Icarus

Hello,
Offcourse i can tell you, apart from CSS, PCS. DSS has has scope in Media both print & electronic, if you have writing skills then you can do extremely well, you can join army after wards but it all depends if they have announced vacancies at that time, you can join NGO'S, ThinkTanks, and UNO as well certain organizations like Pakistan atomic energy also some times announce vacancies for defense analysts, you can also join ISI by clearing the tests, my major is actually International Relations but i have also studied DSS, it has a huge scope there is no doubt about it. but then it all depends if you have an aptitude for it so analyze your self if you think you have an innate interest in the subject then go for it, its a vast field if you will work hard you wont be dis appointed

Thanks for clearing my doubts my friend.

Thanks for your comment to me.

Perhaps what happened between the flotilla crew and the Israeli soldiers was a case of sheer mistaken intentions then if we follow what this Mr. Talat has to say. The flotilla considered armed soldiers (I am yet to see an unarmed soldier in a tense region, on duty) as on a mission to massacre the aid workers while the Israeli agencies say that the soldiers had strict orders to first negotiate terms of mutual agreement carrying weapons only in case of being attacked.

Therefore now that you raised such a key point here, I'd say that both mistook each other really bad. The guns of Israelis worried the crew while the throwing off of an Israeli soldier off the Turkish flotilla and causing him serious injury provoked Israeli soldiers to fire.

Any intrusion into sensitive areas is first dealt with pure words, as this is something uniform in military procedures worldwide. Soldiers mostly patrol armed but don't essentially mean to use them unless and until attacked. The crew could have waited for ( it is difficult to remain calm after seeing a group of armed-to-teeth soldiers land on your boat, but ignorance can be fatal as we saw).

The attack on the soldiers only cost more civilian deaths on-board the flotilla rather than intimidate the soldiers away or discourage them from any military engagement. Do you agree with me here? . Instead, neither the crew could go unharmed, nor the Israelis had a pleasant day with some near-fatal injuries of their fellow soldiers and both suffered for no apparent reason. This could have been certainly avoided by both parties.

Therefore, if you carefully read my above points, I'd say that patience on both sides could have resulted in a much more positive outcome rather than all this violence that was not beneficial for either parties. Neither the aid got delivered, nor the soldiers were relaxed also nor the crew could return safely.

And as ever, you tend to make arguments that certainly do seem to enable us to cast a suspicious eye on Israelis as well. However, from the multiple threads that I have gone through apart from numerous news reports, the crew of flotilla also were aggressive rather than accept Israeli terms to some extent and therefore inhibiting any chances of a peaceful agreement. Though news reports point out that the flotilla crew sustained severe injuries and one single death, the Israeli side argued that one of their soldiers after being thrown off the flotilla by a group of crew sustained heavy head injuries, prompting an armed response.

Since CNN, Reuters and BBC are my primary sources, I managed to even consider watching from Al Jazeera channel. But as expected, they are showing something totally anti-Israel while Reuters are showing something totally anti-flotilla.

Whom are we, supposed to support when all the news channels take sides and have a bias unless we can ourselves go and see what happened? .

For a journalist, Ms. Jana seems to be pitifully ignorant of reality. I am really astounded that in a country with so much potential, such a pitifully ignorant person becomes a journalist. It is extremely regrettable.

Thank you for the invitation friend, but as a neutral member I'd rather not participate. The thread is nothing new but a bunch of hormone-high teenagers roaring and foot-thumping to show their usual hatred of Israel. I shall not post comments on the thread because it is the same bunch of immature high school children "Jana", "Abu Basit", "Pakistani Nationalist", "Qaide-Azem" who are ranting their anti-Israel nonsense that they do on threads that are not even REMOTELY related to Israel. I have been insulted by them for no reason in the past and therefore don't want to waste my time convincing a bunch of narrow-minded and biased school children to look into the other side of the story to know which of the two sides is wrong.

While the act of Tel Aviv does deserve at least an eyeful of suspicion and criticism, I'd say that there's bound to be something on the other half as well that we have to carefully consider before pointing the blame at Israelis directly in an unbiased manner. As per the reports here's how I sum it up:

1) the flotilla was in international waters and not in Israeli territorial waters : Israel's mistake

2) the flotilla command refused to obey Israeli Navy controller's commands: flotilla mistake

3) flotilla sailors attempted assaults on Israeli forces: flotilla mistake

4) Soldiers opened lethal fire: Israel's mistake

5) flotilla sailors wounded and threw a soldier after repeatedly stabbing him with a knife, out of their ship leading to his serious injury: flotilla mistake

In short; both are equally at fault; Israeli soldiers should have waited a bit more in order for their intended attack to be legitimately in their territorial waters. However, the conflict wouldn't have happened in first place if the flotilla would have obeyed the command of the Navy controller in first place. The aid would have been transported to the Palestinians, the soldiers won't have stormed the flotilla, there would have been no violence and everything could have been normal.


As of all the members hurling stones on the Americans, Indians, Israelis and almost every non-Pakistani member on the forum apart from Turkish or Chinese is extremely stupid and not worthy of my time. It is also extremely despicable the way people here howl for wars and think it is a walk in the park. Irrespective of nationality, they don't understand what a full scale war means. Switzerland for example hasn't seen any major war in more than 60 years. But when we did have our share of wars, they were horrifying. These immature kids pretending to be adults need to realize that wars aren't a child's game to just press a button and let the missiles and guns do the talking.

In order to cure this obsession with war, most of these members must enroll as conscripts at least in their respective countries' armies to at least feel what it means to be a soldier.

I'd really appreciate if you comment though because you are one of the very few sensible and mature members who can debate this topic with a sense of professionalism that is required in an international forum.

Don't be upset, friend. The world is going through a massively transitional phase. Every country has suffered horrors at some stage of life. Terrorism is a new form of warfare that has gone out of control since the days CIA removed its shadows from Afghanistan.

Instead of getting over, this then-excellent-strategy has turned into a tragedy for entire Asia and now the entire world. The only way to stop terrorism is through joint international confidence building measures and united action against these wretches.

Thank you for the heads up, dear friend. Alas! the evil deeds of these men got them in the end. Supporting militancy again any human being is wrong that too for ulterior motives. Most of these militant supporters were earlier considered to be ill-educated or from poor background but what's shocking is that today, many of these supporters come from well-to-do and even affluent families that one would never suspect them to be from.

The recent arrest of the American-Pakistani militant alleged for the bomb scare at New York's Time Square is an example. The man was well educated, belonged to a respectable background, had a happy family with wife and children; then why did he pick this path up and ruin the lives of his soulmate and his children. Didn't he once think how many children and women like his family would he be killing at the Times Square?

You see, militancy especially when religiously fundamentalist in nature, becomes like a disease; it can transmit to others in the form of all the end result of a terrorists action and kill them as well as it starts killing a person from within. I feel sorry for the man's family IF they were no knowing about his terrorist background.

It was nice to hear from you.

AoA,

Hope you doing good. Thanks for giving the opportunity to be in your friend's list, hope to talk to you and see you around.

Regards

I understand your statements, friend. It is quite unfortunate that people see even neutral countries' citizens as threats. This is a pure case of paranoia which has to be cured. It is understandable that there is an unstable and very unpleasant situation in your country currently but the people have to understand that pinning problems on other countries will not finish them.

This is not just my experience, but also experiences of British, Australian, Israeli, American and other international members as well. That is why I said that either this forum is filled with youngsters and teenagers who have little ability to be practical and therefore only released furious and immature comments based on certain wrong perceptions. The amusing factor is that many Pakistanis like you are also discriminated by these people as you pointed out in your reply. Another even more funny point seen here is that the administrators and moderators encourage this, while pointing similar immature gasbags from foreign members as trash comments and are deleted.

This is not very encouraging and spells disaster for the international membership. As I have observed, many members from international community are members in other defense forums as well representing Europe, United States and other countries where nothing of this sort happens against non-European or non-American members.

I just hope that people here understand the situation and as you said, stop blaming outsiders for their condition and debate in a more appreciable and mature manner.

One thing that is extremely annoying on this forum is that every single defense, non-defense etc topic is somehow related to religion. This shows the presence of fundamentalist elements in the forum and that it cannot last long as a competition to other forums if this continues. Religion is a personal matter behind closed doors of a person's house and people have to understand that.

Despite the presence of bright and open-minded members like you here, I am sad to say that very few are of your personality here and most represent the extremist kind, therefore making debates impossible without dragging in religion. Wish there are more practical people like you, debating would be fun, civilized, mature and professional.

Well culture is another aspect that has to be considered here, but when it comes to international politics, even culture has to take a backseat. I appreciate you welcoming me to your country and I do hope to travel there sometime soon. However, some of my colleagues have traveled and while they appreciate the welcome given to them, they say that due to the nature of their work, they were under threat from radicals over there.

Now coming back to cold war politics, even today after 2 decades of its demise, it does play a large role in your part of the world. Your old but trouble relationship with the United States and your rival's relationship with Kremlin.

I am not talking about the denigration of your Prophet when I talk about hatred against Europeans. Recently, an American cartoonist has depicted Ramayana in a despicable form which is similar to what happened to you people via Denmark. This is something I wholly agree with you and agree with you that religion should not be insulted regardless of what that community in question follows.

However, the hatred here is very less associated with Denmark alone. I am talking about Europe as a whole. The point is most Pakistani members here misunderstand us rather than us misunderstanding them.

In Europe we don't call your entire country the terrorist. Infact, we feel sorry for your losses and empathize with you. The point where most of us want to emphasize on is your uncontrolled regions bordering Afghanistan. This region since it is federally managed by your government, becomes your responsibility. And it is this very responsibility that makes people or rather let me clarify it as ordinary citizens of other country blame your government as a whole.

We Europeans certainly don't hate your country for what is not done by you. Terrorism is evil and has to be uprooted because this evil is a disturbance to the social order and fabric of any country. You have my full sympathy.

There is no need to apologize, friend. As I told you, most managers of this forum from administrators to senior members except 2 or 3 are either teenagers living off in Western countries' comforts, or are journalists for extremist journals. You can infact see how they relate the religion tag with even the latest Moscow blasts, terming Russians as the villains. This mentality has to change and it is only possible if Moderators start accepting facts with the same maturity that you have. Otherwise, small and childish talks only tarnish the image of this otherwise prestigious forum. Perhaps, Moderators would take you more seriously since you are a fellow countryman of theirs.

I am pleased to hear and agree that all religions teach same thing: peace and proper living in one's own way depending on the region. I see you have taken serious interest in Hinduism. Despite being a Westerner, I would advise you not to consider reading these scriptures with European non-Hindu authors as most don't understand the core meaning and put their own assumptions, therefore changing the actual meaning. I would recommend you to read Dr. Koenraad Elst's books on Hinduism if you are interested in mild theology.

Coming back to the topic, I am pleased to see that you have the maturity to accept reality and not interpret it blinded by religious zeal. For this, Thank you again.

Thank you for understanding the broader picture. There are very few of you who would understand this situation in its actual sense. Many times when I have tried to convey this here wit as much politeness as I can muster, I have been branded a fanatic, my religion has been abused and people even call me an Indian in disguise. You are infact the first mature Pakistani member here with whom I have opened a correspondence.

The quality of discussions here in forums gets lesser not because of nationalities but because teenagers and ignorant fundamentalists own and run the forum, making it difficult for arguments to come by. If more people like you control this forum, it will be better for foreign members as well as even Pakistani members who will began to think practically rather than emotionally and therefore strive forward to improve their country. After all that is what the world at large wants; to reduce instability in your region.

As you saw it yourself, we welcome our guests and treat them with respect. The UK incident that you say is more or less a personal thing since the whites here don't really mind others' presence and usually aren't so hostile except a few neo-nazis. Though I thank God that none of that nonsense is present here in Switzerland.

I hope that more Pakistanis understand what you have so beautifully put. Acknowledgement of mistakes is the first step to learning, improving and becoming better.

The wrong thing that happened during Soviet occupation was, instead of inspiring young Afghans to fight for their country as Afghan nationals irrespective of religion, the fundamentalists encouraged giving it a religious colour which though partially got the sympathies of the Muslim world, but destroyed Afghanistan and sunk Pakistan's economy. The results could have been worse had USSR not aimed to annex Afghanistan and instead intended to destroy it root and branch, which they could have easily done so with their ballistic missiles.

Conservatism is a right of every human being to some extent but fundamentalism gets one nowhere. Very few people acknowledge this and this is perhaps the unfortunate cause of instability and chaos in your region. I hope everything slowly improves.

Congrats on the good news.. Now it is good to see that Pakistani people like liberal moderate and progressive attitude much better than the fanatics. I do hope that Pakistan emerges ad the Turkey of Asia...culturally conservative but socially modern and progressive.

Hello friend nice to hear from you. This is a misconception raised by fanatics and fundamentalists that Europe doesn't treat Muslims with respect. We do treat everyone whoever doesn't break laws with respect, regardless of religion. Most of what you people receive is through the mouths of extremists who think that wherever your religious law is not allowed is a racist country and should be attacked.

Come here and see for yourself. Even most Muslims live freely and are good Swiss citizens. A significant lot don't mind the referendum from being passed. It is only propaganda and nonsense spread by extremists who are obsessed with "spreading the religion" all across our country. Europe's second largest minority are Muslims. Only those who are involved in extremism and attempts of crude proselytizing, are not respected here, as they would be in any non-Islamic country.

If we didn't treat them with respect or even want them, how would this be possible? Please think. The reason why we don't want certain aspects of your faith is because our country is not Islamic by origin and we want to promote Swiss culture as the national norm rather than Arab culture that most of Islamic countries want to follow. Perhaps this is what is fanned by extremists and fundamentalists in your media and show us in negative light.

Most Europe has freedom of religion practice but there is a limitation that keeps all religions equal. I am also of a minority faith in Switzerland, but as a minority I can proudly say that my country has never disrespected me. The same is with Muslims. It is only extremists we don't like as neither do you.

As I explained certain of your fellow Pakistani friends, that every country has certain restrictive laws which have to be followed even if they are a little discriminative. Everyone cannot be made happy at the same time. For instance, we also have temple constructions but there are certain restrictions on them, minor but still there. Yet we don't raise hell for all that and respect the national law. This is not done by these extremists who live in our land, eat our soil, take our benefits but don't respect our national laws. Now you tell me, how should we deal with them?

Isn't this the same extremism your soldiers are fighting against?