Xinjiang Province: News & Discussions

[Dubious]

Title is misleading restrictions are only for government employees and students in Xinjiang, everyone else can fast.

People unwilling to do their homework are the one easily misled!

 

[-SINAN-]

Students should be allowed to fast however government employees no, they joined the CPC which they must their oath of staying nonreligious otherwise they should leave the party and can fast as much as they want.

I didn't knew that, government employes should be. non-religious.... if they have accepted their conditions then they have no right to fast then.

But being non-religous for being a government official isn't right in my opinion.

Realistically noting will happen other than some terrorist attacks, China won't leave Xinjiang because of someones opinion or terror attack, Han Chinese are the majority there, and it will increase with migration, by 2020 the Han population will rise nearly to 60%.

Well good luck then.

 

[Gautam]

Its okay since its China. No big deal....

 

[Raphael]

@Hu Songshan

Did you delete my post?

 

[Sasquatch]

I didn't knew that, government employes should be. non-religious.... if they have accepted their conditions then they have no right to fast then.

But being non-religous for being a government official isn't right in my opinion.


Well good luck then.

Government employees can fast as much as they want after they leave the party, my opinion the students should be allowed to however this rule of no religion is set for party, CPC employees are to be focused on China's development and economy and noting will hinder hat not religion meaning all religions Christianity and Buddhism as well, majority seem to have no problem with it.

@Hu Songshan

Did you delete my post?

Yes, Refrain going off topic.

 

[B+ Dracula]

Nopes .. the only difference is .. the french thing come all over the media and internet.. that is why so many protest .. to be honest how many times u have seen that on national TV??? or any news? I THINK I AM WELL INFROMED BUT EVEN I DNT KNW MUCH ABOUT THEM
Btw my indian friend .. Money and numbers dont scare us ..we are Nut Jobs, we dont look at national intrest in everythng .. we stand up for people we supports .. there are many examples in recent decades as well ..we would have worried so much about national intrest for about messing with super powers .. we would have given up kashmir along ago and russia would have been still in Afghanistan

Like Cold War Era, We risk our integrity under the Nose of OUTRAGEOUS RED BEAR,
Finally, 26 States Emerge from USSR mostly muslims & all muslims are TURKS.....and now 67 Million muslim Turks living PEACEFULLY....
@Sinan cares about result not about struggle, timing, sacrifice.....

@Sinan, my friend, Armed Forces officers for decades were not allowed to offer prayers, let alone fast.........their wives denied the right to veil........ same was true for many universities where even a mosque was not allowed...... anyone even with a remotely religious look was followed by MIT......... foods at universities were contaminated for other reasons........ people disappeared for no reason at all......... this all happened in Turkey......... along with millions of other things.......
Let's not get into state policies of China.......... we know that they may not be perfect, however, essential to integrity of state of China from foreign elements, who wish nothing less than total disintegration of it, by using religion or other covert means.
Stable China is not only good for us, but for rest of humanity........... a unipolar world, where Uncle Sam gets to do whatever it wants is bad bad bad......... trust you me, even bad for Turkey.......... China maybe humanities last hope to have a sane world order.......... it isn't there yet, however, it will eventually get there in a decade or so.........

China is five times the size of Europe & vice versa in Population, Millions of muslims are living peacefully in China, except UGHER Area, and their problem need mature POLITICAL DECISION by taking everyone in confidence.
PLZ PRAY FOR TURKS - WHY THEY WONT BRING THAT INTO ACCOUNT

 

[-SINAN-]

Government employees can fast as much as they want after they leave the party, my opinion the students should be allowed to however this rule of no religion is set for party, CPC employees are to be focused on China's development and economy and noting will hinder hat not religion meaning all religions Christianity and Buddhism as well, majority seem to have no problem with it.

It still sounds weird... i mean the man can religious and genious at the same time...I mean look at Erdogan. He quadrupled country's GDP in 10 years and he is disturbingly religious.

Or is it like you ask your officials to not do their religious practices while they are at work. Or you completely forbid them to belong any religion at all ?

cares about result not about struggle, timing, sacrifice.....

Nope, i said reason.

 

[kalu_miah]

All good points except taking lesson from Turkey. With their present sectarian, neo-ottomanist and racist right-wing government, China should stay away from them on anything pertaining to its own domestic issues.

Other than that, especially the point quoted above, I think on the agenda, already. The whole point the New Modern Silk Road is to put Xinjiang at the center of Asiatic trade, hence, the diverse make-up of the region will play the catalizer to provide extended bridges between China and the Rest of Central/West Asia and the Europe.

I guess China will prioritize economic development but, as sensitive about sovereignty as it is, I do not see Beijing talking to others about its own problems -- especially given the international nature of Xinjiang terrorism.

At the end of the day, there is one dominant culture in China and others are expected to adopt it, including the language. Those who feel not belonging should leave, really; there is no point in causing oneself or others harm. Religion is a touchy issue and the Chinese culture will not become so much after-life oriented or allow some external rules to regulate mundane issues. The Uighur have to adopt and conform.

Chinese culture is inherently secular. This cannot change. Uighur will have to separate religion and church from politics, national education and defence. Otherwise I do not see them to enjoy the fruits of China's development.

Agreed on the Silk road project and the role of Xinjiang in this project.

About Xinjiang terrorism, the whole idea of SCO initially was to develop a multilateral platform of cooperation between many nations to address international terrorism problems like this. When the problem is getting bigger in recent months and in past year, I would say that there definitely is some drawback in China's current approach and strategy.

One problem I see is the following:
- the US and even India are officially secular countries, but separation of church and state does not mean reduction of personal freedom for practicing their own religion
- both of the above states do not interfere with personal space of people to practice their religion as much as China
- China as a one party much more authoritarian system, is expected not to give as much freedom, but people will compare and make this an issue, they will inevitably say that look religious people have so much freedom in the West or even in much poorer country like India (even though large number of people get killed in communal Hindu-Muslim riots every few years), how come China do not provide the same rights?

Personally I do not see how giving these simple rights to people to practice their day to day religious rites can be threatening to the state. It is not like giving these rights will enhance their feeling for separatism some how, the effect I think will be exactly the opposite. If the Chinese planners think that way, that shows poor understanding of human nature on their part.

Also, I am all for Chinese language education for all minority population as this will help them integrate to Chinese society better. In most developed countries people are proficient in more than one language. So they can still speak their own language at home and among themselves and practice it in spare time, but in work place and school, they should be using official Chinese language together with other Chinese population in integrated schools and work places. But even in these work places, one could easily have accommodation for different religious practices and if the state makes it a priority, it will only generate praise and feeling of gratitude from the minority population and reduce any moral support among the population for separatism and terrorist violence of separatist causes instigated by enemy states of China.

A friend is not someone who will blindly agree to what you say, but a better friend is someone who will try to understand your problems and give you constructive suggestions. I have spent some time in Xinjiang, I know how it is there from several years back, so I know this is a solvable problem for China if you have the right people making the plans and strategies. I am afraid the current crop of people there handling this problem do not have a good understanding of the nature of the problem. Force is always needed, but it has to be specific with subversive elements, but applying force to everyday general population to change their behavior and cultural practices will backfire on your state and provide propaganda ammunition to your enemy states. And you cannot deport 9 million Uyghurs, that is just not an available option in my opinion. Temporarily they will follow your orders, but remain resentful at heart.

The restriction on some religious practices, is this only limited to Uyghurs or does it apply to all Chinese religious minorities?

 

[-SINAN-]

On topic: Nice news.

Off topic:

LOL. Definitely. The kabab-eating trolls are probably in the worst shape in terms of their fracked-up foreign policy and hostile (kabab eaters do not even have embassy in several neighboring countries) regional environment.

Who are these trolls ?? Can you give me names ?

And regarding "worst shape"....

'm pretty sure kebab tastes way more better than dog stew

Mate, don't be unfair to our Chinese friends.... they have to eat whatever they find. How else they can feed 1 Billion stomachs ?

 

[GCTom]

Xinjiang is probably the most developed city in/near Central Asia. It is the focal city for the rest of China connects through to all other Central Asian countries. As I see it, when China and C.Asia develops more transportation and economical connections, Xinjiang will develop and grow much more in the future; similar to Shanghai/Shenzhen is today.

 

[Jlaw]

I still think there are only management and economic problems. Uyghur people are very honest, generous and simple.
The youth can't be terrorist without misleading. When the regional economy developed, I wonder whether Uyghurs would show sympathy to Turks like Turks did today?
As we Chinese all know that if they work hard enough it's easier to make money than Han. Many reports can prove my point.
And there are many rich men in Xinjiang.
Let's wait another economic miracle.

The gov't have tried, but some Uighurs are unwilling to learn our language and adapt. The opportunity is there, it is up to each individual to succeed. Success doesn't come knocking on one's door.

 

[terranMarine]

Xinjiang is probably the most developed city in/near Central Asia. It is the focal city for the rest of China connects through to all other Central Asian countries. As I see it, when China and C.Asia develops more transportation and economical connections, Xinjiang will develop and grow much more in the future; similar to Shanghai/Shenzhen is today.

Xinjiang is a province

 

[kalu_miah]

I would like PDF members (both Chinese and others) to take the time and go through these three research papers to make yourself familiar with the issue. Its a complex issue and without in depth knowledge, it is unfair to pass judgement on this issue:
http://www.psc.isr.umich.edu/pubs/pdf/rr13-810.pdf
http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1008&context=jmeil
http://www.eastwestcenter.org/fileadmin/stored/pdfs/PS015.pdf

It is possible that there are propaganda in the above, I will appreciate if you could please point out anything that is not accurate in the above papers and does not match with reality on the ground.

 

[GCTom]

Xinjiang is a province

Right, I meant Urumqi in the Autonomous Region of China.

 

[TaiShang]

the US and even India are officially secular countries, but separation of church and state does not mean reduction of personal freedom for practicing their own religion

Secularism can come in different hues. Often people make difference between Anglo-Saxon and French secularisms. China will retain the right to interpret its own secularism for sure. But, as far as I can see it, Chinese secularism does not want religion to be too visible in public places (government offices, schools, etc). Up until recently, Turkey, too, practiced this version of secularism although currently they are moving toward a Salafi-style state-sunni sect mixture. Again, China cannot take lecture from others' practices; if it works for them, well, praise to them.

both of the above states do not interfere with personal space of people to practice their religion as much as China

In the US, any religious (Islamic) activity carried out in the public is closely being monitored. Especially after the 9/11. It is mostly the minority behavior that defines the majority reaction. I guess it is sort of a cycle; violence breeds tougher measures, and tougher measures lead some into more desperate actions. But, here, it is not the state, with its absolute right to legal violence, to give in. The Chinese state cannot show weakness.

China as a one party much more authoritarian system, is expected not to give as much freedom, but people will compare and make this an issue, they will inevitably say that look religious people have so much freedom in the West or even in much poorer country like India (even though large number of people get killed in communal Hindu-Muslim riots every few years), how come China do not provide the same rights?

People have absolute right to practice religion in their private life. But, I think in China, public space is restrictied and it applies to all sort of religions and sects. The West, also, is not a unified space. For example, France has a tougher dress code in public area. Hence, it is not about China being authoritarian; every government is authoritarian by nature. It is about the rule of law that applies to everybody.

It is not like giving these rights will enhance their feeling for separatism some how, the effect I think will be exactly the opposite.

It depends, I think, on what sort of rights are being given. Public space rules can be relaxed (although I am against a gross display of religiousity in public) but it will hardly mean in China that they will be granted religious autonomy to run their own schools, to have their own separate civil law etc. The root of Xinjiang terrorism is that the terrorists do not simply want the right to cover their head or go to the mosque to pray (these rights are inherent to them already). They want rights for a seperate religious entity, such as running madrasas. This, in my opinion, will lead to more separatism and terrorism.

Also, let's keep in mind that, the few hard-core terror groups will not be impressed by any move by China as what they want is a separate political entity of their own. You may compare this with ISIS.

The restriction on some religious practices, is this only limited to Uyghurs or does it apply to all Chinese religious minorities?

It applies to everybody. Hence the demolition of churches without licence. In China religion is regulated by the state and state-sanctioned religious personalities. It may not be left to the wish of each religious groups. (Still in Turkey, all friday sermons are unified and state-sanctioned. You may not just go up there and speak your mind. On many instances, through friday sermons, the government propagates itself, legitimizes its policies. China will certainly not become like this; but, people, sooner or later, have to learn themselves how to be moderate, modern, and secular-minded while observing their faith in their personal lives and carrying out acts of goodness like community work and charity).