Worldview: Pakistan's chief fear: India

[M.KHURRAM.KHAN [747 ARMY]]

Pakistan is sufferring from suicides bombbers because they are killing N.W.F.P peoples.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Pakistan is sufferring from suicides bombbers because they are killing N.W.F.P peoples.

Pakistan is not killing anyone without good reason.

The country's writ cannot be challenged.

 

[M.KHURRAM.KHAN [747 ARMY]]

Why pakistan taking part in the war against terrorists?

 

[vish]

Why pakistan taking part in the war against terrorists?

Duh! Because they are terrorists.

 

[M.KHURRAM.KHAN [747 ARMY]]

why after 9/11.they did not teasng pakistan.

 

[vish]

why after 9/11.they did not teasng pakistan.

They were always there and were always hurting a whole lot of countries.

9/11 = terrorists/freedom fighters/insurgents/etc. painting a big bull's eye on themselves and asking Uncle Sam to shoot.

 

[maqsad]

We all know who created the suicide bombers... let's not get there.

If you don't want to go there then don't mention it. Anyone can create a suicide bomber, all it takes is brainwashing and hypnotism which can also be helped by drugging the subject. Every major intelligence agency on the planet has the knowledge and the techniques available for that.

It doesn't take a genius to conclude that if India want's to destabilize and dismantle pakistan then it would be more than happy to use suicide bombers to do so. If any country wanted to do that to pakistan they would use suicide bombers because that technique is also anonymous if done right.

With regard to your assertion that we "bought" them, I'll ask why would we buy them? To achieve what? I agree with the HUMINT part, I also agree with the encircling part. I do not agree with the suicide bomber part for two reasons: (1) it does not achieve anything and (2) we love our place in the sun too much. We have marginalized Pakistan in Afghanistan, why would create mucks like suicide bombings?

(1) It achieves the weakening and destabilization of Pakistan

(2) It is anonymous and any perpetrator who has a place in the sun can deny all involvment. The reason that India has this place in the sun is due to media bias in the west, it can be taken advantage of because suicide bombings, if done right, are anonymous and some agency like RAW can outsource the operations with a black budget without any direct links to GOI. Both India and Afghanistan have the potential to benefit immensely by sending suicide bombers into Pakistan. Anyone wanting to destabalize pakistan will benefit, it's simple logic.

Further, I think I'm not getting what you're tryiong to say, though I have replied to your post.

Do let me know and please explain me your post in better detail if you think so too.

What exactly is there to explain? India and Afghanistan are both enemies and rivals of Pakistan and it is part of their unofficial foreign policy objective to destroy pakistan. The Afghans are a bit more honest than India because in 1947 they opposed the creation of Pakistan. Therefor when both countries want to destroy Pakistan they will use every single opportunity to do so including bombs and suicide bombers.

 

[maqsad]

... and why not ?

Indeed, why not? Humint will give RAW a big advantage when grappling with ISI and encroaching into Pakistan through the western border. Who would doubt that? No reason to leave it out.

 

[matti]

"Not at all - building roads, hospitals, other crucial infrastructure, training the Afghan army etc. etc. "

YEH RIGHT!

 

[vish]

If you don't want to go there then don't mention it. Anyone can create a suicide bomber, all it takes is brainwashing and hypnotism which can also be helped by drugging the subject. Every major intelligence agency on the planet has the knowledge and the techniques available for that.

It doesn't take a genius to conclude that if India want's to destabilize and dismantle pakistan then it would be more than happy to use suicide bombers to do so. If any country wanted to do that to pakistan they would use suicide bombers because that technique is also anonymous if done right.

Give me one example where India has created a suicide bomber? I mean, a suicide bomber, and not seperatist movements.

Further, why would we want to destabilize Pakistan? So that more Pakistani youth get unemployed and start thinking jihad is not such a bad career proposition? India has no interst in detsabilizing Pakistan, as far as poking Pakistan (like you have done to us as well in the past) is concerned, that is a different matter.

(1) It achieves the weakening and destabilization of Pakistan

How? A few bombs here and there and Pakistan is week? Further, what is happening in Pakistan is a very unique form of tribal warfare.

We hate the Taliban as much as you do... why would we use them?

(2) It is anonymous and any perpetrator who has a place in the sun can deny all involvment. The reason that India has this place in the sun is due to media bias in the west, it can be taken advantage of because suicide bombings, if done right, are anonymous and some agency like RAW can outsource the operations with a black budget without any direct links to GOI. Both India and Afghanistan have the potential to benefit immensely by sending suicide bombers into Pakistan. Anyone wanting to destabalize pakistan will benefit, it's simple logic.

The above statements proove that you're talking absolute absurdness. An unstable Pakistan is India's worst nightmare. Why would we send suicide bombers? You still haven't given me an answer other than saying the usual rhetoric.

What exactly is there to explain? India and Afghanistan are both enemies and rivals of Pakistan and it is part of their unofficial foreign policy objective to destroy pakistan. The Afghans are a bit more honest than India because in 1947 they opposed the creation of Pakistan. Therefor when both countries want to destroy Pakistan they will use every single opportunity to do so including bombs and suicide bombers.

Again, rhetoric. Stop blaming your country's ethnic worries on others.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

What exactly is there to explain? India and Afghanistan are both enemies and rivals of Pakistan and it is part of their unofficial foreign policy objective to destroy pakistan. The Afghans are a bit more honest than India because in 1947 they opposed the creation of Pakistan. Therefor when both countries want to destroy Pakistan they will use every single opportunity to do so including bombs and suicide bombers.

The idea that Pakistan can be destroyed is a trifle far fetched.

Pakistan is not Monte Carlo. It is a huge country and an impossibility to ''destroy'' as you put it.

I am sure India would not have such an insane and unachievable unofficial foreign policy.

I think the idea is too melodramatic!

 

[maqsad]

Give me one example where India has created a suicide bomber? I mean, a suicide bomber, and not seperatist movements.

Further, why would we want to destabilize Pakistan? So that more Pakistani youth get unemployed and start thinking jihad is not such a bad career proposition? India has no interst in detsabilizing Pakistan, as far as poking Pakistan (like you have done to us as well in the past) is concerned, that is a different matter.

Why would India want to destabalize pakistan? Doh! Why do you keep asking such ridiculous questions pretending not to know the answer when I have already given you the answer in the very post section that you quoted! India wants pakistan to be dismantled because Pakistan is a rival state, even a toddler can tell you that and even a toddler will not argue with it.

Pakistan has been the source of most of India's past challenges and obviously is assumed to be the fly in the ointment for the future.

How? A few bombs here and there and Pakistan is week? Further, what is happening in Pakistan is a very unique form of tribal warfare.

We hate the Taliban as much as you do... why would we use them?

You can't seem to come up with any reasonable retorts so you just answer back with "why would we be so bad" or "how could we possibly be so mean" oneliners. It's like listening to a broken record.

Bombs sway public opinion which has a heavy influence on who gets elected and where the power shifts. Bombings can also be used to intimidate certain ethnic and political groups in Pakistan, to set certain groups against each other etc etc. Bombs that target the ISI or police departments can send messages from sponsors for the departments to change their policy, their targets, the direction of certain investigations etc. Bombs weaken the write of the government and can give strengh to splinter groups and opposing ideologies. I can think of hundreds of effects bombings can have. Why on earth do you think people use bombs if they hold no sway?

The above statements proove that you're talking absolute absurdness. An unstable Pakistan is India's worst nightmare. Why would we send suicide bombers? You still haven't given me an answer other than saying the usual rhetoric.

You response to the above statmements prove you don't have an answer to the facts I posted about. It is a fact that both Afghanistan and India have territorial disputes with Pakistan. It is a fact that the policy of India is to weaken, break up, destroy, dominate and/or control Pakistan in any way possible because it is one of two main rivals. You can make meaningless claims that is "the usual rhetoric" but you cannot argue the facts, can you? The fact is both India and Afghanistan have the motive and the means to destabalize pakistan to further their own agendas.

Again, rhetoric. Stop blaming your country's ethnic worries on others.

I'm blaming the exploitation of ethnic problems on others. Pure logic dictates that a hostile power would both exploit as well as escalate ethnic problems in an enemy country in order to further their aims. You have no retort to this hence you just wrote the same "stop blaming us" oneliner with nothing to back it up, as expected.

 

[maqsad]

The idea that Pakistan can be destroyed is a trifle far fetched.

Pakistan is not Monte Carlo. It is a huge country and an impossibility to ''destroy'' as you put it.

I am sure India would not have such an insane and unachievable unofficial foreign policy.

I think the idea is too melodramatic!

Why do you bother fabricating such complete and utter nonsense when you know it can be debunked completely? India has already destroyed the old Pakistan by splitting it into two states after invading one part smack in the middle of a civil war. Do you deny this? I want to hear you deny this so I can prove you wrong again, seems like you and Stealth Assasin are in the mood to be proven wrong today.

Both India and Afghanistan want to dismantle pakistan, the Afghans do not bother being dishonest about their intentions. Ask any Afghan and he will tell you they want to annex Balochistan and use Gawador as their warm water post and they want to annex most of NWFP and NA/Kashmir as well. India has already invaded and annexed other independent territories including Hydrabad and is doing that yet again with Kashmir. It's a lot harder with pakistan of course and may very well not happen since the challenges are enormous this time!

 

[vish]

Why would India want to destabalize pakistan? Doh! Why do you keep asking such ridiculous questions pretending not to know the answer when I have already given you the answer in the very post section that you quoted! India wants pakistan to be dismantled because Pakistan is a rival state, even a toddler can tell you that and even a toddler will not argue with it.

I'll ask again: Why would we want to destabilize Pakistan, given the fact that a destabilized Pakistan is our worst nightmare? We are very much happy with the status quo in Kashmir.

You haven't provided me any answer that is not rhetoric.

Pakistan has been the source of most of India's past challenges and obviously is assumed to be the fly in the ointment for the future.

Doh! Dude, what chalenge? The only challenges were the wars and proxy wars. Both are almost entirely unlikely to happen in the future.

You can't seem to come up with any reasonable retorts so you just answer back with "why would we be so bad" or "how could we possibly be so mean" oneliners. It's like listening to a broken record.

I'm not saying that we are not bad, I'm saying that it serves no purpose.

Bombs sway public opinion which has a heavy influence on who gets elected and where the power shifts. Bombings can also be used to intimidate certain ethnic and political groups in Pakistan, to set certain groups against each other etc etc. Bombs that target the ISI or police departments can send messages from sponsors for the departments to change their policy, their targets, the direction of certain investigations etc. Bombs weaken the write of the government and can give strengh to splinter groups and opposing ideologies. I can think of hundreds of effects bombings can have. Why on earth do you think people use bombs if they hold no sway?

How does it matter to us as to who gets elected as long as there is a general trend toward peaceful consensus and acceptance of the status quo? We don't give a damn whether its NS or Zardari as long as things are calmed. People use bombs to influence opinion, but what opinion will India influence by carrying out bombings in Pakistan? You country is facing a difference of ethnicity crisis (In simple terms: My Tribe yaay, Your tribe booo); stop blaming it on us.

You response to the above statmements prove you don't have an answer to the facts I posted about. It is a fact that both Afghanistan and India have territorial disputes with Pakistan. It is a fact that the policy of India is to weaken, break up, destroy, dominate and/or control Pakistan in any way possible because it is one of two main rivals. You can make meaningless claims that is "the usual rhetoric" but you cannot argue the facts, can you? The fact is both India and Afghanistan have the motive and the means to destabalize pakistan to further their own agendas.

Having territorial disputes in no way implies that one would use such methods. India's policy is "mind your business, we'll mind ours, accept the K status quo, and let your M brothers live in peace." What you have said above is brainwashed rhetoric.

I'm blaming the exploitation of ethnic problems on others. Pure logic dictates that a hostile power would both exploit as well as escalate ethnic problems in an enemy country in order to further their aims. You have no retort to this hence you just wrote the same "stop blaming us" oneliner with nothing to back it up, as expected.

What exploitation? I'll accept Baluchistan, but even there we never went superbly overboard. We hate these fundamentalists as much as you do, why would we wash our hands in their water? You have made allegations, first back them up and then suggest us to do so for our counter-arguments.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Why do you bother fabricating such complete and utter nonsense when you know it can be debunked completely? India has already destroyed the old Pakistan by splitting it into two states after invading one part smack in the middle of a civil war. Do you deny this? I want to hear you deny this so I can prove you wrong again, seems like you and Stealth Assasin are in the mood to be proven wrong today.

I am not in the manufacturing business. It is you who said it was India's unofficial policy. Are you privy to India's official or unofficial foreign policy? So, it is obvious who is fabricating.

India did not split Pakistan. It was the incorrect and racial policy that lead to Pakistan's breakup. India only lent a helping hand. It must be understood that if the Bengalis of Bangladesh had not revolted in the manner they did, it would have been impossible for Bangladesh to become an independent country in just 14 days, Indian Army notwithstanding. One does not have to go too far to realise this fact. The US and ISAF is still struggling in Afghanistan. IS the US and ISAF Forces inferior to the Indian Army? Therefore, it is obvious that it was the Bengalis who ensured the split and India helped. But for the Bengali anger, it would be impossible. And why were the Bengalis angered? Because they were treated as second class!! So, let emotions not heap blame on India alone. Pakistan was responsible for the split!

Both India and Afghanistan want to dismantle pakistan, the Afghans do not bother being dishonest about their intentions. Ask any Afghan and he will tell you they want to annex Balochistan and use Gawador as their warm water post and they want to annex most of NWFP and NA/Kashmir as well. India has already invaded and annexed other independent territories including Hydrabad and is doing that yet again with Kashmir. It's a lot harder with pakistan of course and may very well not happen since the challenges are enormous this time!

Again it is emotional! Is the Afghan anywhere capable of annexing half of Pakistan as you are trying to suggest. You are merely being emotion and burning yourself needless with self pity.

Pakistan is not a pack of cards as you wish to make it out to be.