Zhuhai Air Show 2014 - Updates & Discussions

[Deino]

Typical indian style. Using a protoype and compare to a combat ready operational product and claim equality.

To make it even worse, the Skat is not even a prototype but only a mock-up.

 

[SQ8]

please, dont make jokes, Chinese AESA has nothing to do with Russia, as they cant even manufacture 2nd gen AESA T/R modular, they been stucked with PESA
and Chinese AESA is already at 3rd gen stage, and there is no plan to mount AESA on JF-17 as far as I know, its not because our AESA is not 'mature' than the western system (which is quite opposite), it is because of RD-93 couldnt power a AESA with decent amount of T/R modular

Considering that the director projects of JF-17 thinks otherwise.. I will disregard your post.

 

[SQ8]

You cant compare what's offer to PAF compare to what PLAAF going to have. For example, does PAF offer J-20? No , they are offer the export J-31.

And regarding radar, I am 100% sure. PAF will get Chinese AESA. Have you all eat enough humble regarding RC-400 Thales radar when compete with KJL-7 radar? Trying to find another system to compete is just trying to bring down prices with the seller. End of the day, it will still be a Chinese radar.

Chinese operation AESA AWACS fleet is enough to prove our avionics superiority compare to Russia.

Does the PAF need the J-20? That is the question you should ask yourself.
The PAF was offered the J-10B with MORE than what the PLAAF was going to get, but it was decided not to get it because the JF-17 provided most of what was coming anyway. Please do not delude yourself that the KLJ-7 was the first choice, it was only after the RC-400 was being pushed through that the performance of KLJ-7 was improved to match that of the RC-400.

Before offering others the humble dumpling, eat it yourself.

 

[Beast]

Does the PAF need the J-20? That is the question you should ask yourself.
The PAF was offered the J-10B with MORE than what the PLAAF was going to get, but it was decided not to get it because the JF-17 provided most of what was coming anyway. Please do not delude yourself that the KLJ-7 was the first choice, it was only after the RC-400 was being pushed through that the performance of KLJ-7 was improved to match that of the RC-400.

Before offering others the humble dumpling, eat it yourself.

PAF was offer becos PLAAF is going to get J-20. That debukes your first sentence. Are you trying to imply J-20 is inferior to J-31? PAF simply could not get their hands on J-20 not becos PAF do not needs it. J-20 was never offer for export.
Regarding the KLJ-7 radar, I am never delusion. You mention a better radar was offer which implies China can simply match whatever European counterpart could throw at? At finally, the fact KLJ-7 is the radar install on JF-17. This is a fact and it will continue in block 2 or further block.

 

[Syed Hussain]

No, Russia never 10 years ahead of China in aircraft. China makes better radar ,better aircraft design and airframe. Russian makes better engine in turboprop. In fact ,we are level. The only one ahead of China is US.

Give me a break. The J-20 has already made the transition from the prototype to the pre-production stage.
View attachment 154290While the PAK FA is on fire.
View attachment 154291

The J-10B with AESA is already in production and is about to enter service.
View attachment 154292

Can you show me a single in production Russian aircraft with AESA? Don't say MiG-35 because that's not in production.

Lastly, name a single Russia UAV comparable to either one of these.
View attachment 154294

View attachment 154296
In reality, Russia is only ahead in the areas developed by the Soviet Union. Russia itself has done very little over the past 24 years.

As for the Su-35 deal, I'll believe it when I see it. Show me a picture of an actual Su-35 being delivered to the PLAAF and I'll believe it, but not before then.

Many things should be kept in mind. China is pouring in billions$ in every part of it's defense industry & the "unofficial" budget is greater than the official one, while Russia is short of funds even for PAK FA & is after India to share in. China never hesitates to take foreign help in technology & copying it while Russia has a kind of ego problem(more than necessary) & do not do the so. J-10(IA-Lavi) & J-31(F-35/22) are vivid examples along with the FC-1 & many of the UAV's. & in the matter of WZ-10 designed by "Kamove" you can't even deny.
Pakistan also provided China with the privileges to "have a look" at many western technologies for example F-16's, Tomahawk Cruise Missiles, PW F129 "EEP" engine, Sniper XR Pods, AIM-120c AMRAAM, AIM-9 Sidewinder, & the list can go on & on.
J-20 is not in production neither there is any state confirmation on any AESA inducted by any Chinese production air crafts, only testing news are given. Russian "Zhuk AE-FGA 35" which is first AESA by Russia is comparable to US AESA's & is ready to go into production but funding is the problem & Byelka(Radar) is being tested on PAK FA along with the L-band AESA's on the flaps.
Let's not talk about the engines.
Still keep in mind...no offense...so do not be rash in your replies which I am sensing.
Oscar

 

[j20blackdragon]

Also I don't want people to misconstrue my posts as anti-Russian. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am very much pro-Russia especially after the large gas deals and currency swap between China and Russia. I am only anti-purchasing an aircraft that we don't need.

Let me throw out four random examples of very impressive Russian/Soviet aircraft.

Tupolev Tu-160 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Antonov An-124 Ruslan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Antonov An-225 Mriya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mil Mi-26 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would LOVE to see China reach this level in the aerospace industry someday.

 

[SQ8]

PAF was offer becos PLAAF is going to get J-20. That debukes your first sentence. Are you trying to imply J-20 is inferior to J-31? PAF simply could not get their hands on J-20 not becos PAF do not needs it. J-20 was never offer for export.
Regarding the KLJ-7 radar, I am never delusion. You mention a better radar was offer which implies China can simply match whatever European counterpart could throw at? At finally, the fact KLJ-7 is the radar install on JF-17. This is a fact and it will continue in block 2 or further block.

Not really. How was the J-20 related to the J-10B? Those are two levels of performance that the PLAAF itself has set. By your flawed logic the PLAAF should only buy J-20s. The J-20's performance and size level are simply not what the PAF wants, otherwise the J-20 has been seen and looked at by the PAF before you even heard of it. The J-11 was also on offer to the PAF back in the late 90s.. the PAF simply did not want it because it does not match its requirements.

The KJL-7 did not have the performance that the PAF wanted when the RC-400 was offered, then the performance was improved to match it.. which means an inferior product needed the incentive of competition to improve it. The same improvement went into KJL-10 units active in J-10s with the PLAAF. The PLAAF benefits a lot from the PAF's input in ideas and technology.

 

[Syed Hussain]

Aah! just got fb status update from from Defence.pk... "Russian Defence Minister
Sergey Shoigu is visiting Islamabad. This is another sign that Pakistan is re adjusting and balancing its geopolitical position."

 

[Syed Hussain]

Not really. How was the J-20 related to the J-10B? Those are two levels of performance that the PLAAF itself has set. By your flawed logic the PLAAF should only buy J-20s. The J-20's performance and size level are simply not what the PAF wants, otherwise the J-20 has been seen and looked at by the PAF before you even heard of it. The J-11 was also on offer to the PAF back in the late 90s.. the PAF simply did not want it because it does not match its requirements.

The KJL-7 did not have the performance that the PAF wanted when the RC-400 was offered, then the performance was improved to match it.. which means an inferior product needed the incentive of competition to improve it. The same improvement went into KJL-10 units active in J-10s with the PLAAF. The PLAAF benefits a lot from the PAF's input in ideas and technology.

Someone should ask about why China is taking PAF Pilots on "deputation", where they are flying Chinese fighter jets & even training Chinese pilots...a million dollar question to be answered.

 

[twocents]

With no offense(for We consider China as an all weather ally) but Russia's aircraft technology is still at least 10 years ahead of that of China. Mocking SU-35 is not a good idea at all. Just a "not good looking" air frame quality is not a judging point. It's superior than any other fighter jet currently in service with any country except F-22.

Fans will be fans. As far as I can tell, Chinese aviation experts still hold Russian aviation in high regard. China has made a lot progress in recent years but there is still a long way to go.

 

[Penguin]

Is that a mock-up or an actual flying prototype?

A 1:1 model.

The development of Skat was discontinued. However, on 3 June 2013, MiG signed a research and development contract to build a UCAV based on the Skat design.

Mikoyan Skat - Aircraft Wiki
RAC MiG to design Skat-based unmanned combat air vehicle - 6/3/2013 - Flight Global

 

[Penguin]

Typical indian style. Using a protoype and compare to a combat ready operational product and claim equality.

Except, I'm not Indian > go f.....igure yourself.

 

[Bratva]

please, dont make jokes, Chinese AESA has nothing to do with Russia, as they cant even manufacture 2nd gen AESA T/R modular, they been stucked with PESA
and Chinese AESA is already at 3rd gen stage, and there is no plan to mount AESA on JF-17 as far as I know, its not because our AESA is not 'mature' than the western system (which is quite opposite), it is because of RD-93 couldnt power a AESA with decent amount of T/R modular

Who says that? or the proof of it ?

 

[siegecrossbow]

Who says that? or the proof of it ?

I heard the same thing said about AL-31FN on J-10B. Probably just forum speculation.

Back to topic. Here is a photo of the Chinese DIRCM platform featured at Zhuhai.

国产光盾激光器:瞬间让光学吊舱和导弹变成瞎子-航天二炮及新概念武器-超级大本营军事论坛-最具影响力军事论坛 -

 

[Akasa]

Not really. How was the J-20 related to the J-10B? Those are two levels of performance that the PLAAF itself has set. By your flawed logic the PLAAF should only buy J-20s. The J-20's performance and size level are simply not what the PAF wants, otherwise the J-20 has been seen and looked at by the PAF before you even heard of it. The J-11 was also on offer to the PAF back in the late 90s.. the PAF simply did not want it because it does not match its requirements.

The KJL-7 did not have the performance that the PAF wanted when the RC-400 was offered, then the performance was improved to match it.. which means an inferior product needed the incentive of competition to improve it. The same improvement went into KJL-10 units active in J-10s with the PLAAF. The PLAAF benefits a lot from the PAF's input in ideas and technology.

Actually, you are just a bit off. The J-10 units use the Type 1473G radar, not the KLJ-10, which is only exclusive for the JH-7A aircraft.