World Exclusive JF-17 and Rafale in Joint Exercise

[Yasser76]

may be india want military base in greece ? because greece gave military base from america to france also close relationship with egypt . Constantly try to prevent turkey in mediterranian for oil and gas

Greece would allow an Indian base? I am unsure.

What military presence could India provide that Greeks themselves cannot?

 

[Leviza]

Exercises in peace time and hard work pays off in the time of war

 

[Windjammer]

Unlike the Indians, I don't see Pakistanis making any racket about IAF exercising with Block-52s or having access to them. Although when the test came, Indians who use to boast that SU-30 is an overkill of PAF and is only meant for PLAAF WHILE MiG-29 would take care of entire PAF fleet.....and guess what on 27 Feb, there was no MiG-29 in sight and the myth of SU-30 was destroyed forever and it wasn't even the PAF Block-52s that took care of things.
BTW, the SD-10 is taking care of ever more sectors.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Unlike the Indians, I don't see Pakistanis making any racket about IAF exercising with Block-52s or having access to them. Although when the test came, Indians who use to boast that SU-30 is an overkill of PAF and is only meant for PLAAF WHILE MiG-29 would take care of entire PAF fleet.....and guess what on 27 Feb, there was no MiG-29 in sight and the myth of SU-30 was destroyed forever and it wasn't even the PAF Block-52s that took care of things.
BTW, the SD-10 is taking care of ever more sectors.

" Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt." -- Abraham Lincoln.

 

[Raider 21]

And there were occasions that the Americans wouldn't allow the Chinese military attaché wonder near the F-16 let alone sit in it, they were disturbed at the fact that the Chinese officer was using his finger to asses the size and measurements of the F-16 HUD.
Why did Americans had strict objections to UAE hiring PAF pilots to man it's Block-60s.....surely PAF pilots weren't exactly going to remove some gadgets from those jets.
I hope you get the larger picture.

It was strictly due to ITAR regulations and that it was a non FMS program.

Sorry to burst ur bubble.
The Singapore AF, f 16 are permanently stationed in India, as Singapore is a very small country and lacks the airspace to train its pilots. So India fills that role.
India carries out regular exercises with SAF and even has a pilot exchange program.
But In spite of knowing so much about the f 16. PAF f 16 wiped the floor with iaf ac on feb 26.

I hope u get the pic.

Their pilot exchange program, if they do have one, does not include having them to fly each other's fighters.

The Indian Air Force have been cozy with the F-16 far earlier than that, their test pilots have done their TPS courses at Edwards AFB, flying the F-16 as part of their test pilot and flight test engineer courses.

 

[Yasser76]

It was strictly due to ITAR regulations and that it was a non FMS program.

Their pilot exchange program, if they do have one, does not include having them to fly each other's fighters.

The Indian Air Force have been cozy with the F-16 far earlier than that, their test pilots have done their TPS courses at Edwards AFB, flying the F-16 as part of their test pilot and flight test engineer courses.

Pakistani test pilots have flown on many types too, does not make PAF "Cosy" with those tupes, not by a long shot.

When you have front line combat squadrons go up in many air to air combat scenarios and do this many many times against pilots who are also trying their best to kill you, and you beat them and you learn, that is when you start getting "cosy".

Yes, IAF plays with Singapore AF F-16s, and at one point it went on to boast how good the Bison was against USAF F-15s at Cope India years ago. Well, we all know what happened next.....

 

[Raider 21]

Pakistani test pilots have flown on many types too, does not make PAF "Cosy" with those tupes, not by a long shot.

When you have front line combat squadrons go up in many air to air combat scenarios and do this many many times against pilots who are also trying their best to kill you, and you beat them and you learn, that is when you start getting "cosy".

Yes, IAF plays with Singapore AF F-16s, and at one point it went on to boast how good the Bison was against USAF F-15s at Cope India years ago. Well, we all know what happened next.....

Negative sir. The Pakistani test pilots haven't been through a formal course other than ETPS. But that's a discussion we can have in a PM as I work in that sector.

And by cozy I meant familiarity.

Regarding operational flying, the Indians have had Singapore, Thailand and USA as regular partners with Vipers as regular platforms as being employed.

Yes I'm aware of the squadron ops, saw two exercises in the gulf. Was attached to a fighter squadron, and I couldn't agree more than what you mentioned.

Unlike the Indians, I don't see Pakistanis making any racket about IAF exercising with Block-52s or having access to them. Although when the test came, Indians who use to boast that SU-30 is an overkill of PAF and is only meant for PLAAF WHILE MiG-29 would take care of entire PAF fleet.....and guess what on 27 Feb, there was no MiG-29 in sight and the myth of SU-30 was destroyed forever and it wasn't even the PAF Block-52s that took care of things.
BTW, the SD-10 is taking care of ever more sectors.

In that sense, Pakistanis have learned to become flexible and fluid with situations. Not complain like the Indians generally would.

 

[The Raven]

The PAF have historically adopted a NATO/US doctrine when it comes to combat and pilot training, which has allowed the PAF to very easily integrate into combined training events like Red Flag and Anatolian Eagle, along with those in the Gulf region. However, the IAF have faired less successfully (I'm sure most people remember the video of the F-15 Eagle driver who was lambasting the performance of the IAF Su-30s and their pilots) in Western orientated training events because historically they've either not had a formal doctrine in place, or modelled one based on Soviet/Russian methods. Things may have improved, but clearly the IAF still has a long way to go, especially in terms of integrating netcentric warfare into their manuals, as was seen in Feb 2019.

 

[POPEYE-Sailor]

AHAHHAHA Rafael ki kami b nikal di PAF ne

 

[Yasser76]

Negative sir. The Pakistani test pilots haven't been through a formal course other than ETPS. But that's a discussion we can have in a PM as I work in that sector.

And by cozy I meant familiarity.

Regarding operational flying, the Indians have had Singapore, Thailand and USA as regular partners with Vipers as regular platforms as being employed.

Yes I'm aware of the squadron ops, saw two exercises in the gulf. Was attached to a fighter squadron, and I couldn't agree more than what you mentioned.

In that sense, Pakistanis have learned to become flexible and fluid with situations. Not complain like the Indians generally would.

Firstly ETPS does give you access to more then just the actual aircraft owned by ETPS, and PAF pilots have undergone other schools as well (Namely China), India certainly does not have regular exercises with the USAF and Singapore/Thailand. Unless your defininition of regular is once every 3-5 years (the last one being November 2019) In fact I would hazard a guess very few (if any) of the current crop below rank of Sqd Ldr have gone up against a Viper. PAF pilots are at Konya and China every year. Happy for me to be correct here.

Simply put PAF puts a lot more effort into ensuring it's pilots go up against dissimilar oppnants compared to the IAF, this is fairly open source and easily accessible, you do not need insider info, your own experience or a word from someones "dad's cousins, best friend" to figure that out.

I can count at least 5-7 JF-17/Mirage/F-7 units that have gone up against SU-30s, Mirages 2000s and now Rafales. I cannot say the same with IAF units going up against Vipers.

 

[Raider 21]

Simply put PAF puts a lot more effort into ensuring it's pilots go up against dissimilar oppnants compared to the IAF, this is fairly open source and easily accessible, you do not need insider info, your own experience or a word from someones "dad's cousins, best friend" to figure that out.

I am aware sir. I will refrain from "insider info" or my own personal experience with fighter squadrons to be written here as it may raise further confusion.

Cheers and thanks for the info.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Let's not forget JF-17's RCS and heat sigs would be captured by Rafales as well, and as per agreement with Qatar, France will have access to mission data. Now can India access that..? Looking at the nature of French-India relationship, you can anticipate that. So... it is a double-edged sword.

No there is limit to what the OEM can store and analyze.
Flight performance data,
Electronics
EW suite
weapons firing

But, access to radar seeks, NO.
At least not legally.

Lastly understand, that radars are not eyes, what they work on is an electrical signal.
They have then to correlate what that signal means.
So a radar may be receiving a million signals. doesn't mean it knows which is friend, foe, or what type of plane.

 

[Windjammer]

JF-17 Riders Leaving for mission during AE21.

 

[Yasser76]

I am aware sir. I will refrain from "insider info" or my own personal experience with fighter squadrons to be written here as it may raise further confusion.

Cheers and thanks for the info.

No need to refrain, or to imply somehow you have access to insider info that no one else has and yet at the same time happy to share it (like you have been) on an open internet forum. It implies an inherent contradiction no. Not asking for any secrets, just very odd hearing about "regular" exercises with Singapore and Thailand and the US that the IAF never publicises when we all now the opposite is very much the case,, unless you are of course implying that every year the IAF secretly goes up against mass Viper formations with many squadrons (like the PAF does at Konya and China) yet manages to keep this hidden from the rest of the world apart from *checks notes* you on this forum. Can you see why I am slightly cynical?

 

[Raider 21]

No need to refrain, or to imply somehow you have access to insider info that no one else has and yet at the same time happy to share it (like you have been) on an open internet forum. It implies an inherent contradiction no. Not asking for any secrets, just very odd hearing about "regular" exercises with Singapore and Thailand and the US that the IAF never publicises when we all now the opposite is very much the case,, unless you are of course implying that every year the IAF secretly goes up against mass Viper formations with many squadrons (like the PAF does at Konya and China) yet manages to keep this hidden from the rest of the world apart from *checks notes* you on this forum. Can you see why I am slightly cynical?

No