16th December 1971: From East Pakistan to Bangladesh

[Apprentice]

At least One Pakistani knows his history and observe it without nationalist Bias. The truth is we were considered lesser Muslim therefore not fit to rule Pakistan. Suhrawardi was sidelined for this.

Then why was Nurul Amin in charge of Pakistan during 1971?

Why was Iskander Mirza the first general to declare martial law?

Why were Bogra, Nazimuddin and Surawardy all leaders of Pakistan in 1950s? (And please don't say they were dismissed due to being Bengali, because even West Pakistani leaders such as Sardar Abdur Rab Nishtar were unfairly dismissed during that same time period).

If Pakistan was all that bad to Bengalis, then a significant section of Bengalis would not have been loyal (or even neutral) to Pakistan in 1971

 

[kobiraaz]

Then why was Nurul Amin in charge of Pakistan during 1971?

Why was Iskander Mirza the first general to declare martial law?

Why were Bogra, Nazimuddin and Surawardy all leaders of Pakistan in 1950s? (And please don't say they were dismissed due to being Bengali, because even West Pakistani leaders such as Sardar Abdur Rab Nishtar were unfairly dismissed during that same time period).

If Pakistan was all that bad to Bengalis, then a significant section of Bengalis would not have been loyal (or even neutral) to Pakistan in 1971

Good questions. Urdu speaking people who lived in Bengal are not considered Bengali. These Muslim league leaders you mentioned had no affinity to Bengali

 

[Asaf Baloch]

At least One Pakistani knows his history and observe it without nationalist Bias. The truth is we were considered lesser Muslim therefore not fit to rule Pakistan. Suhrawardi was sidelined for this.

There are many more my friend. Both Bangladeshis and Pakistanis must get rid of hatred. Joy bangla, Pakistan zindabad

 

[extra terrestrial]

Good questions. Urdu speaking people who lived in Bengal are not considered Bengali. These Muslim league leaders you mentioned had no affinity to Bengali

Well, I disagree.

A Bengali could well be an Urdu speaker or a speaker of any language, out of necessity. Take the Bangladeshi diaspora for an example... A lot of them cannot speak Bengali but are accustomed to the local languages of the places they reside in.

Another instance would be people like Begum Rokeya and A K Fazlul Haq who were pretty fluent Urdu speakers...

Coming back to the topic of Muslim League leaders, be it Khawja Nazimuddin, Muhammad Ali Bogra, Hussein Suhrawardy or Nurul Amin, they may have their own political strategies but all of them were born in erstwhile Bengal and used to identify themselves as Bengalis. I don't think there is any reason to not consider them Bengalis...

 

[kobiraaz]

Well, I disagree.

A Bengali could well be an Urdu speaker or a speaker of any language, out of necessity. Take the Bangladeshi diaspora for an example... A lot of them cannot speak Bengali but are accustomed to the local languages of the places they reside in.

Another instance would be people like Begum Rokeya and A K Fazlul Haq who were pretty fluent Urdu speakers...

Coming back to the topic of Muslim League leaders, be it Khawja Nazimuddin, Muhammad Ali Bogra, Hussein Suhrawardy or Nurul Amin, they may have their own political strategies but all of them were born in erstwhile Bengal and used to identify themselves as Bengalis. I don't think there is any reason to not consider them Bengalis...

I thought Khaza Nazimuddin was from Nawab family and they were Urdu speakers. I know few of the nawab family and they speak urdu even today.

 

[Bilal9]

I thought Khaza Nazimuddin was from Nawab family and they were Urdu speakers. I know few of the nawab family and they speak urdu even today.

এইডা হাসা কথা কোইসুইন।

 

[extra terrestrial]

I thought Khaza Nazimuddin was from Nawab family and they were Urdu speakers. I know few of the nawab family and they speak urdu even today.

Yep he was, so was Muhammad Ali Bogra (descendant of Nawab Nabab Ali Chowdhury of Tangail).

Some of them do speak Urdu, but Urdu speaking is not really limited to the Nawab family alone. Those living in the Old Dhaka would know that many people belonging to Islampur and adjoining areas also speak Urdu.

I was once reading an anthropological article on the Bengalis living in Pakistan. At one point, the author quoted an interview with a descendant of the Nawab family as a representative of the community, which means the individual identified himself as a Bengali, even in Pakistan...

Issues like ethnicity are part of the identity of an individual which is entirely a personal thing/choice in my opinion... We can't really judge them based upon these things...

 

[Bilal9]

Yep he was, so was Muhammad Ali Bogra (descendant of Nawab Nabab Ali Chowdhury of Tangail).

Some of them do speak Urdu, but Urdu speaking is not really limited to the Nawab family alone. Those living in the Old Dhaka would know that many people belonging to Islampur and adjoining areas also speak Urdu.

I was once reading an anthropological article on the Bengalis living in Pakistan. At one point, the author quoted an interview with a descendant of the Nawab family as a representative of the community, which means the individual identified himself as a Bengali, even in Pakistan...

Issues like ethnicity are part of the identity of an individual which is entirely a personal thing/choice in my opinion... We can't really judge them based upon these things...

Speaking Urdu was de riguer in upper class Muslim families then living in Kolkatta. Like the Suhrawardys. They were a prime example.

Most of the upper-class Muslims in Dhaka including the Nawab family spoke Urdu between themselves. That is how they differentiated themselves from Hindus and the not-so-aristocratic. Of course they suffered the most in the events leading up to 1971 because they threw their support behind the idea of a united Pakistan. Khwaja Hassan Askari's house was burnt down by the awami hooligans in 1969 I believe. They lived behind Paribagh Shah Sahib's Dargah and they had to leave for Pakistan with their whole family by 1975. Sad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwaja_Hassan_Askari

The newest generation of Dhaka's Nawab Family is different though. They are highly educated, accomplished and speak mostly English.

 

[extra terrestrial]

Speaking Urdu was de riguer in upper class Muslim families then living in Kolkatta. Like the Suhrawardys. They were a prime example.

Most of the upper-class Muslims in Dhaka including the Nawab family spoke Urdu between themselves. That is how they differentiated themselves from Hindus and the not-so-aristocratic. Of course they suffered the most in the events leading up to 1971 because they threw their support behind the idea of a united Pakistan. Khwaja Hassan Askari's house was burnt down by the awami hooligans in 1969 I believe. They lived behind Paribagh Shah Sahib's Dargah and they had to leave for Pakistan with their whole family by 1975. Sad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwaja_Hassan_Askari

The newest generation of Dhaka's Nawab Family is different though. They are highly educated, accomplished and speak mostly English.

Well, the nawab family is quite large actually, it's a clan in itself!

Just like every other society in Bangladesh, descendants of this family are divided into several economic classes, from lower to upper. What you said is true for only the upper class people, like Khawja Sarfaraz for example, the guitarist of Cryptic Fate.

I think it was a supplement of Daily Star (perhaps an issue of The Star) where they published a detailed story on the present day conditions of the descendants of the family. In the article, they also interviewed a descendant now a 'puri' seller in old Dhaka...

We are going off topic BTW...

 

[bongbang]

Well, the nawab family is quite large actually, it's a clan in itself!

Just like every other society in Bangladesh, descendants of this family are divided into several economic classes, from lower to upper. What you said is true for only the upper class people, like Khawja Sarfaraz for example, the guitarist of Cryptic Fate.

I think it was a supplement of Daily Star (perhaps an issue of The Star) where they published a detailed story on the present day conditions of the descendants of the family. In the article, they also interviewed a descendant now a 'puri' seller in old Dhaka...

We are going off topic BTW...

You are posting as if these are real nawabs. These are migrants from Indian north west region during British rule early 20th century. Hindu landlords were known as Zamindars/Raja and Muslims landlords/Zamindars were often known as nawabs. The Dhaka nawab family is a landholder around Dhaka area not whole BD, there were other nawabs around the country, for example Comilla, Brahmanbaria, Tangail Nawabs.
The real nawabs will be Mughal rulers designated for whole Bangla, independent or under Mughal influence. Im pointing out this to clear if there are any misconceptions. Im lineage of nawab alivardi khan with a mix of comilla nawabs of Mughal lineage can attest this we can speak perfect Bengali, its the Urdu migrant nawabs during the British rule cant.

 

[extra terrestrial]

You are posting as if these are real nawabs. These are migrants from Indian north west region during British rule early 20th century. Hindu landlords were known as Zamindars/Raja and Muslims landlords/Zamindars were often known as nawabs. The Dhaka nawab family is a landholder around Dhaka area not whole BD, there were other nawabs around the country, for example Comilla, Brahmanbaria, Tangail Nawabs.
The real nawabs will be Mughal rulers designated for whole Bangla, independent or under Mughal influence. Im pointing out this to clear if there are any misconceptions. Im lineage of nawab alivardi khan with a mix of comilla nawabs of Mughal lineage can attest this we can speak perfect Bengali, its the Urdu migrant nawabs during the British rule cant.

What's real nawab and fake nawab?

Nobody really inherited the title 'Nawab' since birth, it was conferred upon, whether by the Mughals or the British is a different matter...

It was obviously a zamindar family but they were popularly known as the Nawab Family of Dhaka. Here is a Banglapedia entry of that family: http://en.banglapedia.org/index.php?title=Nawab_Family_of_Dhaka

And it looks like you have a poor knowledge about the history of the family. They first migrated to Bengal (Sylhet and Dhaka) in the early 18th century from Kashmir...

Also, it's really foolish to say that the nawabs couldn't speak Bengali. After settling here, members from the family married the locals. Besides, they were quite active in the Bengali politics as well as the cultural affairs...

BTW Nawab Alivardi Khan was also a migrant from the Deccan in the 18th century but not a Mughal lineage, a Persian perhaps... @kobiraaz can confirm...

And I didn't know there is a trace of the family of Alivardi Khan... There was a report on a possible descendant of Nawab Sirajuddoula,
ঢাকায় এখন বসবাস করেন নবাব সিরাজ উদ-দৌলার বংশধররা
Are you related by any chance?

Also you may want to check out this family-tree page for some of the historic families in Bangladesh: http://www1.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=gupshup1&view=9&ver=1382

 

[bongbang]

What's real nawab and fake nawab?

Nobody really inherited the title 'Nawab' since birth, it was conferred upon, whether by the Mughals or the British is a different matter...

It was obviously a zamindar family but they were popularly known as the Nawab Family of Dhaka. Here is a Banglapedia entry of that family: http://en.banglapedia.org/index.php?title=Nawab_Family_of_Dhaka

And it looks like you have a poor knowledge about the history of the family. They first migrated to Bengal (Sylhet and Dhaka) in the early 18th century from Kashmir...

Also, it's really foolish to say that the nawabs couldn't speak Bengali. After settling here, members from the family married the locals. Besides, they were quite active in the Bengali politics as well as the cultural affairs...

BTW Nawab Alivardi Khan was also a migrant from the Deccan in the 18th century but not a Mughal lineage, a Persian perhaps... @kobiraaz can confirm...

And I didn't know there is a trace of the family of Alivardi Khan... There was a report on a possible descendant of Nawab Sirajuddoula,
ঢাকায় এখন বসবাস করেন নবাব সিরাজ উদ-দৌলার বংশধররা
Are you related by any chance?

Also you may want to check out this family-tree page for some of the historic families in Bangladesh: http://www1.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=gupshup1&view=9&ver=1382

Im saying Mughal influenced Nawabs are real Nawabs, not saying any Mughal lineage but of Mughal empire. The Nawabs who took the title during British are not real Nawabs its just self styled Nawab titles of the Muslim landlords. My problem was you were not using the prefix "Dhaka" before "the Nawab" and it was sounding as if they are the Nawabs of total BD/Bengal. And I dont know how these people are deriving the lineage in the article you posted. They can derive lineage from mother's side or even can relate from uncle, Alivardi Khan had younger brother. Who will go thoroughly these? My grandfather said this in his deathbed. If he was alive now and I had more time and interest, could investigate by some last remaining of his brothers. We have idea by the family title and from where they migrated. But in the article you posted saying about one lineage from 6th generation. We are not like that subjugated type we have influence in south west region but seems we have some commonality with that family from Murshidabad to Khulna to Dhaka. Asking in south west regions we find that many people are our distant cousins. Going back to 3-4 generations we have a clan of our own, the relation fades away above that.

 

[extra terrestrial]

Im saying Mughal influenced Nawabs are real Nawabs, not saying any Mughal lineage but of Mughal empire. The Nawabs who took the title during British are not real Nawabs its just self styled Nawab titles of the Muslim landlords. My problem was you were not using the prefix "Dhaka" before "the Nawab" and it was sounding as if they are the Nawabs of total BD/Bengal. And I dont know how these people are deriving the lineage in the article you posted. They can derive lineage from mother's side or even can relate from uncle, Alivardi Khan had younger brother. Who will go thoroughly these? My grandfather said this in his deathbed. If he was alive now and I had more time and interest, could investigate by some last remaining of his brothers. We have idea by the family title and from where they migrated. But in the article you posted saying about one lineage from 6th generation. We are not like that subjugated type we have influence in south west region but seems we have some commonality with that family from Murshidabad to Khulna to Dhaka. Asking in south west regions we find that many people are our distant cousins. Going back to 3-4 generations we have a clan of our own, the relation fades away above that.

Well, my argument was there's no fake or real nawab as both had the title conferred upon them. I was not using the prefix 'Dhaka' since those involved in the discussion already knew that the context is about the Nawab Family of Dhaka... Anyway, to differentiate, you could use the phrases like Nawab of Murshidabad and Nawab of Dhaka...

Though they were mere zamindars but the Nawabs of Dhaka were quite influential in the fact that they heavily influenced the British Raj polices in East Bengal. Also, the Shia community of Bengal, based in Hosni Dalan of Dhaka, used to consider the Mughal Subedar as their custodian. After the death of the last Nazim, they declared the Nawabs of Dhaka as their custodian...

AFAIK, Alivardi Khan didn't have any sons... so the lineage would have to be maternal... However, since we live in a patriarchal society, I'm not sure how significant it is...

Family titles in Bangladesh means nothing... You will find many having a prominent title in their names but not really belonging to the lineage...

I would urge you to investigate, if possible... It's fun actually, knowing your ancestors...

BTW, you were saying you also have a lineage to the Comilla based Nawabs, I would like to know more about that, if it's okay with you...

 

[kobiraaz]

Alivardi Khan had 3 Daughters. All of them were married to sons of his only brother.

 

[masud]

একদিন একজন মহিলাকে রাস্তার মধ্যে কিছু লোক ধর্ষণ করছিল।।.তো হঠাৎ করে রাস্তা দিয়ে হেঁটে যাচ্ছিলেন একজন ভদ্রলোক, তিনি এই দৃশ্য দেখে মানবতার খাতিরে ফিল্মি স্টাইলে ওই মহিলাকে বাঁচালেন। .তারপর মহিলাটাকে ওই ভদ্রলোক নিজের বাড়িতে নিয়ে গেলেন তার চিকিৎসা করালেন তাকে আশ্রয় দিলেন। কিন্তু ভদ্র লোকটি আসলে ভদ্র ছিলেন না। তিনিও ওই ধর্ষকদের মতই ছিলেন। তিনিও ওই ধর্ষকদের মত মহিলাটাকে দেখে তার চেতনা জেগে উঠে। .এজন্য তিনি রাস্তার মধ্যে এসব না করে তাকে বাসায় আটকে রেখে আজ পর্যন্ত প্রত্যেক দিন ধর্ষণ করে চলেছেন। .কি মর্মান্তিক তাই না? .এবার আসেন আসল কথায়। ধর্ষক গুলা ছিলেন ১৯৭১ সালের পাক সেনারা আর ভদ্রলোকটি হচ্ছেন ভারত। আর ধর্ষিত মহিলাটি হচ্ছে বাংলাদেশ! .তারা আমাদের প্রতিনিয়ত ধর্ষণ করে চলেছেন।