''Zionists want to create a Shia, Sunni war in Pakistan"

[muse]

muse, question here not about who is doing what but what we are doing and how to control. Blaming others is familiar job in our society to hide own incompetency.

Hello DV: As far as I can tell I don't think we're doing anything about it and I think it is the conclusion of certainly the politicians that it's best to ignore this sectarian war -- Yes, you are quite right, in my opinion, that we are are incompetent, however, don't let that allow you to forget : How is it, that sectarian wars start where ever the Wahabi show up, and who funds this ??

Now that you have identified the problem. What should be the solution to this increasing wahabi ideology? How do you(we) stop this? Practically ofcourse!

Contrarian:

What we should be doing : !. Condemn sectarianism, 2, Condemn sectarianism 3. Condemn sectarianism 4. Through the media, in the public explain that this Wahabi Takfiri behavior is a direct result of their sectarianism, that it is destroying the notion of Ummah, of Muslims and of Islam itself -- That at the core of this Wahabi ideology is a political consideration.


If you look at some of the responses of those Pakistanis who are, clearly, motivated by this Wahabi ideology, you will note that they don't seem to understand that they are supporting is the tearing apart of Islam from within it - and worse still, they deny that there is pluralism within Islam and Muslims and will deny it with the use of violence - Have you noticed how they just don't seem to get it? That's because to them, only their sect has it right and all others must be "cleansed" (read made dead) and that, that is Islam.

I think the more people, and it does not matter whether you are Pakistani, Indian, Iranian Syrian, Russian, Caucasian, Chinese, American or European or African, understand and join in registering their objection to this ideology and behavior, the greater the chance that we can allow for those Muslims who are held captive in the polities controlled by the Wahabi Princes, to have hope that the are not abandoned, and that one day they will be free

First things firs : Identify and call evil by what it is!

 

[jayron]

It is a war only if both sides are fighting. Here. I just deepen side attacking and the other being helpless. If the zip mists arm and train the Shias to strike back, then there will be war and it could benefit outsiders.

 

[haviZsultan]

Contrarian:

What we should be doing : !. Condemn sectarianism, 2, Condemn sectarianism 3. Condemn sectarianism

But the question arises... who do we condemn? Are we disengaged from the issue ourselves or do we partly blame the Shias/Sunnis?

The thing I would like to add to this is not just condemn it but also learn to look at the situation through another communities eyes. We are so attached to our sects and ethnic identities that we do not feel compassion for each other nor do we see the situation from the others eyes. It is a fundamental flaw in our thinking.

We can condemn it but usually it appears clear which side we belong to when we criticize it. I am a Sunni and have noticed several times when Sunnis criticize they clearly blame both sides. If you look at the Quetta killings though you will find the truth. 80% of the victims are Shias and Shias are only responding and that also by attacking the terrorist organizations like Jhangvi and Sipah e sahaba exclusively. They do not kill random people on the street. 758 people in the last 5 years in Quetta were shias killed because of their faith!

It is necessary to sympathize, look at things with their eyes-something we fail to do and I see this as a major part of the issue which was the reason we lost the east in 71 and it terrifies me sending a shiver down my spine that jolts me. I have a harrowing, depressing tale of a Hazara (Shia) widow in Quetta who a journalist friend talked to and mistakenly said the wrong thing. Sympathizing is the only way.

People probably think I am a crazy guy with such heavy links to Lucknowi people, refusal to adopt muhajir identity and see my efforts to adopt Pashtun identity (even though I have only minimal as well as unproven links) as massive wannabe-ness. But there is a way to win respect and look with another communities eyes. I choose to do that than fall at the gates of sectarianism and ethnicity myself.

We must look at conflicts in Pakistan through another communities eyes. We cannot tell a weak or oppressed widow it is the same for all of us.

 

[IamINDIA]

it cant be helped if you want to blame all of your problems and shortcomings on somebody else just to make yourself feel better.

 

[muse]

HaviZ

First the "WHAT" -- Sectarianism - Why? what does it mean? Where does it situate us?

Sectarianism is the idea we must first identity as vile, unacceptable, as un-Muslim - Because sectarianism is the denial of pluralism within Islam and among Muslims - Because acceptance of Pluralism within Islam and among Muslims is the foundation of the notion of "tolerance" in society, this makes clear that we are willing to accept all sects and all understandings of Islam and the meaning of being Muslims, so long as it does not involve the use of violence to promote the views of a particular sect.

But wait, now that we do have the situation that one sect, the Wahabi, have amassed large sums of money ad use their ideology to create armed militants to attack and to destroy the notion of pluralism and tolerance in society - what then ? - again, first thing was to identify sectarianism as an unacceptable idea, the second step is to publicly identify and condemn those individuals in leadership circles within the sect that are affiliated with the promotion of sectarianism, this has to be done either after or simultaneously with legislation that offers society a legal mechanism to deal with the promotion of sectarianism - But wait, some will argue, we already have hate speech laws and the govt refuses to apply them - it must be pointed out that govt does not enforce these laws because it has concluded that sectarianism is a notion that society or majorities in society are not prepared to condemn or act against.

Is it uphill ? All the way, Will it be full of pit falls? absolutely -- But your choices are, as they always are, to suffer (sling and arrows...) OR by Opposing end them.

 

[KRAIT]

@muse Sir what's your views about Ahmediyas ? Shouldn't they be accepted as Muslims ?

 

[muse]

@muse Sir what's your views about Ahmediyas ? Shouldn't they be accepted as Muslims ?

Sir, Pluralism in Islam i a reality, Pluralism within Muslims is a reality -- The declaration of the Ahmadi through a political act, is yet another example of sectarianism - it is a vile , unacceptable, act -- Some who have posted on this thread have argued that Pakistan should look within, to identify the roots of the present sectarianism and they are absolutely correct that Pakistan are not just "victim", that they are as much oppressor.

 

[KRAIT]

Sir, Pluralism in Islam i a reality, Pluralism within Muslims is a reality -- The declaration of the Ahmadi through a political act, is yet another example of sectarianism - it is a vile , unacceptable, act -- Some who have posted on this thread have argued that Pakistan should look within, to identify the roots of the present sectarianism and they are absolutely correct that Pakistan are not just "victim", that they are as much oppressor.

But people like you and @LoveIcon are hope for Islam. I wish you all succeed.

 

[muse]

But people like you and @LoveIcon are hope for Islam. I wish you all succeed.

Actually it's the people who we may influence and the people that they may influence -- think of "tipping point" idea in advertising -- and respect the other side, they have seemingly unlimited funds, they control the press and a good deal of the media and they have absolutely no compulsion to restrict their use of violence -- violence works.

Please do some research on what it took to install the Wahabi in Arabia, and you will understand - most people, 99.9 % think that the Wahabi were simply accepted, do the research, become aware of the number "jihad" it took and how Islam in Arabia, that was remarkably plural, was made monolithic - Giles kepel is a source you may wish to start with

 

[somebozo]

As if the Arabs and Muslims are not good at creating it already.
Appropriate title would be:

Zionist take pop-corns and watch Shia -Sunni war!

 

[Indus Pakistan]

*
How can Zionist "create a Shia, Sunni war in Pakistan"?
Only we the people of Pakistan can do that.
It is time we stopped this childish habit of blaming everything on external forces.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

It take both hands to clap. enough said.

 

[Solomon2]

*
How can Zionist "create a Shia, Sunni war in Pakistan"?
Only we the people of Pakistan can do that.
It is time we stopped this childish habit of blaming everything on external forces.

But, but, but, if you stop believing a Zionist like me has magic powers I will crumble into nothing!

 

[Esc8781]

Dumb question, but who are the Zionists? The free masons?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

But, but, but, if you stop believing a Zionist like me has magic powers I will crumble into nothing!

Fear not ..... there is no danger of your magic powers crumbling anytime soon !
There are too many fools in this world and sadly Pakistan has more than it's share !!