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Xinjiang Province: News & Discussions

Apparently Muslim lifestyles and cistoms are hindrance to progress.

Muslims should give up arab tribal ccustoms and. maybe bring out an updated version of quran to fit into han customs

yea you probably left indian culture and traditions and got adopted american western culture..

start celebrating Xmas instead of holi :D

and women should give up sari
 
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I never said that you are disrespecting Muslims. I was trying to find the reasons why you relate the progress of a society with their dress code or with beard or mustache. If Muslim countries got declined today then it was not because of beard or because of wearing certain clothes. when they were on peak then they were wearing same stuffs

Progress of any society never depend on what they wear/eat or whether keep beard or are clean shaved. Newton would remain progressive or intelligent even if he was wearing turban or had short hair or even bald :D

Well you just nailed it on the head, cause Muslims have been wearing this since their PEAK, would you say the peak is Ottoman? Or around the time of defeating Crusades, or defeating mongols? Either way, that was a long time ago.

Thinking needs to be changed, the cloth by it self does nothing and it is true it matters little what one wears except for safety to factory work or something.

However, the cloth symbolizes old ideas and everything old. That's why China and Japan almost completely destroyed their own culture to become world powers.

Would a clean shaven and suit wearing Arab person not be seen as a person that's progressive? A person with knowledge? A person that's capable?
@Da-Bang
I never said to fit into Han custom, and Suits are not invented in China or cars, or condos. I'm saying to fit into the main stream of the society, is that not the wish of most people?
 
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Well you just
@Da-Bang
I never said to fit into Han custom, and Suits are not invented in China or cars, or condos. I'm saying to fit into the main stream of the society, is that not the wish of most people?

It is the reaponsibility of a true Muslim to follow quran as they are made to believe it is word of god.

So if tomorow mainstream hans ask them to put China above islam they would not agree and revolt, simple.

Islam is supreme foe muslims and nationalisn is secondary.
 
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Well you just nailed it on the head, cause Muslims have been wearing this since their PEAK, would you say the peak is Ottoman? Or around the time of defeating Crusades, or defeating mongols? Either way, that was a long time ago.

Thinking needs to be changed, the cloth by it self does nothing and it is true it matters little what one wears except for safety to factory work or something.


However, the cloth symbolizes old ideas and everything old. That's why China and Japan almost completely destroyed their own culture to become world powers.

Would a clean shaven and suit wearing Arab person not be seen as a person that's progressive? A person with knowledge? A person that's capable?

I agree with bold part. I was referring to this when i mentioned word peak

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

they have not reached at peak because of dress code or beard and they have not got declined because of dress code or beard..these things are irrelevant as long as progress or decline of a society/civilization concerned ..tell me if they have any relevance

again you are saying china or japan got progress because they destroyed their culture but for me progress of china/japan has nothing to do with giving up their traditional clothes or start wearing suit tie or western clothes..economy, education,health care, productions, research, scientific inventions etc and all those things which are important for development of a country has nothing to do with dress code or with beard

It is the reaponsibility of a true Muslim to follow quran as they are made to believe it is word of god..
well It is the responsibility of a true hindus/sikhs/christian/bhuddist/jews to follow their scripture as they are made to believe it is word of God..

lol why just muslim :D
 
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I agree with bold part. I was referring to this when i mentioned word peak

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

they have not reached at peak because of dress code or beard and they have not got declined because of dress code or beard..these things are irrelevant as long as progress or decline of a society/civilization concerned ..tell me if they have any
relevance

again you are saying china or japan got progress because they destroyed their culture but for me progress of china/japan has nothing to do with giving up their clothes or start wearing suit tie or western clothes..economy, education,health care, productions, research, scientific inventions etc and all those things which are important for development of a country has nothing to do with dress code or with beard

One Chinese famous westernization supporter Kang Youwei said, if you can't even change you dress the least important of all reforms, than what does that say about the rest of the reforms.

He argued that western dress is clean and tighter and presents to the people that the country is on a new path, it gives people hope. He admit that other than appearance and a few advantages, the dress change is just for show.

However, he did add that if something minor like what to wear can't even be changed than how can something that would damage the privilege of the few be implemented?
 
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One Chinese famous westernization supporter Kang Youwei said, if you can't even change you dress the least important of all reforms, than what does that say about the rest of the reforms.

He argued that western dress is clean and tighter and presents to the people that the country is on a new path, it gives people hope. He admit that other than appearance and a few advantages, the dress change is just for show.

However, he did add that if something minor like what to wear can't even be changed than how can something that would damage the privilege of the few be implemented?

good philosophy and it's true but it should remain as a good philosophy only because there is another reality that govt should not interfere in peoples dress code and fashion unless it endanger security, brings shame and disturbance to social life(like nudity, vulgarity etc ) , or at institutions like army , where uniformity and a discipline in necessary.
 
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good philosophy and it's true but it should remain as a good philosophy only because there is another reality that govt should not interfere in peoples dress code and fashion unless it endanger security, brings shame and disturbance to social life(like nudity, vulgarity etc ) , or at institutions like army , where uniformity and a discipline in necessary.

Maybe we think differently, but like me most Chinese would be willing to sacrifice quite a lot for China to reach the top again. Hence the Chinese dream by Xi Jinping.

That western powers were able to manipulate Chinese politics and invade and sanction and whatever at will is an insult to every hard working Chinese. Chinese national anthem says pretty much this.

I get the whole human rights thing. What do you consider endangered security? Is Syria not endangered? Is India and co not in perpetual civil war? Is Iraq, not defeated and occupied? What do you consider Shame? China forced to give up Hong Kong and pay huge amounts of money for losing? Chinese treasures in the hands of westerners? India being a colony? The emperor of India being British? Yesterday, the west invade in the name of the monarchy, today they come, like Napoleon, with their "liberty," "freedom." When is it enough to say that we won't tolerate it, the fact that we are having this conversation in English and not our native tongue should be proof enough of how far our "personal freedom" can take us.
 
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Maybe we think differently, but like me most Chinese would be willing to sacrifice quite a lot for China to reach the top again. Hence the Chinese dream by Xi Jinping.

That western powers were able to manipulate Chinese politics and invade and sanction and whatever at will is an insult to every hard working Chinese. Chinese national anthem says pretty much this.

I get the whole human rights thing. What do you consider endangered security? Is Syria not endangered? Is India and co not in perpetual civil war? Is Iraq, not defeated and occupied? What do you consider Shame? China forced to give up Hong Kong and pay huge amounts of money for losing? Chinese treasures in the hands of westerners? India being a colony? The emperor of India being British? Yesterday, the west invade in the name of the monarchy, today they come, like Napoleon, with their "liberty," "freedom." When is it enough to say that we won't tolerate it, the fact that we are having this conversation in English and not our native tongue should be proof enough of how far our "personal freedom" can take us.

largely I have agree with most of the things you said, though It needs to be debated in relevant threads to come to a conclusion.

here we should stay to xijiang. it's true that America used every tool, every platform available to get what they want from other countries, they always had double standards.
Indian principle is unity in diversity, it think that is possible in China also.what harm wilt come if people are allowed to dress and practice their religion at their will and freedom ? why ask for such an un necessary sacrifice, which is counter productive ?
who ever raise separatist slogans and create law and problem can be dealt with iron first, and China has more than required force and will to do so, and they face no opposition in doing so, unlike India where we have to deal with multiple regulators and opposition.
I see only advantages in allowing diversity.
1. it builds confidence and loyalty in Muslims in the region.
2. once they feel their freedom is not taken away most people will settle down, and it reduces the scope of America or any other external powers to create trouble in the area by arming or funding them or by raising the issue in international forums.
3. securing the rights of Muslims will bring China closer to Arab nations and Pakistan, terror trouble from pak will be reduced.

I think I missed a point . endanger security means if people with full face cover Rome around the city/country the it helps terrorists,smugglers, or every body who do something illegal. even if you have a security camera footage, you can't do anything because his /her face is covered.
 
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I know that many Muslim groups in China have no problem with Han or vice versa. The issue with Uighurs is more complex than just religion; it involves ethnicity, culture, etc.

The City of Yining banning certain Islamic practices was a very stupid move because it turns the conflict into a religious conflict and plays straight into the hands of extremists.



The Uighurs don't have any voice in the Chinese media to present their side of the story. I agree that they should not seek secession, but their legitimate concerns about discrimination and cultural encroachment should be given due consideration instead of being brushed under the carpet.

Right now, it seems the Chinese media narrative is one-sided.

The City of Yining doesn't make a policy of minorities, period. What information you got from non Chinese is false. Uyghurs' beards, dresses or customs are all preserved among them in China.

Uyghurs believed, based on support of English, Russian and the Westerners, that they can establish an independent country in China. That's absolutely impossible, period. As a minority in China, they have very short history, thay are not natives and they have problems with the natives. They can't get alone with Hans and other native minorities including muslims of other ethnicity.

As I see it, if you guys are sympathetic to them, just take an effort to receive them. Not all uyghurs want to leave China...
 
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China's grip on Xinjiang Muslims
by Quentin Sommerville ("BBC News," November 29, 2005)

Urumqi, China - The young men studying at the Islam College in Urumqi, near China's western border, sit ramrod straight listening intently to their teacher.
Most hope one day to become imams in the many mosques of the Muslim-dominated Chinese region of Xinjiang.
"I believe in Islam, I came here to deepen my faith, to learn more," said 24-year-old, Bolo Alashankur.
"I learnt about Islam at home, from my family, but now I've come to the college for formal training," he said.
But learning about Islam is difficult here. Almost 2,000 miles from the capital, Beijing, the curriculum of the Islam College must be approved by the ruling Communist Party. Imams must attend political education camps - the authorities even dictate which version of the Koran should be used.
Ethnically Turkic Muslims, mainly in Xinjiang
Made bid for independent state in 1940s
Sporadic violence in Xinjiang since 1991
Uighurs worried about Chinese immigration and erosion of traditional culture
Human rights groups accuse China of conducting a campaign of repression against its Muslim minority, especially in Xinjiang. Despite a promise of religious freedom guaranteed in the constitution, in practical terms, few are at liberty to practise their faith as they would like.
China's war on terror is concentrated on Xinjiang. The province borders eight separate countries. Foreign fighters, including members of the Taliban, have been captured here.
At a press conference, Communist Party boss Wang Lequan warned that the province was under attack.
"In Xinjiang the separatists, religious extremists and violent terrorists are all around us - they're very active. We deal with these criminals using the law. In China, endangering national security is the number one crime. We have to crack down on it severely," he said.
Excuse
But others have accused China of muddying the waters between religious extremism and religious freedom. The authorities are just as worried about the threat from within as from outside.
"Fear is definitely pervasive in Xinjiang," said Nicolas Becquelin of pressure group Human Rights in China.
"People from the Uighur community are very much at risk of being arrested, detained, tortured or sentenced to labour camps for anything the government equates to separatist feelings, or for holding religious activities," he said.
At the central mosque in Urumqi, the sights and sounds are not entirely Muslim. The old mosque was knocked down a few years ago and replaced by a handsome brick building. But when it was rebuilt, it came with the addition of a shopping mall. Now the faithful pray above a KFC and next to a Carrefour supermarket.
Those around the mosque are afraid to speak. Uighur men and women have been imprisoned for simply speaking to foreign journalists.
The BBC was monitored by undercover policemen for most of our time in Xinjiang. We slipped away briefly and spoke to a Uighur who was unhappy about the redevelopment.
"It really isn't appropriate," he said. "We come here to worship - but sometimes we can't hear our prayers because of the music and singing from the bazaar."
Life is difficult for Muslims in Xinjiang, he said, warning that he could get into trouble for speaking to the BBC.
"It's getting more and more difficult for us to earn money now. Uighurs are doing anything they can to make a living - there's no alternative," he said.
Northern Xinjiang is rich and fertile, and it has oil. But Uighurs enjoy little of its riches, especially since China has flooded the province with Han Chinese. In 1950 Uighurs were 94% of the population - they are now less than half.
This ethic dilution is denied by officials such as Yahfu Wumar, director of Urumqi's Religious and Ethnics Affairs Committee.
"There's very little difference in the ethnic balance between now and the early 1950s," he said.
"The central government established the "Go West" policy to bridge the economic gap between east and west China. It has brought entrepreneurs here - but it certainly isn't an issue of moving Han people to Xinjiang," he said.
One of the few places where Uighur culture is celebrated in Urumqi is at a folk performance for tourists. But it is another fabrication - the gaudy costumes include glittering cowboy hats and most of the songs are sung in Chinese, not Uighur.
Beijing says its priority is to stop religious extremism and terrorism in this far-off province.
But critics say it is criminalizing an entire race of people, and that this repression will only radicalize those who want the freedom to pray and the chance to share in China's new-found riches.


China's grip on Xinjiang Muslims - WorldWide Religious News
 
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One Chinese famous westernization supporter Kang Youwei said, if you can't even change you dress the least important of all reforms, than what does that say about the rest of the reforms.

He argued that western dress is clean and tighter and presents to the people that the country is on a new path, it gives people hope. He admit that other than appearance and a few advantages, the dress change is just for show.

However, he did add that if something minor like what to wear can't even be changed than how can something that would damage the privilege of the few be implemented?

You want the destruction of traditional Han culture!
 
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One Chinese famous westernization supporter Kang Youwei said, if you can't even change you dress the least important of all reforms, than what does that say about the rest of the reforms.

He argued that western dress is clean and tighter and presents to the people that the country is on a new path, it gives people hope. He admit that other than appearance and a few advantages, the dress change is just for show.

However, he did add that if something minor like what to wear can't even be changed than how can something that would damage the privilege of the few be implemented?

My friend we both have two different opinions on this issue because for me you can make progress without changing your clothes or without giving up your identity/culture or without looking like westerners. There is a difference between modernization and westernization. I have nothing against western clothes because i also wear these clothes by choice but it don't change anything about my personality. Wearing Pakistani or English dress don't contribute anything towards my progress. We can wear westerner clothes but still you and me will look different because of our different race/ethnicity/skin color.

If talibans start wearing suit tie or start shaving their beard then would they become developed ? answer is No. If western men start wearing salwar kameez or start keeping beard then would it stop their progress ? Answer is NO. I appreciate diversity and we may not call ourselves different if there is no difference in us. You don't need to copy anyone else as long as dress or look is concerned. People should be free to wear what they feel like wearing . They should try to please themselves not others. These are personal choices so what we are going to do next..give up Chinese/Pakistani food and start eating western foods for progress

Personally I don't want to be like anyone else because I like that I am unique in many ways. I like to see different religions, cultures, heritages, unique clothing and ways of life out there. There have been so many people who have stepped outside of the box or been recognized as a maverick for something they did that was different. People should be able to come together to celebrate the differences of each others.
 
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My friend we both have two different opinions on this issue because for me you can make progress without changing your clothes or without giving up your identity/culture or without looking like westerners. There is a difference between modernization and westernization. I have nothing against western clothes because i also wear these clothes by choice but it don't change anything about my personality. Wearing Pakistani or English dress don't contribute anything towards my progress. We can wear westerner clothes but still you and me will look different because of our different race/ethnicity/skin color.

If talibans start wearing suit tie or start shaving their beard then would they become developed ? answer is No. If western men start wearing salwar kameez or start keeping beard then would it stop their progress ? Answer is NO. I appreciate diversity and we may not call ourselves different if there is no difference in us. You don't need to copy anyone else as long as dress or look is concerned. People should be free to wear what they feel like wearing . They should try to please themselves not others. These are personal choices so what we are going to do next..give up Chinese/Pakistani food and start eating western foods for progress

Personally I don't want to be like anyone else because I like that I am unique in many ways. I like to see different religions, cultures, heritages, unique clothing and ways of life out there. There have been so many people who have stepped outside of the box or been recognized as a maverick for something they did that was different. People should be able to come together to celebrate the differences of each others.

So pretty much you just read the middle part of my post and ignore the rest where I said the cloth is not the point, it's the symbol of change.

I didn't want to come out and just say it, because I think that Muslims take religion very seriously and I didn't want to appear racist or offend anyone, but the thing Kang youwei really wanted to change was the backwardness of the Chinese people before 1900s. The thing the cloth implies is that when your cloth changed, your way of life goes with it.

So what I'm really saying is believe in Muslim, but don't take it word for word. Don't let it hinder progress, notice how the west is no longer a christian state even though they are still christian. Notice how China rose so fast when the cultural revolution destroyed any religion left in the already non existent religious beliefs of the Chinese people.

Bottom line I'm just saying what I see from an outsider.

@type 053D
That already happened. Where have you been the last 100 years? Truthfully it was gone when the mongols invaded, and the Ming was started by a peasant, the Qing is another barbarian, the last truely Han dynasty was Song. That was a long time ago.
 
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once again I have proved that it's not by looking at the merit and nature of things but by mere like or dislike to a certain country /people which drives the opinion of many members out here, it is not good for a healthy discussion. I hope everybody will take not of the situation here. thanks.
 
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