Yahya Khan revealed his intentions 10 days ahead of 71 war.

[janon]

Technically the Indian military support and sanctuary for East Pakistani terrorists/rebels would be considered an 'Act of War'.

I agree. But in most cases, acts of war are more honourable than acts of genocide. Especially when the said act of war was to put an end to the said act of genocide.

PS: I have left you a message on your page about the deletion of some posts. Please respond to it. I did not know I could send it as a private message.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I agree. But in most cases, acts of war are more honourable than acts of genocide. Especially when the said act of war was to put an end to the said act of genocide.

The act of genocide is not yet proven, and atrocities were committed by both sides - as I said, you can read the opposing POV on the threads mentioned.

Secondly, the 'Act of War' by some Indian accounts themselves, started in April/May, and therefore did not come about as a result of any alleged 'genocide' or 'massive refugee influx'. In fact, Indian 'Acts of War', in supporting terrorists/rebels in East Pakistan could be argued to have inflamed the situation and made the violence and refugee problem even worse.

---------- Post added at 03:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 PM ----------

Not when the actions of the Pak military caused millions of 'aliens' to migrate to India and threaten the social,demographic and economic fabric of that area.

Indian actions preceded the 'millions of refugees' claim - by some Indian accounts themselves (as has bee pointed out in other threads on this same discussion) the Indians started supporting and sheltering East Pakistani terrorists as early as April/May, long before the refugee crises.

So in a sense India herself helped exacerbate the tensions and conflict in East Pakistan, and herself helped create the conditions for the massive refugee crises.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^^^ no disrespect sir but what we did in east Pakistan is what you tried to do in Kashmir 6 years earlier in operation gibraltar whatever you may call it a spade is a spade the only thing is we were successful in our goal of ripping the Pakistani nation in half whereas you guys were unsuccessful in ripping away Kashmir from us

The point I am making is not about success or failure, but about the fact that it was India that engaged in an 'Act of War' first in 1971, and in doing so created the conditions that led to the massive refugee exodus and the eventual India-Pakistan overt war.

If you look at one of the stickys in the military history section, I have argued the same point.

 

[janon]

^^
If you are participating in the discussion, you shouldn't exercise your power as moderator or admin and keep deleting the other person's post selectively - you should let another mod do that. Thats just a suggestion - of course, it is your forum and you can do what you want.

I'm backing off from this thread, since it is not possible to have a legitimate discussion under these circumstances when we both exchange our views, and you keep deleting my posts.

I repeat the suggestion - please keep your moderator work separate from your discussions.

I'm not questioning whether my posts were worth deleting or not, but just saying that if you are actively participating in the discussion its unfair to also be a mod. I say this out of interest for legitimate exchanges.

 

[Desert Fox]

What's the point of all of this?????? Who cares what he said 40+ years ago??? Its the past, for the love of God let it go already!!!!! shewwwww.

 

[JonAsad]

Quiz time-
Who did the most damage to Pakistan-

Liberal usualy drunk yahya- ayub
Or
Religious zia-

 

[lem34]

Quiz time-
Who did the most damage to Pakistan-

Liberal usualy drunk yahya- ayub
Or
Religious zia-

Yaar stop giving me such tough questions lol pdf is for relax

 

[JonAsad]

Yaar stop giving me such tough questions lol pdf is for relax

Man i think its unfair to blame zia for all the ills- forgetting what mayhem the liberals has brought Pakistan into- the biggest shame was dealt to us by them- but hey we want to forget east Pakistan- so blaming starts from zia and after- thats ridiculous-

I think we need to hv a thorough discussion on this aswell- maybe a seperate thread-

 

[KS]

Indian actions preceded the 'millions of refugees' claim - by some Indian accounts themselves (as has bee pointed out in other threads on this same discussion) the Indians started supporting and sheltering East Pakistani terrorists as early as April/May, long before the refugee crises.

So in a sense India herself helped exacerbate the tensions and conflict in East Pakistan, and herself helped create the conditions for the massive refugee crises.

That account is disputed.

---------- Post added at 02:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:14 AM ----------

The point I am making is not about success or failure, but about the fact that it was India that engaged in an 'Act of War' first in 1971, and in doing so created the conditions that led to the massive refugee exodus and the eventual India-Pakistan overt war.

If you look at one of the stickys in the military history section, I have argued the same point.

Oh, and BTW the first formal declaration of war was by Pakistan through Operation Chengiz Khan and not India.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Well as an Urdu speaker Canadian from Bangladesh (former East Pakistan) this episode is quite close to my heart

i will agree with santro & agno here that along with administrative failure coupled up by outside support to the separatist & the heavy handed response of yahya khan were the pillars of the outcome of the 71 war, but their is also one more reason which is this, what happens to countries when they neglect their navies. remember one of India's trump card on this conflict was the naval blocked of east Pakistan , now considering that the period of ayub khan saw a lot of economic prospect thus taking advantage of this had Pakistan built a strong naval force in both east & west Pakistan which would help secure its transit route & ward of any hostile action to wards it then it could have thwarted the Indian naval blocked of east Pakistan but hence that was not the case & we see the dangerous results of it point is a strong navy is extremely important in todays Geo-Politics specially for countries with coastlines Allah the Merciful blessed us with two important strategic coastlines one in the east with Chittagong & one in the west with Karachi & Gwader but we did not value it. "Navy" a strong navy is vital , its a blessed art of deterrent & exploration which when implemented correctly on waters can do wonders, if ignored it can be lethal & if implanted can yield a solid deterrence & a strong sense of security & respect in eyes of the world community it can become an excellent instrument to bargain from a position of strength

 

[indianspetsnaz]

The point I am making is not about success or failure, but about the fact that it was India that engaged in an 'Act of War' first in 1971, and in doing so created the conditions that led to the massive refugee exodus and the eventual India-Pakistan overt war.

If you look at one of the stickys in the military history section, I have argued the same point.

my point is that what we did covertly in 1971 is what you guys tried to do 6 years prior in operation gibraltar i mean lets look at this from reality we saw a chance to screw you guys and we took the chance it proved to be a good gamble seeing how it was payback for op gibraltar and it showed we dominated the subcontinent however strategically speaking it was a blunder for us because Pagali Gandhi in Shimla decided to return to ante bellum borders on the western front despite Indian army making considerable gains

we took the chance but in the end we did not use our victory in our favor and look at what we have now 2 nuclear armed nations one with an unstable internal situation and a weak democracy the other with a useless votebank centric government that focuses on reopening old wounds rather than fixing them.

the saddest part is we still allow this to go on in the words of Malcolm X we must liberate our minds by any means necessary

 

[jha]

Quiz time-
Who did the most damage to Pakistan-

Liberal usualy drunk yahya- ayub
Or
Religious zia-

None of them..Bhutto is the father of all the wrongdoings of Pakistan and the results out of it...
He was a shrewd, power hungry egomaniac who single handedly changed the future of pakistanis..
Sorry if any Bhutto lover is hurt but this is my honest opinion...

 

[third eye]

Technically the Indian military support and sanctuary for East Pakistani terrorists/rebels would be considered an 'Act of War'.

Could you kindly explain how support / sanctuary for refugees ' technically' amounts to an act of war ?

 

[IND151]

Try reading the second quoted paragraph on my post number 9 and you will understand that these figures don't sound that solid.Propaganda can be hard to back up.

and what about those 10 MN E Pakistanis who took refuge in india and made our tt troubled economy more troubled? feggpqe gi

 

[ice_man]

^^^ no disrespect sir but what we did in east Pakistan is what you tried to do in Kashmir 6 years earlier in operation gibraltar whatever you may call it a spade is a spade the only thing is we were successful in our goal of ripping the Pakistani nation in half whereas you guys were unsuccessful in ripping away Kashmir from us

sir what we tried doing in kashmir 6 years earlier was directly the lead on of what you did in Junagadh & kashmir in 1947. so if you want to keep going back let's do that.