Featured 10 soldiers martyred, 1militant killed and 3 apprehended when BLF attacked military check post in Balochistan's Kech district

[Patriot forever]

One imp link that @Horus missed in his chain is local elements who continue to render support to militants.

it can go both ways as we saw few years back - rise in sectarian attacks.

And the missing person apologists or the particular segment in our judiciary.

We should understand that many posters here are from this crowd and the particular reason they are here is they found an opportunity to bash army. I am sure if the army goes full throttle against the support structure of these terrorist organization it will irk many embassies, many so called human rights organization or freedom of expression champions and many woke crowd.

 

[SQ8]

What is the reasoning behind holding these posts by the way? Do they provide more coverage or some sort of strategic advantage as opposed to less and more consolidated, concentrated posts.

I honestly don’t know and would rather let @PanzerKiel or people related to the actual profession answer that.
I know that it has been a tried tactic in insurgency and has at times worked but then it also makes the juiciest target for combined attack. US posts like this were sometimes attacked with 200+ Taliban and they were wiped out because the USAF could maintain B-52 patrols or launch Apache QRFs from FOBsz
My uninformed guess is that this posts was established without the necessary support in place by a few tiers up the chain and NO, the COAS isn’t one to go down and direct how a single post in Balochistan is being deployed. That accountability starts up the chain and then even in wartime that file should get to his desk weekly on a briefing.
THIS ISNT A DEFENSE OF THE CURRENT Leadership but a defense of the process.

If any of these criticisms for the sake of criticism actually worked in an organization larger than the 10 person usual for employers in Pakistan they would understand chain of command and accountability structures.

My previous organization had 7000 employees with 7 individual business units(corps) and those have sub-divisions that focus on particular industries(geography) and solutions(capabilities). If lets say a massive deal was lost within a particular sub-division the first forensic step isn’t the CEO running down to see what happened. It the division Sales-VP and Director of revenue having a meeting and breaking down the problem. Then any corrective actions undertaken are done WITHIN that structure itself and don’t involve the CEO because those senior managers within that division have it as part of their responsibility and accountability to fix it. Now lets say they failed and the fix wasn’t upto the standard the next in line is surprise-surprise NOT the CEO but the President of that Business unit to step in and fix the problem. However, while all this is happening the CEO of this private company is getting a quiet awareness briefing but DOESNT run down and run sales for that division himself. When the Business unit President and the CEO have their next meeting he(CEO) brings the problem up and asks for an update - then requests he be kept appraised briefly.

Now if it turns out the CEO is not undertaking his part of the accountability the first people he answers to are members of the board(corps commanders, Min Def,PM) - if they feel his Leadership has an issue they can vote them out. Now if the CEO has a lot of political power(as does happen in the private sector as well) there are legal efforts that can be initiated. Because then the CEO will not just have disgruntled employees to deal with but also shareholders.
However, if the structure for both shareholders to hold the CEO doesn’t exist or work and if the shareholders don’t have the will or intent to take every possible route to initiate informed and intelligent change then basically they are jackasses and deserve their fate.

To exemplify what I wrote on the chain of command and responsibilities/experience for each officer of the company.

When I started working in a corporate environment I would give 3 paragraph emails to my manager on the status of work.

As I moved up the chain my emails shortened to a para or less with key points of what those under me were doing to the division VP.

And now when my CEO writes to the division President on something he read regarding an issue it isn’t a paragraph.

Its “See above - thoughts?”

And if the reply is more than 10 sentences then he likely is berated for not summing it up well.

One of my favorite depictions of the chain of command is in the movie “Margin call” which I recommend all those actually looking to understand how large organizations be it Microsoft or Pakistan Army work.

The reason we pay big bucks to the COAS isn’t because we expect him to use his 30-40 year experience to solve a tactical miscalculation or localized strategy - but to interpret a single slide and formulate directives to 2 key people to what they need to elaborate down the chain and solve it for.

And, if they are ineffective in doing that and then the system is incapable/unwilling to hold them accountable then basically you’re on a sinking ship and time to get out.

 

[KAKhan]

May not be entirely relevant to the discussion here but i think the professional culture of Pakistan Army needs to be reformed. Right from the start of their careers, the best officers are posted to staff appointments, which prepares them to become paper tigers not good for actual combat. Staff appointments in Division/Brigade, Instructor appointments in Military Institutes are coveted, much more than commanding troops. Accordingly best officers are rewarded with such staff appointments successively in their life, keeping them away from the front.

Dissenting opinion is not encouraged and is considered detrimental so career officers become trained to making their bosses happy. By the time they become General Officers, they are not treated as soldiers but better than royalty, whereby everything is done to pamper them.

Not everyone is the same and there are good out there. But overall i believe we need a change of culture, as it trickles down to the efficiency of the entire war machine.

 

[SQ8]

May not be entirely relevant to the discussion here but i think the professional culture of Pakistan Army needs to be reformed. Right from the start of their careers, the best officers are posted to staff appointments, which prepares them to become paper tigers not good for actual combat. Staff appointments in Division/Brigade, Instructor appointments in Military Institutes are coveted, much more than commanding troops. Accordingly best officers are rewarded with such staff appointments successively in their life, keeping them away from the front.

Dissenting opinion is not encouraged and is considered detrimental so career officers become trained to making their bosses happy. By the time they become General Officers, they are not treated as soldiers but better than royalty, whereby everything is done to pamper them.

Not everyone is the same and there are good out there. But overall i believe we need a change of culture, as it trickles down to the efficiency of the entire war machine.

The cultural change has to percolate across Pakistan. However, following orders is part of military discipline otherwise you have a collection of men with guns who may want to fight together if they feel like it.
Even in the US military, orders are objected to and heard but if the commander insists they are carried out even if with expletives flying. However, they are able to go around their chain of command to provide a proper objection and structures exist to get this accountability without retribution. Pakistani culture however is too regressive at this point to understand this(even if reportedly some startups are changing this)

 

[Chacha_Facebooka]

Mushy made us into passive Cucks, he rolled back all our offensive footprint and instead liberalize the nation to indulge in open debauchery in all facets of life.

He dismantled the strategic depth doctrine which had worked affectively by keeping India, Iran and even Soviets at bay.

We need another Ziaul Haq to come in change the mindset by setting our adversaries' cities on fire, from Afghanistan to crossing the Amu river in Soviet Union proper to Khalistan and onto Kashmir, who had the kahoonays to sit across from all the arab leaders and berate them to their faces for expelling Egypt from the Arab League and the tell Jimmy Carter to keep his peanuts.

How did strategic depth doctrine work? Most of the current mess is because of it.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Put the Balochistan province under Marshal law then.

They lost a major commander hence this, and again it looks like the FC were attacked.
Kill and destroy them all. The army needs to finish every last one of these communist terrorist filth who raise arms.

These so called traitors, we should use tactical nukes against them, if we have to.

 

[SQ8]

One imp link that @Horus missed in his chain is local elements who continue to render support to militants.

it can go both ways as we saw few years back - rise in sectarian attacks.

Unfortunately they do - even with the educated Baloch the decades of neglect has it to a point where they do propagate separatist ideals while working within Pakistani state structure.

Why that will never occur is simply because unlike Bangladesh or even KP there is too much Balochistan and too few Balochis to do anything other than harassment attacks. Its better to break down the narrative and apply the “hearts and minds” model by force. However, the Indians(with elements in Iran cooperating) are doing the same as well from their end so it depends on who has more resources and/or is smarter about it.

The other thread on the RAW network in Karachi is another aspect of the problem.

Here - Ill take the hate and entitled abuse, get banned and give Indians orgasms

Pakistan is a FAILED STATE
Pakistanis live in a FAILED STATE
Pakistanis are OK living in that Failed state because they are content with their OWN state.. their proverbial Dherh eenth ki masjid
They want miracles without efforts and when it doesn’t get delivered they rant and rave but without actually doing anything.
Every Pakistani is prepared to kill the other in defending their tiny fiefdoms but will Die before they actually look inward.

It is a Failed state with a failed people because they were unable to provide the basic necessities and one institution in the military has been by requirements had to undertake everything from uplift to education and so on. Tasks it wasn’t always qualified for and so the results couldn’t be attained effectively as well.

So, if by tactical or strategic mistake 10 men were martyred.. just like the thousands before them NOT a SINGLE civilian representative held them accountable. Not a single CIVILIAN REPRESENTATIVE briefed their constituents on if they even asked about it because NOT A SINGLE CIVILIAN held their representative accountable to answer this question. Whether primarily out of fear of the powerful or apathy - Pakistanis really do not actually care in general about those poor men. Maybe if there was a # run on this they would trend it for a week but that is that.

The murderer involved in a grusome atrocity which supposedly “changed the landscape” and the people had “enough with the elite and powerful” just had prime testimonies changed to move towards walking free and its no longer a trending topic.

Maybe these guys can talk on Fire Imran or Fire Bajwa to fix that as well. Lets see what Bani Pakistan achieves by changing them.

The status quo is that people who do their job in honesty will continue to fight the good fight and their colleagues will get in their way along with the 1001 problems with the state and nation.

We can dissect the engagement on the post and lessons will be learned and applied by many in the military. But then by murphy’s law another mistake will happen and the bleeding will continue. This tit for tat and no solution to the problem in Balochistan and with no other aspect of the state capable and/or willing to make the difficult decisions (cultural problem) there isn’t going to be a resolution to this.

 

[uzbi aka viper]

Calm down bruh. This ain't your COD going on. Things don't work like this.

yes sir, you are right...and you know what ? army hierarchy is low on testosterone these days ...should we play malika tarunnam noor jahan to rush adrnaline in them ! army is our pride ...if army isnt safe within pakistans territory should we normal pakistanis feel safe?.....its isnt cod but how many men would fall till we wake up to the point that we should do something about our western front , should we wait for another a.p.s type something? pardon me.

 

[Mirzah]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1486436737203191812

 

[uzbi aka viper]

fencing on afghanistan border has been completed, fencing on iranian border is the need of hour...we would be having huge stakes in balochistan in upcoming years.

gawader
trade
tourism
reko dik
cpec
minerals
gas pipelines
industrial zones

i mean who on earth would invest in such place after this chaos.

 

[Valar.]

Inna lilla wa inna aliye rajioun...

Very sad state of affairs, tbh.

____
Can Mods please unban @Blacklight now?

 

[Samurai_assassin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1486436737203191812

Nothing will come from this tradegy. Pak has been losing dozens of soldiers and FC personal for the past year. Senior leadership has closed this chapter and does not have any intentions to counter these rag tag filthy nomadic gypsies.

 

[RealNapster]

This idiocy of blaming India on every terrorism related thread needs to stop

When we look at the discussions on PDF. It seems like ISI is not the lumber one agency but RAW is.

 

[TheSolution]

fencing on afghanistan border has been completed, fencing on iranian border is the need of hour...we would be having huge stakes in balochistan in upcoming years.

gawader
trade
tourism
reko dik
cpec
minerals
gas pipelines
industrial zones

i mean who on earth would invest in such place after this chaos.

Last I heard Afghanistan border fencing is still incomplete due to some villages that lie in the middle.

It's possible they may be waiting for all border fencing to be completed before launching a full-scale operation. They need to really crack down on any officials in support of these groups, especially those that teach in universities, journalists, etc.

 

[Maula Jatt]

When we look at the discussions on PDF. It seems like ISI is not the lumber one agency but RAW is.

Guy you're quoting is thread banned rn...