Z-10. Best attack helicopter made by an Asian country so far

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

 

[PradoTLC]

had engine issues when PA evaluated it... it could not operate well in our varied climatic conditions

knowing the Chinese I am sure they will find a solution..

 

[iLION12345_1]

had engine issues when PA evaluated it... it could not operate well in our varied climatic conditions

knowing the Chinese I am sure they will find a solution..

They already came out with a new, much improved version, the one we are evaluating now, the Z-10ME. It’s better than T-129 in most metrics, closer to AH-1Z.

 

[Khanate]

They already came out with a new, much improved version, the one we are evaluating now, the Z-10ME. It’s better than T-129 in most metrics, closer to AH-1Z.

Guess it is curtains for T-129 then.

 

[Surya 1]

Z10 is 2 times havier than LCH and yet has weaker engine compared to LCH. Its T/W ratio is less than half of LCH. It can not operate in Himslaya. This bulky weak chopper can not lift more than 500 kg beyong 10000 ft yet is the best in Asia. Best of luck to China.

 

[Akh1112]

Z10 is 2 times havier than LCH and yet has weaker engine compared to LCH. Its T/W ratio is less than half of LCH. It can not operate in Himslaya. This bulky weak chopper can not lift more than 500 kg beyong 10000 ft yet is the best in Asia. Best of luck to China.

well, yeah, it is in a different class to the LCH, so of course it would be heavier...

 

[Surya 1]

well, yeah, it is in a different class to the LCH, so of course it would be heavier...

Havier by 2 times yet lower power engine. Typical useless chinese junk with very limited usage.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Z10 is 2 times havier than LCH and yet has weaker engine compared to LCH. Its T/W ratio is less than half of LCH. It can not operate in Himslaya. This bulky weak chopper can not lift more than 500 kg beyong 10000 ft yet is the best in Asia. Best of luck to China.

Lmao, do you even have any idea what you’re saying? The LCH is a cheap helicopter that can carry a couple of missiles, this is a damn gunship. This is far more comparable to an Apache or an AH-1Z. The Z-10ME can carry more on one wing than two LCH can carry combined. The sensors in this thing alone are worth more than an entire LCH.

T/W ratio is variable according to the fuel and weapons carried, LCH is a tiny, useless helicopter that isn’t even in service with any force. Stuck in development hell like all the Indian projects. from the same company that made the Dhruv, known worldwide for not even having a waterproof cockpit. Also remind me just how much of the LCH is actually Indian? About 50% like your LCA. On top of that, it’s a LIGHT helicopter, of course it will have higher T/W, how about you compare the range, service ceiling, speed, weapons carried, sensors, amount of number in service and every other metric and see what’s better?

How can you call Chinese technology bad while not making any of your own and being fully reliant on foreign tech. Typical brainwashed ultranationalist.

Guess it is curtains for T-129 then.

If they cannot get it cleared by the end of 2021. Definitely.

 

[Akh1112]

Havier by 2 times yet lower power engine. Typical useless chinese junk with very limited usage.

its MTOW is greater by 3000lbs with the same power output, with 3x the payload capacity you halfwit

 

[Beast]

had engine issues when PA evaluated it... it could not operate well in our varied climatic conditions

knowing the Chinese I am sure they will find a solution..

Old problem that still beating the dead horses.

It is solved many years ago. Live demo of Z-10 operate in high plateau in Tibet

 

[Pandora]

Guess it is curtains for T-129 then.

Not really T129 will definitely come. Pakistan will definitely buy a batch at least for variety of reasons. One and most important being political in nature. T129 is still a better helicopter as it incorporates latest western tech. If there were no engine issues by US Pakistan wouldn't have definitely choose T129 over Z10ME. It also aligns with policy where we want to diversify our suppliers rather than depending just on china. We need to remember that whether US or China have a sense of entitlement where they like to be worshiped. If they see us deviating even a little in foreign policy toward the other side they will cause supply chain issues. We have seen Russians do this with Indians at crucial times. US probably is the classic example of how relying on one party is the worst idea ever.

My 2cents are that we should wait for T129 even if takes a few years. We have already put too much weight in Chinese basket. If we don't want another Episode of US we need to diversify our acquisitions.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Not really T129 will definitely come. Pakistan will definitely buy a batch at least for variety of reasons. One and most important being political in nature. T129 is still a better helicopter as it incorporates latest western tech. If there were no engine issues by US Pakistan wouldn't have definitely choose T129 over Z10ME. It also aligns with policy where we want to diversify our suppliers rather than depending just on china. We need to remember that whether US or China have a sense of entitlement where they like to be worshiped. If they see us deviating even a little in foreign policy toward the other side they will cause supply chain issues. We have seen Russians do this with Indians at crucial times. US probably is the classic example of how relying on one party is the worst idea ever.

My 2cents are that we should wait for T129 even if takes a few years. We have already put too much weight in Chinese basket. If we don't want another Episode of US we need to diversify our acquisitions.

We can only wait so long. End of 2021 is the final deadline. Historically Pakistan had maintained a major lead from India when it came to attack helicopter fleets, having close to 50 AH1Fs in service compared to their few Mi-24s. When We went for AH-1Zs to maintain this gap, they went for Apaches to close it, but they got their delivery, we didn’t. T-129 was the second option. 3 years later they have their Apaches and we still have nothing. The AH-1Fs have reached the end of their life cycle, can only keep flying for so long. If we cannot get T-129, we must get Z-10ME soon to regain said advantage.

I understand your concern, I would rather not have to buy another Chinese system, even PA didn’t, that’s why they went for two other systems before it, but now we may have no other option.

 

[Pandora]

We can only wait so long. End of 2021 is the final deadline. Historically Pakistan had maintained a major lead from India when it came to attack helicopter fleets, having close to 50 AH1Fs in service compared to their few Mi-24s. When We went for AH-1Zs to maintain this gap, they went for Apaches to close it, but they got their delivery, we didn’t. T-129 was the second option. 3 years later they have their Apaches and we still have nothing. The AH-1Fs have reached the end of their life cycle, can only keep flying for so long. If we cannot get T-129, we must get Z-10ME soon to regain said advantage.

I understand your concern, I would rather not have to buy another Chinese system, even PA didn’t, that’s why they went for two other systems before it, but now we may have no other option.

I am not saying we will not buy Z10. I am merely saying Z10 will be a stop gap with T129 being mainstay in future. T129 has much potential to grow as turkey has much better access to latest tech. Z10 at best substitute can substitute not surpass Cobras.

 

[iLION12345_1]

I am not saying we will not buy Z10. I am merely saying Z10 will be a stop gap with T129 being mainstay in future. T129 has much potential to grow as turkey has much better access to latest tech. Z10 at best substitute can substitute not surpass Cobras.

That’s not true, Chinese technology will advance miles ahead of Turkish technology simply because China has more money. The Turkish system is literally delayed because it’s foreign dependent, Turkish systems have a bright future, but it will take a while for them to get there, China is already there and advancing more rapidly than any country. Z-10ME is superior to T-129B in most metrics. Unlike the Z-10M we tested prior.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, and once more I mean no offense to the Turkish members, I respect their defense industry and it’s amazing growth, but they cannot match up to the Chinese defense industry, no one can, and with Turkeys recent gripes with the USA and their potential gripes with Europe, a lot of their projects have the potential to hit export issues. Pakistanis have some sort of an obsession with Turkish products, it’s just as unhealthy as one with Chinese products. Turkey may have blocked its own access to the best tech due to the souring of its relations with NATO, this will not stop their defense industries advance, at most it will slow it down. Pakistan does buy Turkish tech when it’s the best option, as it did with the ships and the T-129s, but Turkey is not always the best option either.

Inducting Z-10ME as a stopgap is also an illogical decision, considering they are of the same Cost and Z-10 is currently better anyways, why would PA get two different platforms and mess up its own logistics? Maybe we can consider ATAK-2, but If Z-10 is bought, T-129 will not even be considered.

And what do you mean it cannot surpass the cobras? Our AH-1Fs are nearing obsoletion. AH-1Z is likely the most advanced attack helicopter on the planet right now, even half a generation ahead of Apache (though Apache does have higher payload due to size). Z-10ME is the next best thing currently on the market. T-129B doesn’t surpass AH-1Z either.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Guess it is curtains for T-129 then.

The weakness of T-129 is lack of domestic engine.

Havier by 2 times yet lower power engine. Typical useless chinese junk with very limited usage.

The newer Z-10ME has more powerful engine. Also, Z-20 attack version has superior power to weight ratio than LCH.