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Yet another nation destroyed by Western powers in the ME

Thank you, moral western democracies for this. A thriving, prosperous country turned into a shithole thanks to french greed.

I beg to differ!

By 1900s the Khalifah system was more a Monarchy with palaces and women being the norm... then a proper Caliphate - true to its title (which literally meant democratically elected- or elected based on the insights of a selected / trustworthy few)

Sadly under the Khafiah name there was a Monarchy in practice and to shame someone for not following the disguised system is not wise!
Indeed. The Ottoman military were a bunch of degenerates, and so was the ottoman bureaucracy. The "Caliph" was just another powerless monarch playing in the hands of the ottoman corrupt elite.
 
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Syria-Yemen-Libya utterly ruined. These desert people have no notion of nationhood, what a tragedy. Killing each other to death, being pawns of others...
 
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Syria-Yemen-Libya utterly ruined. These desert people have no notion of nationhood, what a tragedy. Killing each other to death, being pawns of others...
When Western powers investing billions in coup d'etat (training local traitors-collaborators or/and armed fighters, demonizing legitimate authorities, economic sanctions for rising of public disorder in your country) - there is little you can do. You can fight them or obey them. They will benefit in both cases - be it civil war or puppet government.
 
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I beg to differ!

By 1900s the Khalifah system was more a Monarchy with palaces and women being the norm... then a proper Caliphate - true to its title (which literally meant democratically elected- or elected based on the insights of a selected / trustworthy few)

Sadly under the Khafiah name there was a Monarchy in practice and to shame someone for not following the disguised system is not wise!

In that case the Islamic world has not had a Khalifa since the beginning of the reign of the Banu Ummaya. The role of the Khalifa has been hereditary pretty much the entire history of the Islamic world with only the first four being elected. Even Harun ur Rashid was an Abbasi Khalifa.

We can make of that what we want but i think it is unfair to fault the Osmanli for this point given that pretty much all prior khalifas barring four had also been hereditary monarchs (and all of these dynasties had degenerate monarchs within).
 
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Ukraine's plane crash was a media frenzy gifted by khamenei to Trump. Trump had a ukraine story too , the UkraineGate as they call it in his impeachment process. this way they can't Ukraine Ukraine anymore when they put trump on trial .
 
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Those degenerates did more for Islam than in one week than you could ever do in your life
Thank you, moral western democracies for this. A thriving, prosperous country turned into a shithole thanks to french greed.


Indeed. The Ottoman military were a bunch of degenerates, and so was the ottoman bureaucracy. The "Caliph" was just another powerless monarch playing in the hands of the ottoman corrupt elite.
 
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France has singlehandedly destroyed Libya due to oil greed.

This is now another Syria in the making where different nations are going to be vying for power.

It's not just france, britain also was in on the act, working together like a bunch rabid zionist dogs.
 
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In that case the Islamic world has not had a Khalifa since the beginning of the reign of the Banu Ummaya. The role of the Khalifa has been hereditary pretty much the entire history of the Islamic world with only the first four being elected. Even Harun ur Rashid was an Abbasi Khalifa.
I agree it is the sad reality!

Though there were great generals, kings and leaders..But those who corrupted the word Khalifah dont really deserve to be praised as a Caliph! But rather as a great hero!

We can make of that what we want but i think it is unfair to fault the Osmanli for this point given that pretty much all prior khalifas barring four had also been hereditary monarchs (and all of these dynasties had degenerate monarchs within).
The Rashidin Khalifa were not monarchies! But anything after them sadly were...And that is why I dont dignify them with the Khalfiah title but call them great heroes/ kings/ leaders!

Indeed. The Ottoman military were a bunch of degenerates, and so was the ottoman bureaucracy. The "Caliph" was just another powerless monarch playing in the hands of the ottoman corrupt elite.
ain? I wouldnt go that far :D
 
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So UK and France, what happened to "democracy" in Libya?

It's a myth. Doesn't really exist. Western Europe is severe oppression. We just have clean water here to drink. That's why we are happy

I feel for Libyans. Sooo many years and war war war. All that for no apparent reason. They were so happy and prosperous before. Alas
 
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Indeed. The Ottoman military were a bunch of degenerates, and so was the ottoman bureaucracy. The "Caliph" was just another powerless monarch playing in the hands of the ottoman corrupt elite.

Every country, kingdom, empire has its rise and fall, and the fall is often due to a rise in corruption and greed. The Ottomans are not an exception but it is irresponsible to throw out a statement like the Ottoman military were a bunch of degenerates given that they first and foremost expanded the borders of the Islamic world leading to Muslim majority countries in even Europe like Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo (even more than a third of Macedonians are Muslims).

They also single handedly held back the colonial powers from the Middle East all the way up to 1918 whilst the rest of the Islamic world was falling one by one like dominos to the European colonial powers by the 16/1700s.

Territories that the Ottomans lost prior to WW1 underwent an extensive cleansing campaign of Muslims (Balkans, Crimea, Greece, Caucasus etc). This trend would have continued into the Middle East as well had the Ottomans not held their ground all the way up to 1918. Ottoman and later Turkish efforts ensured a massive Armenia and Assyria were not carved out of Turkey, Syria and Iraq.

The Ottoman navy assisted South Asian and South East Asian Muslim nations to fight off the Portuguese in the Indian Ocean. The Portuguese were notorious for raiding boats carrying pilgrims to Makkah and Madina. Through battles like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Diu_(1531) and alliances like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_expedition_to_Aceh, they assisted Muslim nations.

Eventually the Ottomans lost which was only a question of time (the whole Muslim world needed to accept modernity) but the fact that they were able to extend Muslim rule over the Middle East another two centuries meant that colonial rule over the Middle East lasted a couple of decades at max in contrast to the 200 odd years for most of the Muslim world. Even then the Ottoman military performed admirably given the circumstances right till the end, defeating the global powers in battles such as Kut and Gallipoli (the latter battle laying the foundation stone from which Ataturk then continued to resist foreign incursions into Anatolia and Thrace resulting in the Turkish state which is today led by Erdogan.)

Yes the Ottomans had flaws and some rulers were better and others worse. Given however that they were at the doorstep of Europe and still managed to survive far longer than most Muslim powers means the "degenerate" title is unfair to say the least.

I agree it is the sad reality!

Though there were great generals, kings and leaders..But those who corrupted the word Khalifah dont really deserve to be praised as a Caliph! But rather as a great hero!


The Rashidin Khalifa were not monarchies! But anything after them sadly were...And that is why I dont dignify them with the Khalfiah title but call them great heroes/ kings/ leaders!

That is your opinion and we can agree to disagree, no issues. Given the logistics and reality of the time however i would argue a heredity khilafat was more or less the only option, especially as the border of the Muslim world expanded and the fact that the earlier phase of electing khalifas had resulted in great internal strife (fitnas) in the Islamic world. For the sake of stability it was a neccessary evil which is why I supppse the clergy throughout the centuries did not delve too much into this matter either.
 
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I don't blame anyone but the Libyans themselves, they only answer to dictatorship, they can't unite under a free democratic country. we (Morocco) tried to help them unite peacefully but they wouldn't .
the weird thing, is that zionist wannabe superpower arab state UAE, this country has nothing to do but inflame civil wars in the Arab world, as if they were doing it on the behalf of the Zionist state itself and they are I believe. can someone deal with them !!

I don’t blame those ignorant Pakistani and Turks that they are twisting the facts to fit Them .... but for you ( if you are Moroccan) ... you should know more about that .... don’t accuse Emirates of things ... just to gain likes from people have nothing to do with Libya .

After the NATO Proxy ( Turkey) started sending ISIS & Nusra Troops to Libya from Syria .... the killing will increase dramatically ....

The Turks after invading Syria and buying cheap oil from ISIS , they want to steal more oil from Libya .... even on the dead bodies of Muslims in Libya.
 
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After the NATO Proxy ( Turkey) started sending ISIS & Nusra Troops to Libya from Syria .... the killing will increase dramatically ....

The Turks after invading Syria and buying cheap oil from ISIS , they want to steal more oil from Libya .... even on the dead bodies of Muslims in Libya.

No more your lies wont work

try harder
 
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Thank you, moral western democracies for this. A thriving, prosperous country turned into a shithole thanks to french greed.


Indeed. The Ottoman military were a bunch of degenerates, and so was the ottoman bureaucracy. The "Caliph" was just another powerless monarch playing in the hands of the ottoman corrupt elite.

Ottoman powerless monarch? Just don't talk when you don't have idea:-). Ottomans did fight until the very end and saved Turks not to be colonised. The rest of the Islamic world can not be said:mad:, specially the Arabs and they are happy what they have achieved today:-).

The great Ottomans even helped Indonesia back in the time, untill the end they helped but when the Arabs revolted they couldn't do much and Atjeh did fall they could not send more help and equipments because they need it self. It is not easy to fight superpowers of that time, England and Russian Tsar. Powerless Ottomans:(...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_expedition_to_Aceh


Teh corrupt Ottoman elite, they even send help to south:-) Africa. Ooh they are not Khalifa..

Really sometimes we need give people the finger and show them they can fix it selfs. Ottoman Empire really did worked hard, from Africa to Asia. Balkans to Causcaus and people talking shit. And yet still we help people and we get nothing for back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_South_Africa
 
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The usual vehicle for the imperialist powers is the so called secular society in these failed states, be it Libya, Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan. These countries had got infested with secularists first before imperialist powers were invited by those secularists as local cohorts. We are lucky that the secularists are well kept at bay in Pakistan by the military whenever it is needed. Do not give any room to secularists to grow. Otherwise, they will invite imperialist powers to install so called fake human rights and democracy. Pork and whiskey consuming secularists are the modern day Mir Jafars.
 
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don’t accuse Emirates of things
I am a Moroccan, we are neutral about Libya, Haftar or Qaddafi or Sarraj doesn't change in our situation a single thing, but I am speaking from an Islamic point of view, haftar is a coward dictator supported by Qaddafis loyalists, I know for sure Turks want oil and gas but also does Sisi, he wants Libya's oil to build more prisons for muslims, I rather have Libyans share their oil with Turks than with France and Greece and Germany and Israel, I rather have Libya under Erdogan than under Sisi and MBS and MBZ, because these arab dictators are traitors to Islam and enemies of Allah swt, and killers of muslims.
if I had to chose between Erdogan and Sisi the enemy of ALLAH SWT , I would chose Erdogan of course.
 
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