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Xinjiang Province: News & Discussions

Right...did Washington post realize that Xinjiang has a population of 22 million, about 2/3 of the population of Canada? If a few houses are searched because of tip-offs, it isn't equivalent to "all-out war on conservative Islam". Because I am pretty sure LAPD hand out a lot more search warrants than Chinese police by a long shot.

And I am also sorry for the terrible "crime" of "eat instead of fasting, and work or attend classes". Let's forget a moment how exact you are supposed to force someone to eat on a massive scale, the bar for fear and repression must be awfully low if these are considered all-out war. You know, they should instead consider things like "outright invasion of another country" or "train and arm known terrorists".

Let's also look at the "have corrupted the people of Xinjiang" part. Did Washington Post believe Chinese people and government to be retarded? Any sane government is not going to alienate a huge portion of the country by making a statement like that, but I guess it is okay for Washington post to say so, since they have zero care on Chinese and frankly, only making the story to sell to Americans.

BTW, most of these terrorist organization has links to USA and co. Some are funded and some of them are trained outright by CIA. If Washington Post is so concerned about the wellfare of people in Xinjiang, they should have a long hard look at what their country is producing and releasing into the world.
 
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Oh look, another Uighur thread made by, you guessed it an Indian poster. What happens next, several Indian trolls, new members mostly, pour on the bile against Pakistan, which again has nothing to do with us, but it is lost on them. Hey any opportunity to bring Pakistan in shouldn't go a miss, after all the obsession is strong with such folk.

Firstly how is it an attack on Islam, when the Muslim Hui people are perhaps the most successful minority in the whole country. A minority that has held high positions in the government and the army. A people who also helped put down the Uighur uprisings. So Muslims were attacking Islam as well? :rolleyes:. It's an ethnic/nationalistic struggle, nothing to do with faith.

Why should we even comment? Do you know how many Uighur men have been caught and killed fighting with the Pakistani Taliban? Many have! Yet we are supposed to charge to the rescue at any mere mention of the Uighur people.

Pakistanis forum members have said in the past on many threads that we ask our Chinese friends to tackle the issue delicately, which I'm sure they will do. Minorities are exempt from many laws that ethnic Han have to adhere for example.
 
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Time to face some facts:

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by @Wholegrain

The same accusation that Han people are demographically swamping Uyghurs has been repeated around over 1,000 times already and is widespread in the western and other media hostile to China (India etc.)

Xinjiang is made out of two distinct regions which were not culturally or politically linked until China put them together in one province. They are Dzungharia (mostly Ili) and the Tarim Basin. Dzungharia is steppe and was traditionally home to nomads and nomadic empires. The Tarim Basin is made out of Oases and home to sedentary people.

Han Chinese have almost entirely migrated to Dzungharia and not the Tarim Basin. Nearly the entire Han population in Xinjiang lives in Dzungharia. The Uyghurs are not natives to Dzungharia but immigrants from the Tarim so both Han and Uyghurs in Dzungharia are immigrants.

The Uyghurs are native to the Tarim Basin, which is in southern Xinjiang only. It is the former territory of the Chagatai Khanate. The Uyghurs were sedentary Turkic speaking farmers in the Oaseses of the Tarim. Before the Soviets gave them the name "Uyghur" in 1921 they were not known as Uyghurs but as Turkis in the west. They called themselves Sart, which meant a sedentary Turkic speaking Muslim, or by the Oases they came from. If they came from Turpan they would be Turpanlk. Their language was called Eastern Turki or Chagatai. The Tarim Basin was also known as Moghulistan (Mongol land) since the Chagatais were descendants of Genghis Khan.

Dzungharia is in northern Xinjiang. It was home to the Dzunghar Oirat Mongols who were a nomadic, Lamaist Buddhist people. Their state was the Zunghar Khanate. The name of Xinjiang's capital Urumqi is from the Dzunghar, not the Uyghur language.

In the Chagatai Khanate, the Chagataid Khan and princes were the secular rulers. The religious leaders were the Sayyid Naqshbandi Khojas. There were two factions of Khojas, the Qarataghliks and Aqtaghliks. The Qarataghliks and the Chagatai Khan expelled the Aqtaghliks from power. The Aqtaghliks sought aid from the Buddhist Zunghar Khanate, which then attacked the Chagatai Khanate, installed the Aqtaghliks as puppets and forced the turkic population into submission and paying tribute.

The Chagataid Turks and Qarataghlik Khojas then turned to China for aid. China and the Turkic muslims (Uyghur ancestors) launched a massive campaign the Dzunghars in 1758-1759 and nearly exterminated the entire Zunghar population. Only tens of thousands are still left in Xinjiang.

The Zunghar Khanate was then absorbed into China, and the Chagatai prince, the Qarataghlik Khojas and the Turkic Khans and Begs then submitted to Chinese rule and the Tarim Basin also became part of China. The Aqtaghlik Khojas were bitter about their loss and tried to forment rebellion but were defeated.

China then settled in the place of the decimated Dzunghar population, thousands of Han, Hui, Manchus, Xibo, and Turkic Muslims from the Tarim Basin (uyghurs ancestors). Those turkic muslims became known as the Taranchi and the Uyghurs in modern Dzungharia are their descendants. Very few Han migrated into the Uyghurs native Tarim basin.

Urumqi was originally a Han and Hui (Tungan) city with few Uyghurs. Its the Uyghurs who are the immigrants.

Beyond the Pass: Economy, Ethnicity, and Empire in Qing Central Asia, 1759-1864 - James A. Millward - Google Books

Beyond the Pass: Economy, Ethnicity, and Empire in Qing Central Asia, 1759-1864 - James A. Millward - Google Books

Foreign tourists in Urumchi today sometimes complain that the city is "too Chinese" in comparison with the Central Asian atmosphere of southern Xinjiang; many believe Urumchi's East Turkestani culture has been erased by Han immigration and architecture. In fact, the Uyghur population and culture in the city today is a relatively recent feature, for Urumchi in its first decades in most respects resembled a north Chinese town, populated primarily by Tungans from Gansu and Shaanxi and Han from many Chinese provinces, in addition to the bannermen.
The Qing administed the Dzungharia and the Tarim basin as separate regions. The north (dzungharia) used to be called 天山北路 tianshan beilu and the south (Tarim Basin) was 天山南路 tianshan nanlu.

Those two distinct areas, Dzungharia (tianshan beilu) and Tarim Basin (tianshan nanlu) were combined to form Xinjiang province in 1884 by the Chinese government. Ever since then its been regarded as a single province,

This is an old book from 200 years ago. Soungaria is Dzungharia and Turkestan refers to the Tarim Basin only

China ; Political, Commercial, and Social: In an Official Report to Her ... - Robert Montgomery Martin - Google Books

The government of Soungaria and Turkestan is of three kinds: —1st. In the easternmost districts of Soungaria, Barkoul, and Orountchi, it is much the same as China, and these districts have been incorporated with the province of Kansuh; 2nd. In the western districts around Ele, where the Chinese convicts are sent, it is strictly military, being occupied by Mantchou troops, who are considered as inhabitants of the soil; they are commanded by a general and subordinate officers, whose authority extends to the eastern districts, and to Turkestan; in Turkestan, the government is left in the hands of the native nobles, who are Begs of different degrees of rank, under the control of Chinese residents at the principal cities.
More...

The book of the world - Richard Swainson Fisher - Google Books

That part of the empire called Hi is a vast region, lying on each side of the Tien-shan, or Celestial Mountains, and including a tract nearly as large as Mongolia, and not much more susceptible of cultivation. The limits extend from 36° to 49° N , and from longitude 71° to 96° E. It is divided by the Tien-shan into two parts called " lu," or circuits, viz.: Tien-shanpeh-lu and Tien-shan-nan-lu, or north and south of the Celestial Mountains. The former is commonly denominated Songaria, from the Songares its former rulers, and the latter is known as Little Bokara, or Eastern Turkestan. Hi, taken as a whole, may be regarded as an inland isthmus, extending south-west from the south of Siberia, off between the Gobi and Caspian deserts, till it reaches the Hindoo-Kush, leading down to the valley of the Indus. The former of these deserts encloses it on the east and south, and the other on the west and north-west, separated from each other by the Belur-tag and the Muz-tag ranges, which join with the Celestial Mountains that divide the isthmus itself into two parts. These deserts united are equal to the extent of Sahara, but are not as arid and tenantless. Little is known of the topography, productions, or civilization of the tribes, but the efforts of the Chinese have been systematically directed to developing the agricultural resources of the country, by stationing troops in every part, who cultivate the soil, and by banishing criminals thereto, who are obliged to work for, and assist the soldiers. The productions are numerous. Wheat, barley, rice, and millet are the chief grains; tobacco, cotton, and fruits are grown; herds of horses, camels, cattle and sheep, afford means of locomotion and food for the people, while the mountains and lakes supply game and fish. The inhabitants are composed mostly of Eleuths, Mongols, Manchus, Chinese, and several native tribes. The government is under the control of the Manchu military officers residing at Hi.

Tien-shan-peh-lu is divided into three commandaries. Hi on the west, Tarbagatai on the north, and Kur-kara-usu on the east, between Hi and Oroumtsi, in Kansuh. The districts of Tarbagatai and Kur-kara-usu are small compared with Hi.

Tien-shan-nan-lu, or southern circuit of Hi, also named Sin-kiang or new frontier, has been called Little Bokhara and Chinese or Eastern Turkestan, by foreigners. It is less fertile than the Northern Circuit, the greatest part of iis area being rugged mountains and barren wastes. The Tarim flows through it from west to east, from the Belur-tag to Lop-nor, a lake lying on the edge ot the desert. No other river basins of any size are found within the circuit. The climate is exceedingly dry, and its barrenness is owing more to the want of moisture than to the nature of the soil. The productions of the valley of Tarim comprise most of the grains and fruits of Southern Europe. The mountains and marshes contains jackals, tigers, bears, wolves, &c. Gold, copper, and iron, are brought from this region ; but as articles of trade they are less important than the sal-ammoniac, saltpetre, sulphur, and asbestos, obtained in the volcanic region on the east of the Celestial mountains. The present divisions of this circuit are regulated by the position of the "eight Mahomedan cities," viz: Harashar, Kuche, Ushi, (including Sairim and Bai,) Oksu, Khoten, Yarkand, Cashgar, and Yingeshar. The superior officers reside at Yarkand, but the southern circuit is divided into four minor governments at Harashar, Ushi, Yarkand, and Khoten.

The government of Hi differs in some respects from that of Mongolia, where religion is partly called in to aid the state. In the northern circuit the authority is strictly military. The supreme command of the whole of Hi is entrusted by the colonial office to a Manchu, "tsiang-kiun," or military governor-general, resident at Kuldsha, who has under him two councillors to take cognizance of civil cases, and 31 residents scattered about in both circuits. The governor also commands the troops of Kansuh, but has nothing to do with the civil jurisdiction. The revenue is derived from a capitation tax and tithes on produce. There are no transit duties as in China, but custom-houses are established at the frontier trading ports. The character of the inhabitants north of the Tien-shan is rendered unlike that of those dwelling in the southern circuit by the diversity in their language and nomadic habits, more than by the sway religious rites and allegiance have over them. The language generally used in the south is the Jaghatai Turki of the Kalmucks. The Usbecks constitute the majority of the people, but Eleuths and Kalmucks are everywhere intermixed. The Tibetans have settled in Khoten, or more probably remnants still exist there of the former inhabitants.
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Here are souces on how the Qing dynasty colonized Dzungharia with BOTH Han and Taranchis (Uyghur ancestors) from Tarim oases like Aksu and other peoples like Manchus, Xibe and others. Both Han and Uyghurs are not native and are immigrants.

Beyond the Pass: Economy, Ethnicity, and Empire in Qing Central Asia, 1759-1864 - James A. Millward - Google Books

China Marches West: The Qing Conquest of Central Eurasia - Peter C Perdue - Google Books

State Capitalism, Contentious Politics and Large-Scale Social Change - Google Books

Now in modern times since 1950, China has directed most Han immigration into Dzungharia (and alot of development as well). The majority of Han in Xinjiang a NOT on Uyghur native land and both Han and Uyghurs in Dzungharia are immigrants. The Dzunghars are the natives and they are almost extinct. The Uyghurs are the majority in their native tarim basin.

Xinjiang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At the start of the 19th century, 40 years after the Qing reconquest, there were around 155,000 Han and Hui Chinese in northern Xinjiang and somewhat more than twice that number of Uyghurs in southern Xinjiang.[79] A census of the time tabulated ethnic shares of the population as 60% Turkic and 30% Han.[80] Before 1831 only a few hundred Chinese merchants lived in southern Xinjiang oases (Tarim Basin), and only a few Uyghurs lived in northern Xinjiang (Dzungaria).[81] After 1831 the Qing permitted and encouraged Han Chinese migration into the Tarim basin in southern Xinjiang, although with very little success, and stationed permanent troops on the land there as well.[82] Political killings and expulsions of non Uyghur populations in the uprisings of the 1860s[82] and 1930s saw them experience a sharp decline as a percentage of the total population[83] though they rose once again in the periods of stability following 1880 (which saw Xinjiang increase its population from 1.2 million)[84][85] and 1949. From a low of 7% in 1953, the Han began to return to Xinjiang between then and 1964, where they comprised 33% of the population (54% Uyghur), similarly to Qing times. A decade later, at the beginning of the Chinese economic reform in 1978, the demographic balance was 46% Uyghur and 40% Han;[80] this has not changed drastically until the last census in 2000, with the Uyghur population reduced to 42%.[86] Military personnel are not counted and national minorities are undercounted in the Chinese census, as in most censuses.[87] While some of the shift has be attributed to an increased Han presence,[88] Uyghurs have also emigrated to other parts of China, where their numbers have increased steadily. Uyghur independence activists express concern over the Han population changing the Uyghur character of the region, though the Han and Hui Chinese mostly live in northern Xinjiang Dzungaria, and are separated from areas of historical Uyghur dominance south of the Tian Shan mountains (southwestern Xinjiang), where Uyghurs account for about 90% of the population.[89]

In general, Uyghurs are the majority in southwestern Xinjiang, including the prefectures of Kashgar, Khotan, Kizilsu, and Aksu (about 80% of Xinjiang's Uyghurs live in those four prefectures), as well as Turpan prefecture in eastern Xinjiang. Han are the majority in eastern and northern Xinjiang (Dzungaria), including the cities of Urumqi, Karamay, Shihezi and the prefectures of Changjyi, Bortala, Bayin'gholin, Ili (especially the cities of Kuitun), and Kumul. Kazakhs are mostly concentrated in Ili prefecture in northern Xinjiang. Kazakhs are the majority in the northernmost part of Xinjiang.
Click to expand...
Red is Dzungharia and Blue is the Tarim Basin.

9fd5eb9846297ecf2b44ae5b2806924f.png
Dzungar Khanate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dzungaria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tarim Basin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dzungar people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Chagatai Khanate

547cd98439667bdfce2314f92cc6dd0c.png
Here are maps on qing Xinjiang which was divided into Tianshan beilu (dzungharia) and tianshan nanlu (tarim basin, also called eastern turkestan)

c8eee14bfe12831dab1186667675c1df.png
79692adada645299c4f25338944547e5.jpg
dcacdb01795a0e566836b7d3b110b39c.jpg
Before the Qing dynasty conquered the Ming dynasty, Dzungharia was part of the Zunghar Oirat Khanate and Tarim was part of the Chagatai Khanate

084acaa54e724910ad7d38e077ddfa9c.jpg

Source: Rumors killer -- Spreading lies is bad, mmkay? | Page 4
 
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[Almost all of the social discontent (in Tibet) will "transformed" into political discontent.Tibet's "elites (formed by both Han and Tibetan)" often take advantage of the unstable political situation to ask for large sum of money, various benefits and social security from Beijing.]

-- 王力雄

Just replace "Tibet" with "Xinjiang" and "elites" with "some medias and some members here".
 
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Lol.

U.S.A carpet bombs millions muslims into stoneage and chaos , overthrows one stable nation after another, protects aggressive and destablizing rogue regimes in the ME and creates and arms one terror organization after another and its all for peace and democracy. If China deals with extremists and fundamentalist by civilian and civilized means to protect people its opression and controversial.

Washington Times. Nothing but regime controlled propaganda.
 
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its not like those atrocities didnt happen, but yes they should as muslims also protest against the Chinese.then again Pakistan aint the only muslim country who's silent regarding this matter.
When they dont show the same energy against china

Higher than mountain friend can do no wrong;)
So relegion come frist when some one needs it to come frist
 
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See ... Pakistanis won't say anything about these grave attacks on their muslim brothers in Xinjiang .


According to your logic, Pakistanis should protest to the West for bombing their ISIS muslim brothers

Its true. The chinese are killing uyghur muslims from very long time
but what can **** do here?
just like drones killing pakis.. And **** govt can't do anything..

Why should Pakistanis support terrorist ?
 
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hmm, i think fair enough

Essentially it's just not allowing Uyghur terrorists to organize in any way. Chinese Muslims have been free to worship for centuries and even spread Islam to parts of Southeast Asia.
 
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According to your logic, Pakistanis should protest to the West for bombing their ISIS muslim brothers



Why should **** support terrorist ?


if Uighurs are terrorist for you then mofos who throw stones during relief and rescue efforts are terrorists according to us.

Look at his statement @atawolf @Neptune turkish members?
 
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Essentially it's just not allowing Uyghur terrorists to organize in any way. Chinese Muslims have been free to worship for centuries and even spread Islam to parts of Southeast Asia.
but these Uyghur Muslims, they cant all be terrorists, right?
 
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