$10-BILLION FIGHTER DEAL HITS TECH-TRANSFER AIR POCKET

[A.P. Richelieu]

SAAB may offer more ToT than LM but you missed my main point in my previous post. Rafale helps us in maintaining commonality and uniformity among our fleets. Adding new types would only be a nightmare for us

Someone claimed here some time ago that IAF came to the conclusion that once you have 90-100 aircraft there is no more to be gained.
Having two types with 100 aircrafts each is about the same as having one type with 200 aircraft.

True,but rafale can deliver better than gripen.

Rafale has a little more range and a few more weapon stations, which needs
to have a value assigned.
It does not neccessarily mean that it will do its intended job better, in which case that value is zero.
What is clear, is that it will cost a lot more to do the job with the Rafale, than with the Gripen.
Can 1 Rafale do the job better than 2 Gripen?
The CPFH difference will together with the price difference surely finance an additional aircraft.

 

[Papa Dragon]

Someone claimed here some time ago that IAF came to the conclusion that once you have 90-100 aircraft there is no more to be gained.
Having two types with 100 aircrafts each is about the same as having one type with 200 aircraft.

There is no way we are gonna buy 200 foreign aircrafts. We simply don't have the money for such a large order. It would be the currently ordered 36 Rafales and 80 single engine fighters (F-16/Gripen) but that would put IN in a fix because they had to go with an entirely new fighter (F-18/Mig-29K/Rafale-M); or around 80 more Rafales/M's both for the IAF and IN combined and more LCAs will be added irrespective of whatever deal we go with.

 

[Storm Force]

Gripen is a very nice fighter but its too similar to Tejas even has the same engine

Rafale BRINGS far more to the table AND we know have 36 arriving regardless

It makes sense to order a MINIMUM 36 MORE and support with 120 mark 1/1a Tejas

So we END up WITH 72 rafales

And 123 Tejas

They will completely replace all MIGS in service today by 2029/2030

 

[#hydra#]

I opened a THREAD 6 MONTHS AGO that more Rafales are coming

I also opened a THREAD 3 YEARS AGO that IAF would only sign one deal out of FGFA & RAFALE

India WILL GO WITH THE RAFALE

Future IAF is built around

SU30MKI as its prime Air Supremacy Fighter hence 15 squadrons

Rafale with support from Mirage 2000-5 & Jaguar as its principle Strike otions with 12 sqds
combined

Finaly Tejas as its CAS and point defense fighers x 6 sqds

So,no fifth gen fighters and we are planning to defend our sky with a combined attack from chinese and pakistan,that too with no nuk first strike policy.

 

[Storm Force]

So,no fifth gen fighters and we are planning to defend our sky with a combined attack from chinese and pakistan,that too with no nuk first strike policy.

The is very little options

PAK FA is a money pit AND useless and simply not even upto Rafale Level in some aspects

AMCA india own fighter is not yet BORN

That leaves F35 AND that will not happen until post 2029-2030

WITH huge issues in MIGS IAF will concentrate on Tejas & Rafale for next decade THAT MUCH I CAN GURANTEE YOU know

 

[#hydra#]

Someone claimed here some time ago that IAF came to the conclusion that once you have 90-100 aircraft there is no more to be gained.
Having two types with 100 aircrafts each is about the same as having one type with 200 aircraft.


Rafale has a little more range and a few more weapon stations, which needs
to have a value assigned.
It does not neccessarily mean that it will do its intended job better, in which case that value is zero.
What is clear, is that it will cost a lot more to do the job with the Rafale, than with the Gripen.
Can 1 Rafale do the job better than 2 Gripen?
The CPFH difference will together with the price difference surely finance an additional aircraft.

Regarding range,its irelevent since each and every inch of pakistan is accessible by mki,so what we need is a very capable platform. Advantages to rafale.
Weapon station,do you want rafale to be like a bomber. Its a multi role fighter.
Rafale already proved its mettle on Libya,it went without the support from tomahawk missiles. I don't think your tiny fighter will dare to do so. Sorry it did in many in youtube. But sadly IAF wants to fight over pakistan and chinese airspace not on YouTube.
I don't think even f22 is able to do the job done by two fighters. In modern warfare nk one will go alone,it will be a group operation.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Gripen is a very nice fighter but its too similar to Tejas even has the same engine

Rafale BRINGS far more to the table AND we know have 36 arriving regardless

It makes sense to order a MINIMUM 36 MORE and support with 120 mark 1/1a Tejas

So we END up WITH 72 rafales

And 123 Tejas

They will completely replace all MIGS in service today by 2029/2030

You conveniently forget that the Tejas has the GE F-404, and Gripen E has the GE F-414.
Gripen is designed for easy maintenance, and the Tejas is not.
Gripen has state of the art electronics, and the Tejas has not.
SAAB claims it is superior to the Rafale electronics,
It has very low RCS.
It is much easier to integrate new functionality in the Gripen than in any other
contemporary aircraft, due to the App based S/W architecture.
This is the reason European Weapons like the Meteor are developed using Gripen.
Much more advanced data link.
It is a model based design, and the Tejas is not.
The pilot interface is widely regarded as the best in the industry.

The Tejas is far, far behind.
The additional range and Weapon Stations of the Rafale does not motivate
the extra cost.
What else, does the Rafale bring?

Regarding range,its irelevent since each and every inch of pakistan is accessible by mki,so what we need is a very capable platform. Advantages to rafale.
Weapon station,do you want rafale to be like a bomber. Its a multi role fighter.
Rafale already proved its mettle on Libya,it went without the support from tomahawk missiles. I don't think your tiny fighter will dare to do so. Sorry it did in many in youtube. But sadly IAF wants to fight over pakistan and chinese airspace not on YouTube.
I don't think even f22 is able to do the job done by two fighters. In modern warfare nk one will go alone,it will be a group operation.

Every one claims that Rafale is more capable, but noone can show why...
Gripen was flying over Libya as well, and did a good job.
It was restricted to reconnaissance by the Swedish Government for known reasons.
It is not our policy to kill others, if we can avoid it.

 

[#hydra#]

You conveniently forget that the Tejas has the GE F-404, and Gripen E has the GE F-414.
Gripen is designed for easy maintenance, and the Tejas is not.
Gripen has state of the art electronics, and the Tejas has not.
SAAB claims it is superior to the Rafale electronics,
It has very low RCS.
It is much easier to integrate new functionality in the Gripen than in any other
contemporary aircraft, due to the App based S/W architecture.
This is the reason European Weapons like the Meteor are developed using Gripen.
Much more advanced data link.
It is a model based design, and the Tejas is not.
The pilot interface is widely regarded as the best in the industry.

The Tejas is far, far behind.
The additional range and Weapon Stations of the Rafale does not motivate
the extra cost.
What else, does the Rafale bring?



Every one claims that Rafale is more capable, but noone can show why...
Gripen was flying over Libya as well, and did a good job.
It was restricted to reconnaissance by the Swedish Government for known reasons.
It is not our policy to kill others, if we can avoid it.

I know why you font accept this,since you demonstrated Gripen killing su35s in YouTube videos and you are expecting same publicity gimmick from French people. Rafale flew to Libya and destroyed theirs anti aircrafts capabilities and pave the way for NATO fighters to fly freely over Libya. And for your kind information Rafale did a great job in Libya,almost zero collateral damage,if sweedish didn't use airpower in anger over Libya means you are less confident about your Gripen on its accuracy.

And I don't understand your point,you are asking us to go for Gripen over our own homegrown fighter since Gripen is advanced,here you conveniently forgetting that both are of same class,same engine but your fighter is coming up with exorbitant price range wrt LCA .at the same time you are telling us to go for Gripen over Rafale too by telling the extra money spending on Rafale won't bring advantages.

 

[proud_indian]

There is no way we are gonna buy 200 foreign aircrafts. We simply don't have the money for such a large order. It would be the currently ordered 36 Rafales and 80 single engine fighters (F-16/Gripen) but that would put IN in a fix because they had to go with an entirely new fighter (F-18/Mig-29K/Rafale-M); or around 80 more Rafales/M's both for the IAF and IN combined and more LCAs will be added irrespective of whatever deal we go with.

The number will definitely pass well beyond 200, maybe 400 plus if you include Fifth gen aircrafts and nacy aircrafts as well and as far as money is concerned we are not going to pay the sum in one tranche.

 

[#hydra#]

Man according to me the exorbitant price difference between LCA and Gripen won't justify Gripen induction in IAF . But though Rafale is costly,it's avionics, engine tech,EW suite is on par with latest developments in gen5 category. So my pic will be Rafale and Tejas any day over Gripen.

 

[proud_indian]

Man according to me the exorbitant price difference between LCA and Gripen won't justify Gripen induction in IAF . But though Rafale is costly,it's avionics, engine tech,EW suite is on par with latest developments in gen5 category. So my pic will be Rafale and Tejas any day over Gripen.

this would be best combination if we can sough out the shortcomings of LCA in MK1-A avatar.

 

[Storm Force]

This is NON DEBATE

India HAS ordered 123 Tejas .......... THIS WILL NOT CHANGE @ UNIT prioce of $45 million each . total cost $7 billion for 120+ fighters

Rafale current orders of 36 fighters for $8.6 billion will be doubled. TOTAL COST over $16 billion

The GRIPEN E delivery for 120 fighters with TOT and manufacturing is over $20 billion



THERE WILL No orders FOR gripen or F16/70

THAT DECISION has ben made .......... it will be made public NEXT YEAR

 

[proud_indian]

This is NON DEBATE

India HAS ordered 123 Tejas .......... THIS WILL NOT CHANGE @ UNIT prioce of $45 million each . total cost $7 billion for 120+ fighters

THAT DECISION has ben made .......... it will be made public NEXT YEAR

123 Tejas are coming but don't think the acquisition cost would be anywhere near $45 million mark.

This is NON DEBATE

Rafale current orders of 36 fighters for $8.6 billion will be doubled. TOTAL COST over $16 billion

Again more rafales are coming but the next tranche would be a lot cheaper as we won't have to pay for the customization again

THERE WILL No orders FOR gripen or F16/70

THAT DECISION has ben made .......... it will be made public NEXT YEAR

I hope this is true but I don't think it's the case

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I know why you font accept this,since you demonstrated Gripen killing su35s in YouTube videos and you are expecting same publicity gimmick from French people. Rafale flew to Libya and destroyed theirs anti aircrafts capabilities and pave the way for NATO fighters to fly freely over Libya. And for your kind information Rafale did a great job in Libya,almost zero collateral damage,if sweedish didn't use airpower in anger over Libya means you are less confident about your Gripen on its accuracy.

And I don't understand your point,you are asking us to go for Gripen over our own homegrown fighter since Gripen is advanced,here you conveniently forgetting that both are of same class,same engine but your fighter is coming up with exorbitant price range wrt LCA .at the same time you are telling us to go for Gripen over Rafale too by telling the extra money spending on Rafale won't bring advantages.

You have obviously little knowledge about the mentality of Swedish Politicians.
That is why you draw such strange conclusions.

I am not forgetting anything. The difference between Tejas and Gripen is much wider
than the difference between Gripen and Rafale.
Gripen is superior to Rafale in certain properties, and much cheaper to operate.
Tejas is not superior to Gripen in any property, and while cheaper to buy,
is more expensive to operate.
Even Gripen C can take on F-16s, F-15s and Eurofighters and win.
How Gripen E would work vs Rafale is not really known.
Not aware of any exercises where they are pitted against each other.
What Tejas can do ???

Man according to me the exorbitant price difference between LCA and Gripen won't justify Gripen induction in IAF . But though Rafale is costly,it's avionics, engine tech,EW suite is on par with latest developments in gen5 category. So my pic will be Rafale and Tejas any day over Gripen.

And Gripen Avionics, EW suite is claimed to be superior to that of Rafale...
The Rafale stuff is 10-15 year old.
Compare a modern PC, with the PC of 2005...
That is why Dassault plans to make a major overhaul of the Rafale.
The engine tech of the Rafale and Gripen E is fairly similar.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

This is NON DEBATE

India HAS ordered 123 Tejas .......... THIS WILL NOT CHANGE @ UNIT prioce of $45 million each . total cost $7 billion for 120+ fighters

Rafale current orders of 36 fighters for $8.6 billion will be doubled. TOTAL COST over $16 billion

The GRIPEN E delivery for 120 fighters with TOT and manufacturing is over $20 billion



THERE WILL No orders FOR gripen or F16/70

THAT DECISION has ben made .......... it will be made public NEXT YEAR

You sound almost as confident as those Indians claiming that the F-16 deal is done.
Drop the Rafales, and you can easily afford the Gripen,
and 120 Gripen are better than 72 Rafales .