Would America Risk a Nuclear War with China over Taiwan?

[terranMarine]

When we said our home turf it means should a war break out the naval battle that ensue will take place in East China Sea / Taiwan Strait. and not in the Pacific Ocean. Too difficult to understand i suppose

 

[gambit]

To the silent readers...

According to the Chinese members of this military oriented forum, the Americans on this forum, of which contains members of the US Army, US Air Force, and US Navy, are stupid because we say the island of Taiwan is in the Pacific Ocean. And keep in mind that not one of the Chinese members served in the PLA.

Despite being given a technically impeccable source -- National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) -- that clearly explained the difference between a 'sea' and an 'ocean', plus a screenshot of a map that clearly shows Taiwan and the name 'North Pacific Ocean', the Chinese still insists the island of Taiwan is NOT in the Pacific Ocean.

Which part of the NOAA explanation...Seas are smaller than oceans and are usually located where the land and ocean meet....is incomprehensible ?

Taiwan is in the 'South China Sea', and the 'South China Sea' is part of the Pacific Ocean.

Here is what wiki says...

South China Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The South China Sea is a marginal sea that is part of the Pacific Ocean,...

It is not that difficult to find out the technical facts and exercise logical thinking.

But it is the Americans who are stupid...

 

[Oldman1]

Thanks for stating my point. Taiwan is not in Pacific Ocean and your map proved that. You are doing a self pwned.

 

[gambit]

Thanks for stating my point. Taiwan is not in Pacific Ocean and your map proved that. You are doing a self pwned.

Really...??? You still think you are correct ?

 

[Brainsucker]

The problem is you need to bring the ground force from China to Taiwan. And Individual PLA soldier can't fly to Taiwan and fight a ground war, you need to insert the Unit to Taiwan somehow, and that very much depending on How big of an Army you can transport and how big of an army you can support.

Indeed China have 2 millions strong PLA Ground Force, but that does not translate to all 2 Millions would send to capture Taiwan.

A.) How much your troop ship and transport plane can carry each load.

Don't take PLA as an example, take US Military as an Example, which is currently the greatest Army on the account of Sealift and Airlift Capability. US Military which have 300 Naval ship of all type which can transport about 200,000 Soldier each single trip and USAF current have about 500 Large Troop Carrier (222 C-17, 265 C-130H, 89 C-130J) which can take anywhere between 40,000 to 45,000 Troop.

List of Military Sealift Command ships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of active United States military aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, Even if PLA reaches this level of Lifting Ability (Which currently less than 1/10 to the US Sea and Air Lift Command), that mean for the first 5 hours (A round trip from China to Taiwan by sea), the Chinese can only land about 250,000 to Attack and Secure any objective. Which the first wave would face the full force of ROC Military, which currently have 300,000 active and 2 million reserve personnel. And that's if PLA can land and drop all its forces without any challenge, loses will happen to the first wave, either by sinking the Naval Transport by Submarine or Surface Ship or Downing of Air Transport with SAM or Fighters.

Then You can put a little less troop to the shore the second wave, then the third wave, then the fourth wave.

B.) Beside sending in force, you also have to consider the way to supply your force, meaning part of your sea/air lift power will be diverted to support the troops on ground by transporting food, ammunition, replacement parts, daily necessities, instead of carrying troop. You can keep sending in people to shore and when they finish what they brought with them, how do you supposes to carry the fight on when the 300 or so round you brought with expanded in the first hours??

C.) Beside Troop transport and Supply you also need to consider leaving a considerable force behind to Guard/Reserve

It's not about How PLA could and would take, but how can you justifies losing a great deal and quantity of men and equipment to recover a rouge province?? China is technologically advance than Taiwan, but still, they are not far behind, unlike Iraq and US, even so, the Coalition suffer 150,000 Casualty (included 25000 killed) you can imagine if China invade Taiwan, a near peer in an fortified Island position, you are talking about Casualty in Millions and that is BEFORE US Involvement

Ugh, I can't not agree with you. That's true. So except PRC want to flattened Taiwan (which is basically not in PRC agenda), it's hard to do it. But I still believe that PRC will attack Taiwan if they declare "De Jure" independent.

But, why PLA have to send their ground troop before the sea is safe?

 

[Beast]

Really...??? You still think you are correct ?

Left side of Taiwan is Taiwan strait and right side of Pacific Ocean. So how can it be in Pacific Ocean?if left, right , up and down of taiwan is all Pacific Ocean. Yes, you are in Pacific Ocean but is that the case for Taiwan?

Taiwan is in the edge not inside Pacific Ocean. So who is self pwned

Your answer is Taiwan is in Pacific Ocean which is false.

 

[gambit]

Thanks for stating my point. Taiwan is not in Pacific Ocean and your map proved that. Being at edge of pacific and inner of Pacific Ocean makes lot different.

What difference does it make ?

What is the difference between an ocean and a sea? - tellmewhyfacts

A sea, on the other hand, is usually smaller than an ocean (a division of an ocean)...

So according to you, if I am in my bedroom, I am not inside my house ?

The left of Taiwan is Taiwan strait and right is Pacific Ocean so how can Taiwan be inside Pacific Ocean? Taiwan is only 130km from mainland China and you can claim it's not China home turf . May I know what is the US territories next close to Taiwan?

The Pacific Ocean is our 'home turf' in the sense that we can move ANY-EFFING-WHERE we feel like it and everyone will get the eff out of our way.

 

[terranMarine]

Left side of Taiwan is Taiwan strait and right side of Pacific Ocean. So how can it be in Pacific Ocean?if left, right , up and down is all Pacific Ocean. Yes, you are in Pacific Ocean but is that the case for Taiwan?

Taiwan is in the edge not inside Pacific Ocean. So who is self pwned

Your answer is Taiwan is in Pacific Ocean which is false.

They assume the naval battle takes place in the Pacific Ocean and not in East China Sea / Taiwan Strait

 

[Oldman1]

Left side of Taiwan is Taiwan strait and right side of Pacific Ocean. So how can it be in Pacific Ocean?if left, right , up and down of taiwan is all Pacific Ocean. Yes, you are in Pacific Ocean but is that the case for Taiwan?

Taiwan is in the edge not inside Pacific Ocean. So who is self pwned

Your answer is Taiwan is in Pacific Ocean which is false.

I don't care if Taiwan is in the middle of the Pacific or at the edge of the Pacific. Ships can go north, south, east or west of Taiwan from the Pacific to other bodies of water, the U.S. Navy can do it.

They assume the naval battle takes place in the Pacific Ocean and not in East China Sea / Taiwan Strait

People assumed that the naval conflict between Britain and Germany will only be confined to the English channel.

 

[MastanKhan]

Would America Risk a Nuclear War with China over Taiwan? | The National Interest Blog

Probably if PRC attack ROC the US will come to save Taiwan. China wouldn't last too long against the US & Nato allies.

There will be no war---any strike on the U S assets would destroy U S economy---.

Just a war would put a damper. Americans stop spending in the first few months of war. Car sales drops down----business in the mall slows down---restaurant business goes up.

 

[terranMarine]

I don't care if Taiwan is in the middle of the Pacific or at the edge of the Pacific. Ships can go north, south, east or west of Taiwan from the Pacific to other bodies of water, the U.S. Navy can do it.



People assumed that the naval conflict between Britain and Germany will only be confined to the English channel.

I don't mind if the Taiwanese Navy go all the way deep into the Pacific or even to the Atlantic, PLAN can stick with our home turf and take over the island while the Taiwanese sailors enjoy their war games somewhere in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Oldman1]

I don't mind if the Taiwanese Navy go all the way deep into the Pacific or even to the Atlantic, PLAN can stick with our home turf and take over the island while the Taiwanese sailors enjoy their war games somewhere in the middle of nowhere.

So all that BS about carrier killers DF-21 hitting carriers in the Pacific and long range bombers that can hit Guam was a lie? I mean why make that up? After all you did stated that Americans will think the Pacific Ocean will be a place of naval conflict instead of the Taiwan Straits.

 

[terranMarine]

So all that BS about carrier killers DF-21 hitting carriers in the Pacific and long range bombers that can hit Guam was a lie? I mean why make that up?

So you believe it? Then why call it BS?

 

[Oldman1]

So you believe it? Then why call it BS?

DF-21 hasn't been tested to hit ships in the Pacific, hence to me its still BS but you stated it has such capability. Do you believe it? Do you believe that they will be used on carriers in the Pacific? But that would show that there is conflict in the Pacific Ocean. But why would you do it? Why hit the ships in the Pacific Ocean?

 

[Beast]

This is really incredible...That the Chinese members of this military oriented forum believes the island of Taiwan is NOT in the Pacific Ocean.

View attachment 219512

A 'sea' have been explained by technically impeccable sources such as NOAA to be a part of an ocean, as well as being a large body of water surrounded by land.

For the map above, the 'Sea of Japan' is a body of water that while physically connected to the greater Pacific Ocean, that body of water is partially surrounded by land masses, that of China and Japan. A ship that is inside the Sea of Japan is technically correct to also be in the Pacific Ocean because the Sea of Japan is physically connected to the Pacific Ocean. Same for any ship inside any of the many seas in the area, such as the 'South China Sea' or the 'Java Sea' or the 'Celebes Sea'.

Taiwan is near to China, so the body of water between China and Taiwan is called a 'strait', but Taiwan is very much connected to the Pacific Ocean. This does not require university level education to understand.

But the Chinese members of this forum insists that Taiwan is NOT in the Pacific Ocean.

How desperate is the need to defy Americans that you must deny technical facts and truths ?

Taiwan is on edge of Pacific Ocean. Hawaii is inside Pacific Ocean. There are hell lot different.

DF-21 hasn't been tested to hit ships in the Pacific, hence to me its still BS but you stated it has such capability. Do you believe it? Do you believe that they will be used on carriers in the Pacific? But that would show that there is conflict in the Pacific Ocean. But why would you do it? Why hit the ships in the Pacific Ocean?

You don't believe you can try.