Zhuhai "Airshow China 2016"

[j20blackdragon]

Airshow China 2016: Ukraine's Motor Sich to begin licensed production in China
Reuben F Johnson, Zhuhai - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
07 November 2016

Ukrainian aero-engine maker Motor Sich is to begin the licensed manufacture of several of its products in China, based on an agreement the company signed this year with Chinese industry to form the Beijing Skyrizon Aviation Industry Investment Co Ltd, it emerged at Airshow China 2016.

The joint venture will produce a series of engines originally designed by the Ivchenko Design Bureau and produced by Motor Sich; the entities are co-located in the southern Ukrainian city of Zaparozhye.

The outline of the agreement calls for several classes of engines to be assembled at a new plant in Chongching, Sichuan Province, including the D-136, MS-500V and TV3-117VMA-SBM1V turboshaft helicopter engines; the AI-450S general aviation aircraft engine; the D436-148FM and D-18T high-bypass turbofan engines; the D-27 counter-rotating, dual-propeller turboprop engine that was originally designed for the Antonov An-70 programme; and the AI-222 series of military jet engines.

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Airshow China 2016: Ukraine's Motor Sich to begin licensed production in China | IHS Jane's 360

D-18T is the An-225 engine!

 

[Pepsi Cola]

honestly, with all the new commercial jet engines China is importing, can't they reverse engineer those?

 

[dingyibvs]

honestly, with all the new commercial jet engines China is importing, can't they reverse engineer those?

How does one go about reverse engineering, for example, an alloy?

 

[echo 1]

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I absolutely love this vehicle. Its big enough to take care of so many needs. One can have a mortor vehicle, scout, NBC, tactical medivac, short-medium SAM and so many others. Not to mention all the different types of turrets that can be used on it. Simply awesome

 

[Nilgiri]

How does one go about reverse engineering, for example, an alloy?

Mass spectrometer for an alloy.

Problem lies with how to make specific objects regarding those alloys at the tolerances and QC needed.

 

[dingyibvs]

Mass spectrometer for an alloy.

Problem lies with how to make specific objects regarding those alloys at the tolerances and QC needed.

Mass spec lets you know the composition of an alloy, it does not allow you to make it. You know what a pencil is made of, if you had no access to open source information, would you know how to go about making one?

 

[Nilgiri]

Mass spec lets you know the composition of an alloy, it does not allow you to make it.

It depends. You don't simply go by mass spectrometry, but use many other techniques....and some parts its enough, some its nowhere close.

Example: all the Russians needed in the late 40s and early 50s when they were still on good terms with the West (before Korean war really started) was metal filings they picked up with special shoes they got their agents to wear while touring the rolls royce factory in the UK.

You know what a pencil is made of, if you had no access to open source information, would you know how to go about making one?

You could guess fairly easily looking at the structure for a pencil or other low end things.

The issue with jet engine parts are not really the alloys in question but manufacturing methods for the tolerances and QC/QA. Like how do you get the top end thermal barrier coatings to adhere with good quality etc etc.

I already have been to China a few times to our companies blisk facility in Chengdu. If China wanted to reverse engineer that, it wouldn't be too difficult to get around 99% there with sigma six assurance....but it made more sense just to get the investment anyway given all the other RnD you get for further development.

However reverse engineering hot turbine (both HP and LP spool) is near impossible given the production methods involved and the known RnD iterations and processes that were involved. My company knows this, thats why they without any fear let China import these parts as much as they want....and any country really. Its also where the significant difference in engine performance stats arises between the West and Russia.

 

[grey boy 2]

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

To all Sino-Pak Friends,

What is the most important development of this show?

What conclusions can we draw from this year?

Looking forward to your insights and analysis.

Regards,

SPF

 

[Ultima Thule]

Star-1(1:5 model)

is this H-20?

 

[IblinI]

is this H-20?

No,its a drone.

 

[WarFariX]

is this H-20?

on the righy of pic , its clearly written UAV

 

[WarFariX]

To all Sino-Pak Friends,

What is the most important development of this show?

What conclusions can we draw from this year?

Looking forward to your insights and analysis.

Regards,

SPF

○China has advanced in most field of military tech development.
○ China alone can power all needs of Pakistan when imposed sanctions.
○ China now has the ability to multiply its arms rapidly just like Germany did
○ and many more

 

[Penguin]

○China has advanced in most field of military tech development.
○ China alone can power all needs of Pakistan when imposed sanctions.
○ China now has the ability to multiply its arms rapidly just like hitler did
○and many more

Please search China and Replace Russia. Likewise, Hitler and Stalin.

 

[DJ_Viper]

How does one go about reverse engineering, for example, an alloy?

Sir, everyone can make an engine. The engine from an engineering principles aren't different whether you take an example of a vehicle's engine as a baseline. However, what is almost impossible to master (for about 95% of the nations on the planet) is high thrust engines with respect to their heat combustion and metallurgy with high MTBF. The advance engines use Titanium blades (with very complex metallurgy involved to survive the heat, air-pressure and produce durable products). From my little study, the Chinese have various engine programs in place. They are having issues with the metallurgy and high by-passing aspects of these engines. If I was in the Chinese engine manufacturing, I would've actually paid some Western company to do a JV even on commercial engines and then setup my own shop.

Another thing where the world is behind is the process engineering (the Japanese were ahead, way ahead, for it). The US has mastered it and GE now builds almost all of their products 99.9% defect free (Six Sigma). So the Chinese need to setup engineering and related processes (metallurgy in engine manufacturing) that's compliant with Six Sigma. That would produce a product with a much higher MTBF that is required for military applications. Thanks