$10-BILLION FIGHTER DEAL HITS TECH-TRANSFER AIR POCKET

[anant_s]

Fixed that fer ya!

Can't argue there, indeed the king!

The solution is already at work to sidestep that difficulty with the kind
of investment made by the Rafale GIE. Safran fixes the Kavery and
gets a tiny slice of dividends from its use in LCA at minima for years.
Now let's say Thalès fits an RBE2 to that same LCA? The first gets a
trickle for a long time, the second makes a sale but each is being paid
back and interested in the future of the IAF/IN stables.

That's spreading the cost of "buying" a production line properly and it
shows that we should think more in production runs rather than output.
India only needs to plan for a steady workload for the concerned OEMs
and diversify products bought over time and voilà, a local production!!!

This part pulled me. A lot has been said about Indian desire for ToT from such mega deals and frankly we know what really is possible.
under such circumstances the scenario you've described is probably best we can hope for.
The idea should be to create an ecosystem that will ultimately support state run companies by means of private equity participation and involvement of local universities for R&D. This over next few decades will allow India to design its own platforms and manufacturer domestically.
Right now above setup is entirely in government control and participation of private sector is welcome step.
Here in India we have seen massive improvements taking place in Telecom, Banking, Insurance and host of sectors that were in state control and therefore I have no reason to doubt that defence sector can't replicate that.
Good day !

 

[#hydra#]

Single engine project will end. With no deal concluded.
I have known this for months

There are numerous reasons why but the main ones are

The cost will be well over 15 billion dollars and closer to 20.billion

The timescale taken to absorb technology and set up manufacturing will mean delivery of all fighters will take until 2030 to deliver 100 jets .simply far too long to replace falling nos of our air force

Both Sweden and USA want billions $$$ to share only partial technology's IE Transfer of Technology

The assessment concludes the Iaf top brass have indicated they prefer rafale as better option for fleet modernisation AND wity AMBANI RELIANCE already on board to set up ,manufacturing both Ambani family & Dassult are pushing modi to sign for more Rafales built in india

AMBANI will get his way

Modi will agree to 90 RAFALES to be lcense built in indiafor estimated deal of $20 billion

IAF will be delighted

MAKE IN INDIA WILLCONTINUE WITH 120 TEJAS as already planned

watch this space

EXPECT INDIA to induct 126 rafales eventually

AMBANI reliance will help 90 in nindia

Is lca mk2 is dead or still running?

 

[proud_indian]

Is lca mk2 is dead or still running?

you can say It's in hibernation if not dead

 

[Papa Dragon]

The best option would be to induct 2 more squadrons of Rafales and 2 sqdrns of Rafale-M's for IN's new Vikrant carrier. Inducting American systems as front line fighters would be dumb as they already rejected ToT and will also come with a lot of strings attached.

Ordering close to 72 Rafales/M's would convince Dassault to set up local production while Thales could work on Kaveri along with ARDE which could be integrated with LCA-1A/2 and develop variants of it for the AMCA

So now it's F-16, RAFALE, GRIPEN, .... so colorful, like a salad.

Do you have comprehension issues? F-16 & Gripen are pretty much a dead deal after they've only agreed to limited ToT which maybe more like assembling which is something India would never go for. More Rafales & LCA's are on the line

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

The best option would be to induct 2 more squadrons of Rafales and 2 sqdrns of Rafale-M's for IN's new Vikrant carrier. Inducting American systems as front line fighters would be dumb as they already rejected ToT and will also come with a lot of strings attached.

Ordering close to 72 Rafales/M's would convince Dassault to set up local production while Thales could work on Kaveri along with ARDE which could be integrated with LCA-1A/2 and develop variants of it for the AMCA


Do you have comprehension issues? F-16 & Gripen are pretty much a dead deal after they've only agreed to limited ToT which maybe more like assembling which is something India would never go for. More Rafales & LCA's are on the line

The US maybe is limiting the ToT, but what source do You have saying that SAAB
is limiting ToT to India.
SAAB is providing enough Technology & Training to allow Brazil to design Gripen F.
Guess You are emitting pure BS.

 

[maravan91]

The US maybe is limiting the ToT, but what source do You have saying that SAAB
is limiting ToT to India.
SAAB is providing enough Technology & Training to allow Brazil to design Gripen F.
Guess You are emitting pure BS.

We dont hav money for another su30mki like deal.

For $10 billion dollar budget we can only get maximum 50-60 f16s or gripen. No one is going to give ToT for this amount. Better spend this money in procuring LCAs

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

The same is true for advanced avionics most notable Radar. Here SAAB isn't ready for Gallium Nitrite chip technology used for building blocks of transmitter receiver modules of modern AESA radars.
Remaining technologies are more of less available with India especially the Carbon fiber composite for skin of airframe and associated software.
So even if the fighters are of 70s vintage, the said technologies of engine and radar are quite new which won't be parted by OEMs easily. Best course of action is to see which technologies can be brought off the shelf and develop indigenous technologies separately.

SAAB is one of the few companies that have a GaN based Radar in production.
Lots of the Electronics inside the Gripen E is designed using GaN.
Modern AESA Radars uses GaAs. GaN based radars are bleeding edge.

 

[Storm Force]

Is lca mk2 is dead or still running?

There is very little talk on LCA MK2 now

The project is definitely on hold.

The IAF will not commit to LCA mark 2 until they have firmly assessed mark 1/1a into their doctrine

The other issue is the notorious slow pace of DRD/HAL in development of LCA already

IAF will be persuaded to induct LCA mk1 with promise of their rafales . This was initially 36 planes

But with nos still falling in sqds and our adversarys making good progess with Thiunders and J20 the need to add more rafales as become a NECESSAITY not a nice to have

More rafales will be ordered in the next 12-24 months

PS IAF does not have any faith in the RUSSIAN PAK FA at this moment in time

IAF will not be inducting any FIFTH GENERATION FIGHTER for over a DECADE
[

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

We dont hav money for another su30mki like deal.

For $10 billion dollar budget we can only get maximum 50-60 f16s or gripen. No one is going to give ToT for this amount. Better spend this money in procuring LCAs

It is pretty clear that IAF wants more than the LCA can provide.
ToT is not an binary thing. If India wants to spend less, it will get less.
Less is not "none".

 

[Super Falcon]

It will end up as father of all orphans deal getting at the end 30 jets with 10 bill tag

 

[Papa Dragon]

The US maybe is limiting the ToT, but what source do You have saying that SAAB
is limiting ToT to India.
SAAB is providing enough Technology & Training to allow Brazil to design Gripen F.
Guess You are emitting pure BS.

Well the OP says both LM & SAAB aren't ready for a complete ToT which is understandable because no country would be willing for a complete tech transfer but I'm pretty sure it would be more of a screw and nut job. Moreover, I hope IAF & IN go with more Rafales to maintain commonality and uniformity among our fleets. Adding new aircrafts would only result in maintenance issues and logistic nightmares and IAF is desperately short of money and using those minimal resources in the procurement of an entirely new fighter with minimal ToT, training, maintenance & repair workshops etc doesn't make sense. Investing that money on LCA would pave way for AMCA as well

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Well the OP says both LM & SAAB aren't ready for a complete ToT which is understandable because no country would be willing for a complete tech transfer but I'm pretty sure it would be more of a screw and nut job. Moreover, I hope IAF & IN go with more Rafales to maintain commonality and uniformity among our fleets. Adding new aircrafts would only result in maintenance issues and logistic nightmares and IAF is desperately short of money and using those minimal resources in the procurement of an entirely new fighter with minimal ToT, training, maintenance & repair workshops etc doesn't make sense. Investing that money on LCA would pave way for AMCA as well

There is no reason that India will get less than Brazil, since the contract with Brazil was
only 36 aircraft. More aircrafts are expected, but not guaranteed.
Brazil will be able to design a new aircraft, which is quite a lot more than a screw and nut job.

 

[#hydra#]

It is pretty clear that IAF wants more than the LCA can provide.
ToT is not an binary thing. If India wants to spend less, it will get less.
Less is not "none".

True,but rafale can deliver better than gripen.

 

[Storm Force]

I opened a THREAD 6 MONTHS AGO that more Rafales are coming

I also opened a THREAD 3 YEARS AGO that IAF would only sign one deal out of FGFA & RAFALE

India WILL GO WITH THE RAFALE

Future IAF is built around

SU30MKI as its prime Air Supremacy Fighter hence 15 squadrons

Rafale with support from Mirage 2000-5 & Jaguar as its principle Strike otions with 12 sqds
combined

Finaly Tejas as its CAS and point defense fighers x 6 sqds

 

[Papa Dragon]

There is no reason that India will get less than Brazil, since the contract with Brazil was
only 36 aircraft. More aircrafts are expected, but not guaranteed.
Brazil will be able to design a new aircraft, which is quite a lot more than a screw and nut job.

SAAB may offer more ToT than LM but you missed my main point in my previous post. Rafale helps us in maintaining commonality and uniformity among our fleets. Adding new types would only be a nightmare for us