dynasty was indeed an ancient Chinese nation, China is not only belongs to Han Chinese.

No, Yuan dynasty was Mongolian dynasty, under the Mongol Empire. The rulers were Mongolian, they came from Mongol and ruled Chinese. Unless you want to declare that Mongolian is in Chinese group, equivalent to Han Chinese...

 

[Snomannen]

Yuan dynasty was indeed (Chinese) Mongolian dynasty, it doesn't matter which ethnic groups the rulers were.
China is a multinational state established (just like Vietnam) by Chinese ethnic groups such as Manchurian, Han, Mongolian, Tibetan etc.

Besides,
The origin land of Mongolian, Holunbuyir, is belong to the PRC (native Chinese ethnic);
Mongol Empire is belong to Chinese history, just like Macedonian Empire is belong to Greek history.
The direct descendants of Genghis Khan (Golden Family) are Chinese.
More than half of Mongolian in the world are Chinese.

 

[starbuck]

In ancient time, SCS was a busy water route, which was called Maritime Silk Road. And there were several fisheries for Chinese fishermen. The odds that those islands were not found by ancient Chinese is zero. Actually, there were evidences once. On some of the islands, there were temples and tombs built by Chinese. But right after these islands were stolen, the evidences were wiped away by thief gov. And their ppl were told nothing was there. Our ancient books also mentioned these islands many times.

People lived in ancient time didn't have the concept of asserting sovereignty. I don't know to whom you claimed your sovereignty and how you maintained your sovereignty. Sounds funny that your ancestors could do the acts only modern ppl could do. And how your ancient gov managed these islands that are so far away from your mainland? There is word you guys always mentioned: brain-washed. By the way, there was no country called Vietnam in 1939. So Japan couldn't stole something from air. In 1939, China was fighting against Japan's invasion. France and Japan had not declared war to each other yet. For Japanese, there is only one explanation: They took the islands from China, not from France.

Cairo statement didn't mention Hainan island either. It always belongs to China. So we did't need Japanese to "return" us.

All I said are the truth. Ancient Chinese never claimed sovereignty to the islands. They just take it for granted that they own the water field. People at that time just didn't do it. Just like ancient people didn't play computer games. Your story is too perfect to be true.

I agree that Taiwan was officially given up by China in 1895. It belonged to Japan in 1939. But we officially took it back in 1945.

Hey Chinese, please see below to know how Vietnamese ancestors played "computer games" as you said:

1. Dai Nam Thuc Luc Chinh bien ( 大南實錄·大南寔錄 - A true record of Great Viet Nam) - Writen by National History Institue of Nguyen Dynasty, 1848
Tomb 52:
In the year of Binh Ty, the dynastic title Gia Long the 15th (1816)….The king sent the naval force and the Hoang Sa boat team to Hoang Sa to explore the sea route:
Tomb 165:
In the year of Binh Than, the dynastic title Minh Mang the 17th (1836), the spring of January 1st….Bo Cong reports: the Border of our country’s sea area has Hoang Sa (Paracels) land which is very important and vulnerable. In the past a physical map was drawn, very large but not clear. Every year, people were sent to explore so as to learn the sea route.
From this year on, when the end of January came, the naval force and the guards were to be sent on a boat to go to Quang Ngai in early February, asking Quang Ngai and Binh Dinh to lease 4 boats from the people to go to Hoang Sa island, to any island, any sandbank there; when the boats came, they started to measure the length and the width, the breadth and the height, the circuit of the island and the depth of the sea, the underground dumps, if any. And then they had to draw a map. They had to think about their departure date, which estuary they started, which direction they aimed to go to the island, then based on the route to estimate the length in miles. Then from the island to look towards the shore, aim straight to certain province, then change to stand squarely towards another province, to estimate the length from there to the shore. This must be carried out without delay and report it to the court”.

“The king having heard the report sent a naval force led by Pham Huu Nhat to go the island, bringing along 10 wooden boards so as to plant as marking board there (each board is 5m long, 50cm large, 10 cm thick inscribed with the words: Minh Mang the 17th, the year of Binh Than, commander Pham Huu Nhat of the naval force, ordered by the King to go to Hoang Sa to take care and make measurements for rememberance”.

2. Dai Nam Nhat Thong Chi (大南ー統志 - History of Unification of Great Viet Nam) Writen by National History Institue of Nguyen Dynasty, 1865-1910)

“In the East of Quang Ngai province there is the sand island (Hoang Sa, Paracels) with sandy beaches adjacent to the sea, used as the moat; in the Southwest of the highlands there were solid long ramparts, the South connecting to Binh Đinh there was Ben Da Pass blocking, in the North adjacent to Quang Nam province there was Sa Tho rapids as a boundary….

…. In the early time of King Gia Long, a Hoang Sa team was set up in accordance with the old custom, in early time of King Minh Mang, public boats were often sent to explore the sea route, having found a white sand bank with the circuit of 1,070 truong (one truong equals 10 metres) with green foliage all around, in the middle of the sandbank there was a well, in the Southwest, there was an ancient temple with unknown construction time, but it had a stele inscribed 4 words “Van Ly Ba Binh” (Thousands of miles with quiet waves). This sandbank was formerly called Phat Tu Son, in the East and the West of the island there were coral reefs with a 340-truong large sandbank coming to the surface called Ban Than Thach. In the year of Minh Mang the 16th, the king sent public boats to carry bricks and stones to build a temple and plant a stele there on the left of the temple to mark and put the tree seeds on the right, the left and behind the temple. While building the temple, the workers had found copper leaves and iron of 2,000 kilos in weight”.

3. Any Vietnamese here can translate some info from Châu Bản Triều Nguyễn (Imperial archives of the Nguyen dynasty) - UNESCO World Heritage Documents about our sovereignty activities to the whole WORLD and CHINA (separately)?. Sorry for my bad English

 

[SpiritHS]

Yuan dynasty was indeed (Chinese) Mongolian dynasty, it doesn't matter which ethnic groups the rulers were.
China is a multinational state established (just like Vietnam) by Chinese ethnic groups such as Manchurian, Han, Mongolian, Tibetan etc.

Besides, The origin land of Mongolian, Holunbuyir, is belong to the PRC.

We are not surprised with the way you say, because we know that the media and propaganda by the Chinese government with a long time propaganda was that: Japanese, Indians, USA, Russians, Vietnam, the Philippines, South Korea ..., stealing their resources.
Results Chinese government has created human with narrow nationalism, lies, and aggressive in the eyes of the international community.