Zakir Naik's Peace TV fined £300,000 for hate speeches as it pulls out of the UK

[Shantanu_Left]

I edited my previous post...there's a third part to it...in case u missed it.

Yes I saw that. But it is impossible to separate an observer from what is being observed. So, I am afraid you cannot discount personal views, interpretations, and biases from any field of research. It doesn't just apply to your Holy Book but also the Bible.

Like it or not, the same passage of Qu'ran can be interpreted by people differently. So the observer effect exists.

For example you live in the USA so you might be aware that some bigoted Islamophobic Americans use the following Quran verse to demonize Muslims.

Quran 2:191 - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter... and fight them until fitnah is no more, and religion is for Allah."

But a closer scrutiny of the passage reveals, the context was more in relation to treaty violations of Qurayshi-affiliated Banu Bakr tribe.

So having an OBSERVER is important.

I agree with your clear definitions of what constitutes SHIRK according to Islam. But please don't think that it will not be interpreted by others in ways that suit them. That's human folly, perhaps. But not everyone is going to exactly agree with you (and I'm just talking about Muslims).

That said I see nothing wrong with your beliefs. They are sacred to you, and I respect them.

Scratch a Hindu liberal and a Sanghi comes out...

Scratch AfrazulMandal, and an INGRATE comes out.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Yes I saw that. But it is impossible to separate an observer from what is being observed. So, I am afraid you cannot discount personal views, interpretations, and biases from any field of research. It doesn't just apply to your Holy Book but also the Bible.

Like it or not, the same passage of Qu'ran can be interpreted by people differently. So the observer effect exists.

For example you live in the USA so you might be aware that some bigoted Islamophobic Americans use the following Quran verse to demonize Muslims.

Quran 2:191 - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter... and fight them until fitnah is no more, and religion is for Allah."

But a closer scrutiny of the passage reveals, the context was more in relation to treaty violations of Qurayshi-affiliated Banu Bakr tribe.

So having an OBSERVER is important.

I agree with your clear definitions of what constitutes SHIRK according to Islam. But please don't think that it will not be interpreted by others in ways that suit them. That's human folly, perhaps. But not everyone is going to exactly agree with you (and I'm just talking about Muslims).

That said I see nothing wrong with your beliefs. They are sacred to you, and I respect them.

Personal views can weigh in on things that are in a grey area. Oneness of God and shirk(as far as Islam is concerned) are not in the grey area...it is made crystal clear from day 1.

As for this ayat u r quoting...yes many here would use it as an example to show Islam in bad light. However does that make them right? No it doesn't...clearly the ppl who would use that would be the ones who have been misled by the media(showing Islam in a bad light) and the likes of ISIS(committing horrible crimes with the label of Islam).

If these ppl were to truly study Islam then they would come to know that the Quran(the order in which it is today) didn't come in that order. The order of verses in which it is written was later decided by the Prophet Muhammad(PBUH). So for example a verse would be revealed to him...and he would recite it to his companions...and instruct them to write it before or after another verse. Each of these verses had a background and circumstances associated with it(as u said a context). So it is important to take that context into account(as Islamic scholars do)
...like I said the only way to be objective is for everyone to follow it as is...without inserting ur personal views.

So if as in ur example...those ppl misquote that verse and draw a different meaning...they are indirectly and unknowingly inserting their own preconceived notions into the subject.

As for others not agreeing with me and doing their own thing(coming to their own conclusions)...like I said before...it doesn't bother me one bit. I'm not here to make others follow what I say. I was merely stating that objectively, committing shirk by definition goes against Islam. If ppl wish to make it okay subjectively in their heads for their satisfaction...well that's on them...they will be answerable for that.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Personal views can weigh in on things that are in a grey area. Oneness of God and shirk(as far as Islam is concerned) are not in the grey area...it is made crystal clear from day 1.

As for this ayat u r quoting...yes many here would use it as an example to show Islam in bad light. However does that make them right? No it doesn't...clearly the ppl who would use that would be the ones who have been misled by the media(showing Islam in a bad light) and the likes of ISIS(committing horrible crimes with the label of Islam).

If these ppl were to truly study Islam then they would come to know that the Quran(the order in which it is today) didn't come in that order. The order of verses in which it is written was later decided by the Prophet Muhammad(PBUH). So for example a verse would be revealed to him...and he would recite it to his companions...and instruct them to write it before or after another verse. Each of these verses had a background and circumstances associated with it(as u said a context). So it is important to take that context into account(as Islamic scholars do)
...like I said the only way to be objective is for everyone to follow it as is...without inserting ur personal views.

So if as in ur example...those ppl misquote that verse and draw a different meaning...they are indirectly and unknowingly inserting their own preconceived notions into the subject.

As for others not agreeing with me and doing their own thing(coming to their own conclusions)...like I said before...it doesn't bother me one bit. I'm not here to make others follow what I say. I was merely stating that objectively committing shirk by definition goes against Islam. If ppl wish to make it okay subjectively in their heads for their satisfaction...well that's on them...they will be answerable for that.

Listen, brother. We are arguing needlessly. I did say I understood your views about the infallibility of Islam, and no other views are possible in matters of Shirk.

I am not an expert on Islam so it is better for me not to discuss your pious beliefs any further. I can only respect them, and I do.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Clueless? You know I can see the entire context in this thread? Bhakts apparently have a right to deify your illiterate OBC PM. A very sad fall from the blue-eyed-and-skinned Aryan invader gods of ancient times.

Says the guy with a Global Terrorist as his profile pic. Clueless, I'm gonna ignore your further oinking.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Says the guy with a Global Terrorist as his profile pic. Clueless, I'm gonna ignore your further oinking.

What's wrong with Mr. Hafiz Saeed? I know India is classifying him as a terrorist but I think it's a mistake. Based on some of the videos I saw of him, he sounds like a reasonable person, one you can sit and negotiate with.

Don't believe everything India media tells you. I would personally like to meet Mr. Saeed someday and even grab a selfie. Maybe he's not as bad as everyone in India thinks. He's just being misunderstood as some Pakistanis here have told me. He runs actual charitable organizations in Pakistan that help the poor. Maybe he will even help India's poor, the ones that are being neglected by Narendra Modi. If Mr. Saeed can help India's poor migrants who are stuck, then I feel we should waive off all our charges against him.

Pakistan should send Mr. Saeed as an ambassador to India. I would personally love to see him tear the holes of all Indian news channel anchors like Sudheer Chaudhary.

 

[Soumitra]

What's wrong with Mr. Hafiz Saeed? I know India is classifying him as a terrorist but I think it's a mistake. Based on some of the videos I saw of him, he sounds like a reasonable person, one you can sit and negotiate with.

Don't believe everything India media tells you. I would personally like to meet Mr. Saeed someday and even grab a selfie. Maybe he's not as bad as everyone in India thinks. He's just being misunderstood as some Pakistanis here have told me. He runs actual charitable organizations in Pakistan that help the poor. Maybe he will even help India's poor, the ones that are being neglected by Narendra Modi. If Mr. Saeed can help India's poor migrants who are stuck, then I feel we should waive off all our charges against him.

Pakistan should send Mr. Saeed as an ambassador to India. I would personally love to see him tear the holes of all Indian news channel anchors like Sudheer Chaudhary.

Not sure whether you are trolling or you truly believe this $hit.

Anyways it is in bad taste

 

[Chhatrapati]

What's wrong with Mr. Hafiz Saeed? I know India is classifying him as a terrorist but I think it's a mistake. Based on some of the videos I saw of him, he sounds like a reasonable person, one you can sit and negotiate with.

Don't believe everything India media tells you. I would personally like to meet Mr. Saeed someday and even grab a selfie. Maybe he's not as bad as everyone in India thinks. He's just being misunderstood as some Pakistanis here have told me. He runs actual charitable organizations in Pakistan that help the poor. Maybe he will even help India's poor, the ones that are being neglected by Narendra Modi. If Mr. Saeed can help India's poor migrants who are stuck, then I feel we should waive off all our charges against him.

Pakistan should send Mr. Saeed as an ambassador to India. I would personally love to see him tear the holes of all Indian news channel anchors like Sudheer Chaudhary.

I actually agree with you, also, I believe Osama Bin Laden is the most vilified person in history, he was running a charity organization for the betterment of Afghanistan, and whoops members in the charity organization accidentally ran a plane into the twin towers.

Indian media is not the reason Hafiz Saeed was declared a Global Terrorist by the UN and sanctioned. I guess it take more than media reports.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

I actually agree with you, also, I believe Osama Bin Laden is the most vilified person in history, he was running a charity organization for the betterment of Afghanistan, and whoops members in the charity organization accidentally ran a plane into the twin towers.

Indian media is not the reason Hafiz Saeed was declared a Global Terrorist by the UN and sanctioned. I guess it take more than media reports.

Haven't you heard one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter? Your Shivaji was also considered a terrorist by Aurangzeb. I prefer being neutral on the topic of Hafiz Saeed, that's all.

Not sure whether you are trolling or you truly believe this $hit.

Anyways it is in bad taste

I believe in everything I write. I am not a two-faced, lying self-deceiving Bhakt.

I blame it on Hindu culture which advocates "multiple truths," and "paths." That kind of philosophy only makes Indians a bit confused about their reality. They are unable to see that 600 million Indians don't have access to toilets, yet India is some kind of a superpower.

The rest of the world operates on a "Yes/Know," and "True/False" paradigm. Only in India people have multiple variations of the truth, and everything is internally inconsistent.

That is why India is such a *hole.

 

[StormBreaker]

YAWN. "You've" been killing each other since the Prophet died (Sunni vs Shia).

Can't even help the Rohingya... Malaysia is turning them back and Malay Muslims there appear to be sick of them.

So much for the ummah

And yet we had an enough grey area to invade India again and again for a millenium, Spain, Rome, Iran, Middle East, Africa.

Just imagine what we would have done to the world if we different sects were one entity...

So, Don’t get overjoyed

 

[Chhatrapati]

Haven't you heard one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter? Your Shivaji was also considered a terrorist by Aurangzeb. I prefer being neutral on the topic of Hafiz Saeed, that's all.

Being a Global Terrorist trumps all that, and that person becomes globally a terrorist. So, one person's terrorist proverb do not apply here.
Coming to Shivaji, any idiot with half brain would know Shivaji wasn't a Rebel in any form, he was a king when he was fighting or being allied with Mughals. But hey I don't expect a lot of Pakistanis to know history much.

 

[Hiptullha]

Being a Global Terrorist trumps all that, and that person becomes globally a terrorist. So, one person's terrorist proverb do not apply here.

Global terrorist just means India did randi rona and got the US and some other countries to help them out in return for arms deal. It doesn't mean anything and no one here cares about it. Sorry.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Global terrorist just means India did randi rona and got the US and some other countries to help them out in return for arms deal. It doesn't mean anything and no one here cares about it. Sorry.

Lol then why did China co sponsor it? Be it Masood Azhar or Hafiz Saeed both terrorists were sanctioned with the help of China. What kind of weapons China is going to sell.

 

[Hiptullha]

Lol then why did China co sponsor it?

India randi rona'd extra hard that one day in the UN assembly. China was blocking Indian appeals on Masood Azhar for years. Does that mean he wasn't a global terrorist before 2019? It's a completely useless term and you should learn to come up with your own words instead of parroting your foreign office.

 

[Chhatrapati]

India randi rona'd extra hard that one day in the UN assembly. China was blocking Indian appeals on Masood Azhar for years. Does that mean he wasn't a global terrorist before 2019? It's a completely useless term and you should learn to come up with your own words instead of parroting your foreign office.

No explanation on why China co sponsor it. Can't blame China now, can you? What happened, cat caught your tongue?

 

[Hiptullha]

No explanation on why China co sponsor it

You're like an NPC. Did my post not compute?