16th December 1971: From East Pakistan to Bangladesh

[Saleem]

very good pakistan viewpoint: indo pak war 1971 by Hakeem Arshad Qureshi [Lt Col iun 1971 retired as Maj Gen]

 

[asad71]

Dude. start respecting veterans. Its coz of him Pakistan gave up in 15 days. We actually use to think Pakistan soldiers are equaly to 10 Indians etc etc. but it happaned vice versa. 3000 won over 30000. Pakistanis only say but Indians prove that 1 Indian = 10 Pakistani soliers.

1. Since you do not know your history,the commander of the joint Indo-BD forces was Gen Jagjit Singh Arora.A thorough gentleman, a superb soldier, he was somewhat introverted shunning publicity. The battles in the war were fought as per his plans and orders -which were again in keeping with the larger goals set by Indira Gandhi, Jagjivan Ram,Manekshaw,Tajuddin and Osmani. The decisions and responsibilities in his theater/command were always Arora's to bear.

2. Since you are not conversant with the way military functions, the commander has a staff who detail out his wishes/orders and issues these to subordinate units/formations/commanders to carry out. The staff do not take any decision or issue any orders save and except on behalf of the commander.

3. This Jacob guy as the COS, or head of Arora's staff just used to carry out his commander's wishes. During the War nobody ever heard of this Jacob character. After he wrote hisbook on the war,his former comrades have totally boycotted him. He is not invited to their functions.In that book he has totally ignored his commander taking total credit to himself - when there was none due.Chanting slogans like, Joi Bangla/Joi Bangobandhu he has oiled Hasina to get an award in BD and regular invitations.

4.I have shaken hands with the great Arora several times.So you can sit and calculate my age.

 

[Saleem]

and you forget...the main planner and commander for the muktis, Gen Shahbeg Singh....ended up opposing the bharati tyranny in punjab and was killed in operation blue star the bharato attack on the golden temple....
"des ho ya perdes"....punjabi sikh movie.....

 

[WAR-rior]

1. Since you do not know your history,the commander of the joint Indo-BD forces was Gen Jagjit Singh Arora.A thorough gentleman, a superb soldier, he was somewhat introverted shunning publicity. The battles in the war were fought as per his plans and orders -which were again in keeping with the larger goals set by Indira Gandhi, Jagjivan Ram,Manekshaw,Tajuddin and Osmani. The decisions and responsibilities in his theater/command were always Arora's to bear.

2. Since you are not conversant with the way military functions, the commander has a staff who detail out his wishes/orders and issues these to subordinate units/formations/commanders to carry out. The staff do not take any decision or issue any orders save and except on behalf of the commander.

3. This Jacob guy as the COS, or head of Arora's staff just used to carry out his commander's wishes. During the War nobody ever heard of this Jacob character. After he wrote hisbook on the war,his former comrades have totally boycotted him. He is not invited to their functions.In that book he has totally ignored his commander taking total credit to himself - when there was none due.Chanting slogans like, Joi Bangla/Joi Bangobandhu he has oiled Hasina to get an award in BD and regular invitations.

4.I have shaken hands with the great Arora several times.So you can sit and calculate my age.

Ohh is it. Great to talk to a veteran. But dont you think, no matter who calls the orders or what oreders they are, the person conveying it has a responsibility and need more conviction then the orders caller. If not for the messenger's awe, the things wont get conveyed the way one wants to be. If not for Jacob's conviction who communicated with Gen. Niazi, it wont be possible for a 30k army surrendering to 3k one.

And again, see the video carefully. Jacob himself said that he was lucky and still cant believe they surrendered so easily. He never sounded like taking credit as suggested by your post.

 

[RAMPAGE]

@asad71

I've heard about PA soldiers raping and killing bengali civilians in 71 ....... do you confirm that ???

 

[asad71]

Ohh is it. Great to talk to a veteran. But dont you think, no matter who calls the orders or what oreders they are, the person conveying it has a responsibility and need more conviction then the orders caller. If not for the messenger's awe, the things wont get conveyed the way one wants to be. If not for Jacob's conviction who communicated with Gen. Niazi, it wont be possible for a 30k army surrendering to 3k one.

And again, see the video carefully. Jacob himself said that he was lucky and still cant believe they surrendered so easily. He never sounded like taking credit as suggested by your post.

Read his book and you will know how disloyal he is to his old commander.And the book was published after Arora had died.No respect for a dead comrade also.

 

[asad71]

@asad71

I've heard about PA soldiers raping and killing bengali civilians in 71 ....... do you confirm that ???

1.I was once a proud PA officer,and I am ashamed to say that is true.However, there has been too much of exaggeration in later reports.

2.Allowing rapes and wanton killings only degrade the discipline and moral force in any fighting unit. No commander will allow this. In this War PA deployment was too extended often with small detachments isolated under junior NCOs. Later WP Rangers and Police elements committed the max mischief.

3. Senior commanders of PA must,however, bear the major blame. Troops on way to BD were told to expect only Hindus in BD. Therefore, their attitude was already negative. Give you one example. Tochi Scouts were deployed in Sylhet. When they heard azan ringing out from mosques all around they were puzzled. At that time rural Pakistan did not have many mosques and azan was not heard every where always.And then they saw rows of people praying in mosques. This particular wing of the Tochi Scouts had refused to shoot at fellow Muslims and were withdrawn.

 

[RAMPAGE]

1.I was once a proud PA officer,and I am ashamed to say that is true.However, there has been too much of exaggeration in later reports.

2.Allowing rapes and wanton killings only degrade the discipline and moral force in any fighting unit. No commander will allow this. In this War PA deployment was too extended often with small detachments isolated under junior NCOs. Later WP Rangers and Police elements committed the max mischief.

3. Senior commanders of PA must,however, bear the major blame. Troops on way to BD were told to expect only Hindus in BD. Therefore, their attitude was already negative. Give you one example. Tochi Scouts were deployed in Sylhet. When they heard azan ringing out from mosques all around they were puzzled. At that time rural Pakistan did not have many mosques and azan was not heard every where always.And then they saw rows of people praying in mosques. This particular wing of the Tochi Scouts had refused to shoot at fellow Muslims and were withdrawn.

How can a muslim soldier rape and kill their own brothers and sisters ???

Btw do you think that the fallen muslim soldiers of 71 from both sides deserved the military decorations they got ???

 

[asad71]

1. Killing the enemy is what wars are about - mostly. But killing unarmed civilians who are own population and committing atrocities against women reduce a soldier to the lowest level of human being. These are disgrace to the uniform they wear,they dishonor their families and are a blot on humanity. PA had lost the war when they started these.

2.A soldier is a soldier.He fights for the comrade standing next to him.He fights for the honor of his unit.He fights because he loves his commander who mustn't be letdown. He fights for his country and faith.

 

[WAR-rior]

Read his book and you will know how disloyal he is to his old commander.And the book was published after Arora had died.No respect for a dead comrade also.

Hope you dont mind providing the link. I wud be interested to do as u suggested. Regards.

 

[WAR-rior]

1.I was once a proud PA officer,and I am ashamed to say that is true.However, there has been too much of exaggeration in later reports.

2.Allowing rapes and wanton killings only degrade the discipline and moral force in any fighting unit. No commander will allow this. In this War PA deployment was too extended often with small detachments isolated under junior NCOs. Later WP Rangers and Police elements committed the max mischief.

3. Senior commanders of PA must,however, bear the major blame. Troops on way to BD were told to expect only Hindus in BD. Therefore, their attitude was already negative. Give you one example. Tochi Scouts were deployed in Sylhet. When they heard azan ringing out from mosques all around they were puzzled. At that time rural Pakistan did not have many mosques and azan was not heard every where always.And then they saw rows of people praying in mosques. This particular wing of the Tochi Scouts had refused to shoot at fellow Muslims and were withdrawn.

So you mean to say the Pak Army members commited atrocities citing them as Hindus? Lame I believe. I understand that irrespective of religion, Pak army in West wud had never accepted Bengalis above them. Can you explain why was Mujibur Rehman refused as PM after gaining huge majority in Pakistani elections and later arrested? Can you explain why did Tikka Khan said, 'We want the land, dont care bout the people'. You are saying the even a General believed that there will be only Hindus in Bangladesh? I smell some conspiracy theory in you statements Sir where you are trying to hide the fact that two nation theory was discomforted by Pakistan and then rejected by Bengalis coz they understood that irrespective of their religion, they would always be 2nd grade citizen in the name of their culture and language. Two nation theory wud have been success if whole east and west Pakistan was considered as one and hence Election result was calculated as a whole which West Pakistanis refused to accept. They refused to accept Bengali language and culture. West Pakistan itself insulted two nation theory which made Bengalis part away.

 

[Shinigami]

How can a muslim soldier rape and kill their own brothers and sisters ???

Btw do you think that the fallen muslim soldiers of 71 from both sides deserved the military decorations they got ???

3. Senior commanders of PA must,however, bear the major blame. Troops on way to BD were told to expect only Hindus in BD. Therefore, their attitude was already negative. Give you one example. Tochi Scouts were deployed in Sylhet. When they heard azan ringing out from mosques all around they were puzzled. At that time rural Pakistan did not have many mosques and azan was not heard every where always.And then they saw rows of people praying in mosques. This particular wing of the Tochi Scouts had refused to shoot at fellow Muslims and were withdrawn.

so raping hindu women is ok. very enlightening. explains a lot about the subcontinent history

 

[asad71]

Hope you dont mind providing the link. I wud be interested to do as u suggested. Regards.

Surrender at Dacca: Birth of a Nation (ISBN 984-05-1395-8)

 

[Saiful Islam]

@asad71 it would be great to hear some more war time stories from you

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Bangladesh hangs Islamist leader despite U.N. objections

Dhaka, Bangladesh (CNN) -- Bangladesh hanged an Islamist leader Thursday despite pleas not to from the United Nations.

The execution came after the country's Supreme Court upheld the death sentence against Abdul Quader Mollah, state-run news agency BSS reported.

Mollah was sentenced in September after being convicted of crimes against humanity that date back to 1971, during the country's war for independence.

The execution, originally scheduled for Tuesday, was delayed by the Supreme Court at the last minute.

Mollah was the assistant secretary general for the Jamaat-e-Islami party, which earlier this year was banned from taking part in elections.

Court decisions in his case, and others against senior Jamaat leaders have resulted in violent protests in the streets.

In February, he was convicted of war crimes by an international panel set up by the government in an attempt to bring to justice those accused of atrocities.

He was originally sentenced to life in prison, but many Bangladeshis held protests saying the sentence wasn't harsh enough.

The Supreme Court then sentenced him to death. In the country's legal system, that decision cannot be appealed.

Concerns over trial

Two U.N. human rights experts called on Bangladesh on Monday to halt the execution because of concerns that Mollah did not receive a fair trial.

"The right of appeal is of particular importance in death penalty cases," said Gabriela Knaul, U.N. special rapporteur on the independence of judges and lawyers.

"Anyone convicted of a crime has the right to have his or her conviction and sentence reviewed by a higher tribunal, as laid down in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights to which Bangladesh is a party," she said in a statement.

"This provision is violated where a court of final instance imposes a harsher sentence that cannot be reviewed," the statement said.

Christof Heyns, U.N. special rapporteur on summary executions, said capital punishment "may be imposed only following a trial that complied with fair trial and due process safeguards. ... Only full respect for stringent due process guarantees distinguishes capital punishment as possibly permitted under international law from a summary execution, which by definition violates human rights standards."

On Tuesday, U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay called for a stay, saying the trial had not met stringent international standards for the death penalty, the U.N. said in a statement.

The United Nations opposes the death penalty in any circumstance.

Political tensions

Jamaat, a major ally of the main opposition party Bangladesh Nationalist Party (BNP), is a constant thorn in the side of the ruling Awami League.

Jaamat enjoys considerable support, particularly in rural areas. And periodically, it mobilizes its adherents in large-scale demonstrations in Dhaka to show its strength.

But it has faced pressure from the Awami League and progressive groups that point to Jammat's role during Bangladesh's struggle for independence from Pakistan.

Between 1 million and 3 million people were killed in the nine-month war.

The International Crimes Tribunal, the court set up by the government in 2010, has convicted several other top Jamaat leaders of crimes against humanity.

Jamaat acknowledges that it opposed Bangladesh's struggle for independence, but it has decried what it calls a smear campaign against it.

It has also questioned why the Awami League is only now pressing forward on war crimes trials when it didn't do so while in power during the 1970s and 1990s.

Bangladesh hangs Islamist leader over U.N. objections - CNN.com