Xinjiang Province: News & Discussions

[Jayanta]

You mean when the Soviets backed Separatists in Xinjiang from '43 to '49 to sell the idea of an Independent Uighur State that had been a part of China or Chinese Empires since the Tang Dynasty ?

If you want to use Tang dynasty as the benchmark for China's occupation of Xinjiang...
Tang dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Judging by that century map....most of Afghanistan and Pakistan should be Indian territory. So should be Malaysia, Cambodia, Indonesia etc. It's modern era...one cannot claim a territory based on Medieval era rulers. The world map would look way different if you set 700 AD as the benchmark for world map.
Why not take a step back and imagine Mongolia claiming parts of China and Russia citing Chengiz Khan....Greece claiming areas up to India citing Alexander the great.

 

[terranMarine]

If you want to use Tang dynasty as the benchmark for China's occupation of Xinjiang...
Tang dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Judging by that century map....most of Afghanistan and Pakistan should be Indian territory. So should be Malaysia, Cambodia, Indonesia etc. It's modern era...one cannot claim a territory based on Medieval era rulers. The world map would look way different if you set 700 AD as the benchmark for world map.
Why not take a step back and imagine Mongolia claiming parts of China and Russia citing Chengiz Khan....Greece claiming areas up to India citing Alexander the great.

What's modern era? At the time of Emperor Qin it was considered modern times, at the time of Tang Dynasty it was considered modern times, at the time of Ming Dynasty it was considered modern times. Xinjiang has been part of China since Tang Dynasty now what are you going to do about it? Don't like it? Why don't you go support terrorists and help them separate Xinjiang rather sitting comfortably at home typing at your desk criticizing China for occupying Xinjiang. You seem OK with Europeans occupying Australia and America don't ya?

 

[TaiShang]

Why don't you go support terrorists and help them separate Xinjiang rather sitting comfortably at home typing at your desk criticizing China for occupying Xinjiang.

That's the fate awaiting for the terrorists and terrorist-lovers. And protection for the good citizens of China regardless of their historical background, creed, religion, and local language.

Enjoy the beating.

Inside look at China’s Special Police gear (Global Times)

Many Chinese mainland cities, such as Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou, have strengthened their counter-terrorism efforts by deploying armed police in heavily-trafficked areas since May.

Special police specially trained for hostage and terrorist situations are armed to the teeth, equipped with more than 300,000 yuan ($48,150) in gear weighing no less than 15 kilograms, according to a report of Hong Kong-based Wen Wei Po.

Below are brief introductions and photos of the weaponry, armor and equipment carried by China’s special police forces.

Special Police Equipment

 

[Nan Yang]

If you want to use Tang dynasty as the benchmark for China's occupation of Xinjiang...
Tang dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Judging by that century map....most of Afghanistan and Pakistan should be Indian territory. So should be Malaysia, Cambodia, Indonesia etc. It's modern era...one cannot claim a territory based on Medieval era rulers. The world map would look way different if you set 700 AD as the benchmark for world map.
Why not take a step back and imagine Mongolia claiming parts of China and Russia citing Chengiz Khan....Greece claiming areas up to India citing Alexander the great.

Please provide source.
India never rule over Malaysia, Indonesia nor Cambodia. Do not equate Hindu influence as ruling.

 

[Snomannen]

If you want to use Tang dynasty as the benchmark for China's occupation of Xinjiang...
Tang dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Judging by that century map....most of Afghanistan and Pakistan should be Indian territory. So should be Malaysia, Cambodia, Indonesia etc. It's modern era...one cannot claim a territory based on Medieval era rulers. The world map would look way different if you set 700 AD as the benchmark for world map.
Why not take a step back and imagine Mongolia claiming parts of China and Russia citing Chengiz Khan....Greece claiming areas up to India citing Alexander the great.

Mongolia is not even the heir of Yuan Dynasty.

 

[Armstrong]

If you want to use Tang dynasty as the benchmark for China's occupation of Xinjiang...
Tang dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Judging by that century map....most of Afghanistan and Pakistan should be Indian territory. So should be Malaysia, Cambodia, Indonesia etc. It's modern era...one cannot claim a territory based on Medieval era rulers. The world map would look way different if you set 700 AD as the benchmark for world map.
Why not take a step back and imagine Mongolia claiming parts of China and Russia citing Chengiz Khan....Greece claiming areas up to India citing Alexander the great.

Most of Afghanistan & Pakistan was British Indian territory & before that the Mughal Empire which would arguably give Turkiye rights over it least of all India !

Furthermore I did not say based on the Tang Dynasty - I said 'since' the Tang its been a part of China & only in '43-'49 did Soviet backed Separatists proclaimed a free Uighur Country before they were crushed & Chinese territory reclaimed by China !

 

[jkroo]

Thank you for your response. I just try to propose these questions to learn more about your people.

#1 It's weired that your PM Erdogan has the history of support terrorist attack and criticize China government. That's why I propose this problem.
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Turkey attacks China 'genocide'
Something you people maybe don't know is that Uyghurs are free to move around all Chinese territory. Around 1% of Uyghurs lived outside Xinjiang for hundred years. There are Uyghurs living in Hunan - a Chinese central province from Ming dynasty. There are Han living in Xinjiang for thousands years. There are ethnic Han&Mongol lived in Uzbekistan and other central asia countries for more than 700 years.

Actually, we have more closer ties with Uyghurs than your people. But I am also glad that you call Uyghurs as kin. Frankly, this is something like historic bitterness or sadness. You know we both have historic connections such as Qin dynasty, Sui dynasty, Tang dynasty, Song dynasty, Yuan dynasty and Ming dynasty. Even 60 years ago, we fight a war in Korean peninsula.

As I know, there are only Turkey and Al Qaeda publicly support these kind of activities(You can find these points from BBC news site). I know there are around 30 thousand ethnic Uyghur Turks and many of them support their own people without any reasons. I only hope you people don't support your terrorist kin. If you think it's inevitable then just do it and I still believe the history will repeatedly occurs.


#5 I think there are some discrimination and historic issues involved. You have a glory history in European land so there are some historic awareness/sadness among them.


#9 The misunderstanding will continue if no mutual respects exists. A ETIM flag will never anger me and we all know the so-called 'nation' will never ever come true. I only treat this action as a disrespect behavior and I think it's a bottom line for understanding.

We Chinese as a group are mature enough to bear any criticism and different views. We have our own judgement.for what you talk and what you do.

Still, I am willing to know more about your people. To me, the reason is very simple, we all have the brother country - Pakistan.
Thank you very much.

I'm always open for a creative discussion. let's begin answering the questions.



No


We are very nationalist people, we deeply care about all the Turkics around the world. Leaving aside terrorist.... no Turk will show any mercy over a terrorist regardless of his ethnicity or religion.


A simple answer won't cut this. Let me explain.

There was a terror organization group named ASALA. Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They targetted and killed many Turkish diplomats. Conducted terrorist attacks.

Turkish deep government which can be described as Turkish Gladio. Formed a group named "Grey Wolfs" from Ultranationalist Turks Grey Wolves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Members of the Grey Wolves scattered to foreign cities... In one night Grey Wolves killed all of the leaders of ASALA terror organization in a simultaneous attack over the different cities in the world. Hence ASALA literally finished that night.

After that attack... some of the members gone rogue... they killed Turkish Journalist, Politicians and Activist from left wing parties. Some of them became notorious mafia.
Some of their activities

• The Grey Wolves became the first foreign militant organization to participate in PLO training in Lebanon.
• On a global scale, the Grey Wolves are suspected to have been responsible for numerous political assassinations and disappearances of Turkish and Kurdish human rights activists, and are known to have ties with the Turkish mafia.
• The Grey Wolves have also raised funds for Chechen guerrilla separatists, whom they consider their brothers.
• In 1996 the Grey Wolves were involved in an attack on a protest of Greek Cypriots against the occupation of Cyprus and in the murder of Tasos Isaac.One protester, Tasos Isaac, was beaten to death.
• In December 1996, the Grey Wolves attacked left-wing students and teachers at Istanbul University, under police sanction.

To conclude, it's believed that Grey Wolves had been given support from government until the ASALA assasinations. After that assasination, they got out of control and gone completely rogue and harmed Turkey in various ways.

Other than that we had never given any terrorist group any support.


No.


EU didn't rejected Turkey and we are still a candidate country. We are doing some chapters for membership.

But... we all know that EU won't let us join the union. Reason is very simple. EU is being ruled with France-Germany coalition. because of their combined citizen number (somewhere near 150 million.)
If Turkey enters EU a very possible Turkey-UK coalition will end France-Germany hegomony over Europe. Hence France-Germany opposes our cadidate whereas UK supports us.


Kurds are our brothers, we lived peacefully together on these lands for 1000 years.
ISIS are takfiri terorists which poses a great danger to regions stability. They must be eradicated.


If we took aside Uyghur Issue.

I appreciate China very much. China helped us with ToT in many military projects whereas our so-called Western allies tried to hinder us from gaining ToT.


maybe, i don't know.....



Pakistan is our brother state. We are have very good relations with them. They have our support.

For Uyghurs... there is not much we can do for the Uyghurs from the other side of the planet... I think we should ease up the immigration on Uyghurs and welcome them in our country.



You can kill all of the terrorists, good keep doing that. But opression of our Uyghur kin is a different issue.

 

[-SINAN-]

s I know, there are only Turkey and Al Qaeda publicly support these kind of activities(You can find these points from BBC news site). I

No such thing.

In short.. also in BBC thread.. Turkey showing support for Uyghurs. You tend to put Turkey and Al-Qeada together. Make no mistake. I'm saying this again and again and again. We don't support terrorists. We are concerned about Uyghurs. And that's it.

Uyghurs are a nation for us. They have their own identity.It shıuld be known like.that.

Best regards.

 

[TaiShang]

We have our own judgement.for what you talk and what you do.

Exactly. The fact that most people keep silent does not mean they have no opinion of others. At times, it is just indifference or lack of interest. However, people do read and watch things and learn stuff, right or wrong.

Hence, the point of this thread is not to change people's mind, but only share information.

When the first post was made on this thread, no mention of Turkey or Turks was made and they did not come to the mind of the OP even for once. There was not an expectation that it was going to lead to a furious response. We always think whatever happens inside China's national borders/areas is of China's own. That basic understanding and respect has to be established if we are to continue on constructive dialogue.

Until and unless an Uighur starts to live in Turkey, it is our business how to deal with them and how to treat each other. That's the basic international rule: You do not intervene in my sovereignty, we do not intervene in yours. If you do intervene in mine, I reserve my right to disturb your internal peace and external security. There are a million way to do this -- that China does not do it does not mean it is incapable of doing it.

But, China would not move a finger if an Uighur becomes Turkish citizen and starts living there or somewhere else. Then, it is no longer in China's jurisdiction. Then it is none of China's business what Turkey does with Uighurs or Kurds. But China will not take lecturing. It does not take lecturing from the US; how come anyone believes it will take lecturing from Turkey. Most probably, it will lead to an even harsher stand; it will backfire, blowback.

Kinship, religious or ethnic affinity are archaic norms that have been trumped down with the rise of the notion of nation state. Crusade or Jihad is no longer feasible; there is no Christendom as there is no Islam-dom. Pan-Turanism is as arcahic and old-fashioned as Pan-Europeanism or Pan-Arabism.

A Pan-(whatever) would be feasible only if nations as sovereigns agree on and that would not go beyond cultural and economic realms. No one will sacrifice national borders and the legitimacy of national rule. China will do everything in its power, inlcuding a nuclear armaggedon, but will not sacrifice, literally, I guarantee, an inch of sovereign territory.

 

[jkroo]

No such thing.

In short.. also in BBC thread.. Turkey showing support for Uyghurs. You tend to put Turkey and Al-Qeada together. Make no mistake. I'm saying this again and again and again. We don't support terrorists. We are concerned about Uyghurs. And that's it.

Uyghurs are a nation for us. They have their own identity.It shıuld be known like.that.

Best regards.

That BBC news is put here only for the evidence of Erdogan's claim. I am not willing to put Turkey and Al Qaeda together but I found that BBC put both together. You will find in it's news site though I don't like the west propaganda machine - BBC,CNN etc.

You used a vague and ambiguous words 'nation' but the 'ethnic group' is appropriate I think.

 

[-SINAN-]

That BBC news is put here only for the evidence of Erdogan's claim. I am not willing to put Turkey and Al Qaeda together but I found that BBC put both together. You will find in it's news site though I don't like the west propaganda machine - BBC,CNN etc.

You used a vague and ambiguous words 'nation' but the 'ethnic group' is appropriate I think.

Turkey's prime minister has described ethnic violence in China's Xinjiang region as "a kind of genocide".

"There is no other way of commenting on this event," Recep Tayyip Erdogan said.

He spoke after a night-time curfew was reimposed in Xinjiang's capital, Urumqi, where Muslim Uighurs and Han Chinese clashed last Sunday.

The death toll from the violence there has now risen from 156 to 184, China's state-run Xinhua news agency reports. More than 1,000 people were injured.

Turkey is secular but the population is predominantly Muslim and it shares linguistic and religious links with the Uighurs in China's western-most region.

Quentin Sommerville, BBC News, Urumqi
After Friday's prayers, a small group of Uighur Muslims marched along an Urumqi street demanding the release of men detained for their alleged role in last Sunday's riot.

A large number of riot police surrounded the group, they punched and kicked the protestors - one officer used his baton to beat one of the Uighurs. A number of foreign journalists had their equipment seized, some have been detained.

Earlier the group said they feared for their safety. There's no word from the authorities as to what happened to them.

In pictures: Closed mosques
New media openness
Q&A: China and the Uighurs


"The event taking place in China is a kind of genocide," Mr Erdogan told reporters in Turkey's capital, Ankara.

"There are atrocities there, hundreds of people have been killed and 1,000 hurt. We have difficulty understanding how China's leadership can remain a spectator in the face of these events."

The Turkish premier also urged Beijing to "address the question of human rights and do what is necessary to prosecute the guilty".

Mr Erdogan's comments came a day after Turkish Trade and Industry Minister Nihat Ergun urged Turks to boycott Chinese goods.

Beijing has so far not publicly commented on Mr Erdogan's criticism.

But it said that of the 184 people who died, 137 were Han Chinese.

Uighurs defiant

Earlier on Friday, the Chinese authorities reimposed a night-time curfew in Urumqi.

The curfew had been suspended for two days after officials said they had the city under control.

Mosques in the city were ordered to remain closed on Friday and notices were posted instructing people to stay at home to worship.

XINJIANG: ETHNIC UNREST
Main ethnic division: 45% Uighur, 40% Han Chinese
26 June: Mass factory brawl after dispute between Han Chinese and Uighurs in Guangdong, southern China, leaves two Uighurs dead
5 July: Uighur protest in Urumqi over the dispute turns violent, leaving 156 dead - most of them thought to be Han - and more than 1,000 hurt
7 July: Uighur women protest at arrests of menfolk. Han Chinese make armed counter-march
8 July: President Hu Jintao returns from G8 summit to tackle crisis

Taboo of ethnic tensions
Profile: Rebiya Kadeer
Xinjiang: Views from China
But at least two opened after crowds of Uighurs gathered outside and demanded to be allowed in to pray on the holiest day of the week in Islam.

"We decided to open the mosque because so many people had gathered. We did not want an incident," a policeman outside the White Mosque in a Uighur neighbourhood told the AP news agency.

After the prayers, riot police punched and kicked a small group of Uighurs protesters, who demanded the release of men detained after last Sunday's violence, the BBC's Quentin Sommerville says.

Meanwhile, the city's main bus station was reported to be crowded with people trying to escape the unrest.

Extra bus services had been laid on and touts were charging up to five times the normal face price for tickets, AFP news agency said.

"It is just too risky to stay here. We are scared of the violence," a 23-year-old construction worker from central China said.

The violence began on Sunday when a Uighur rally to protest against a deadly brawl between Uighurs and Han Chinese several weeks ago in a toy factory in southern Guangdong province turned violent.

Tensions have been growing in Xinjiang for many years, as Han migrants have poured into the region, where the Uighur minority is concentrated.

Many Uighurs feel economic growth has bypassed them and complain of discrimination and diminished opportunities

Here is the text of the article you have linked can you show me where in this article El-Qaeda and Turkey's names are mentioned together ???

Don't want to argue about what is a nation what is a ethnic group,, etc.. ..

 

[jkroo]

Here is the text of the article you have linked can you show me where in this article El-Qaeda and Turkey's names are mentioned together ???

Don't want to argue about what is a nation what is a ethnic group,, etc.. ..

I have answered you already. The only link I put it here just to prove your PM's claim.

About the news that Turkey and Al Qaeda are mentioned together. I found that BBC published in 21st July, 2009.

But it's astonishing that I can't search out this result including BBC China site. But there are many snapshots in Chinese sites.

You can claim that I can't backup my own sources quote from others. It's OK and this have nothing to do with Erdogan's claim. Right?

You can treat it as 'comment' from the third party on the issue that 'Turkey and Al Qaeda support ETIM terrorists'.

That BBC news is put here only for the evidence of Erdogan's claim. I am not willing to put Turkey and Al Qaeda together but I found that BBC put both together. You will find in it's news site though I don't like the west propaganda machine - BBC,CNN etc.

You used a vague and ambiguous words 'nation' but the 'ethnic group' is appropriate I think.

 

[-SINAN-]

I have answered you already. The only link I put it here just to prove your PM's claim.
About the news that Turkey and Al Qaeda are mentioned together. I found that BBC published in 21st July, 2009.
But it's astonishing that I can't search out this result including BBC China site. But there are many snapshots in Chinese sites.
You can claim that I can't backup my own sources quote from others. It's OK and this have nothing to do with Erdogan's claim. Right?
You can treat it as 'comment' from the third party on the issue that 'Turkey and Al Qaeda support ETIM terrorists'.

Most probably you'are mistaken..and there is no proof. (I'm really tired from saying this phrase)

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Also, people were saying that Turkey is a secular country for now but it will change in the future and stuff..... not sure if they said that in this thread or not.

 

[jkroo]

Most probably you'are mistaken..i not just show the proof. (I'm really tired from saying this phrase)

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Also, people we saying that Turkey is a secular country for now, it will change in the future and stuff..... not sure if in this thread or not.

Thank you for your information. A country is secular or not doesn't matter.

In 1980s a team of Pakistani went to my city and stayed in a tank factory for months.

They are very religious people and honored as trusted friends.

I will end the discussion here. Good luck.

 

[Jayanta]

Please provide source.
India never rule over Malaysia, Indonesia nor Cambodia. Do not equate Hindu influence as ruling.

Read about the Medieval India and Chola dynasty. Chola dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia