World Bank paints bleak picture of economy

[AZ1]

Because
Maybe these news stimulate someone to stop sniffing and do something beneficial for Pakistan.

Where were you when pakistan went bankrupt in 2018?

If the economy was moving well, why get rid of Dr Abdul hafeez sheikh chilli. Normally a way is found to circumvent laws for khan's people, before the retard brigade jump in claiming that he can't be a minister, he could be made the pope or something

And so what

So what? then so what about this topic also or talk when your leader return $93 billion as Pakistan may 2018 took $93 billion of loans.

This dollar rate is not for you, you are not pakistani just like nawaz sharif sons british national they called themselves after looting money from pakistan.

 

[Imran Khan]

Wait a second , how industrialized is Pakistan ?

tbh i have no idea sir . i am not expert in this

 

[Mrc]

Gdp is growing at 3 percent currently wb is smoking some pure....

 

[Mav3rick]

Where were you when pakistan went bankrupt in 2018?

As per Murad Saeed right? The same factual library who has thrown USD 100 Billion at IMF and the other 100 Billion on the welfare of us Pakistanis!

So what? then so what about this topic also or talk when your leader return $93 billion as Pakistan may 2018 took $93 billion of loans.

Excuse me for jumping in, just to set the record straight. Pakistan was already under a debt of USD 32 Billion before and after Musharraf, who also grew the GDP by 36.637 (2001-2007). PPP took loans amounting around 45 Billion, serviced around 15 Billion and left us with a debt of around USD 62 Billion, PPP also grew the GDP 12.3%; PML took around USD 75 Billion loans, serviced around 45 Billion and left us with a debt of USD 92 Billion but also grew the GDP by 30.72.

But for us it is important to understand what these have meant internally. To put things into perspective, you may note that Pakistan’s total debt and liabilities stood at Rs. 6 trillion in 2006-7 and under PPP rule it increased from Rs. 6 trillion to Rs. 14 trillion (2007-8 to 2012-13); PML-N increased debt and liabilities from Rs. 14 trillion to Rs. 29 trillion (2013 to 2018) and when the PTI came into power, Pakistan’s total debt and liabilities stood at Rs. 29.8 trillion on June 2018. This debt and liabilities burden went up to Rs40.2 trillion by end of June 2019 and now it has escalated to Rs44.5 trillion.

In terms of PKR, PML put us under a debt of Rs. 15 Trillion and in 2 - 2.5 years the PTI Government has added 14.5 Trillion. Rest, you all are educated enough to make up your minds. Just 1 final point, PPP was paying off debts that were taken by the previous regimes, PML was also paying off debts taken by PPP and earlier regimes so any argument (that certain people have in their minds) about only the PTI Government paying off debts is just soo moot.

Gdp is growing at 3 percent currently wb is smoking some pure....

What a load of baloney, it is growing at 13% and will soon overtake India.

 

[Goenitz]

Wait a second , how industrialized is Pakistan ?

How can we measure that? is there an indicator?
in General Pak is at most pre-industrial society which can make basic mechanical/e;electrical tools but not of HQ, with electronics and other 21st century subjects are non existent.

 

[AZ1]

As per Murad Saeed right? The same factual library who has thrown USD 100 Billion at IMF and the other 100 Billion on the welfare of us Pakistanis!





Excuse me for jumping in, just to set the record straight. Pakistan was already under a debt of USD 32 Billion before and after Musharraf, who also grew the GDP by 36.637 (2001-2007). PPP took loans amounting around 45 Billion, serviced around 15 Billion and left us with a debt of around USD 62 Billion, PPP also grew the GDP 12.3%; PML took around USD 75 Billion loans, serviced around 45 Billion and left us with a debt of USD 92 Billion but also grew the GDP by 30.72.

But for us it is important to understand what these have meant internally. To put things into perspective, you may note that Pakistan’s total debt and liabilities stood at Rs. 6 trillion in 2006-7 and under PPP rule it increased from Rs. 6 trillion to Rs. 14 trillion (2007-8 to 2012-13); PML-N increased debt and liabilities from Rs. 14 trillion to Rs. 29 trillion (2013 to 2018) and when the PTI came into power, Pakistan’s total debt and liabilities stood at Rs. 29.8 trillion on June 2018. This debt and liabilities burden went up to Rs40.2 trillion by end of June 2019 and now it has escalated to Rs44.5 trillion.

In terms of PKR, PML put us under a debt of Rs. 15 Trillion and in 2 - 2.5 years the PTI Government has added 14.5 Trillion. Rest, you all are educated enough to make up your minds. Just 1 final point, PPP was paying off debts that were taken by the previous regimes, PML was also paying off debts taken by PPP and earlier regimes so any argument (that certain people have in their minds) about only the PTI Government paying off debts is just soo moot.


What a load of baloney, it is growing at 13% and will soon overtake India.

better to support with links. who was before musharaf? and after musharaf?

and how much trade deficit when pmln left and when it was ppp? in dollars.

how much exports growth? remittance? all plays important role.

all experts said if you check shows in 2017 that rupees will now hit 150+ that was in pmln because they kept rupees value down by taking more and more loans eventually now we all have to pay and still paying.

 

[Patriot forever]

Gdp is growing at 3 percent currently wb is smoking some pure....

WB is catching up, as I recall their projection was at 0.5% this Jan so a big improvement.

Excuse me for jumping in, just to set the record straight. Pakistan was already under a debt of USD 32 Billion before and after Musharraf, who also grew the GDP by 36.637 (2001-2007). PPP took loans amounting around 45 Billion, serviced around 15 Billion and left us with a debt of around USD 62 Billion, PPP also grew the GDP 12.3%; PML took around USD 75 Billion loans, serviced around 45 Billion and left us with a debt of USD 92 Billion but also grew the GDP by 30.72.

But for us it is important to understand what these have meant internally. To put things into perspective, you may note that Pakistan’s total debt and liabilities stood at Rs. 6 trillion in 2006-7 and under PPP rule it increased from Rs. 6 trillion to Rs. 14 trillion (2007-8 to 2012-13); PML-N increased debt and liabilities from Rs. 14 trillion to Rs. 29 trillion (2013 to 2018) and when the PTI came into power, Pakistan’s total debt and liabilities stood at Rs. 29.8 trillion on June 2018. This debt and liabilities burden went up to Rs40.2 trillion by end of June 2019 and now it has escalated to Rs44.5 trillion.

In terms of PKR, PML put us under a debt of Rs. 15 Trillion and in 2 - 2.5 years the PTI Government has added 14.5 Trillion. Rest, you all are educated enough to make up your minds. Just 1 final point, PPP was paying off debts that were taken by the previous regimes, PML was also paying off debts taken by PPP and earlier regimes so any argument (that certain people have in their minds) about only the PTI Government paying off debts is just soo moot.

Sorry for jumping in, but if you take out the depreciation and interest payment the debt by both governments last 21/2 years of Plmn and 21/2 years of Pti, the actual increase in debt is less.
For the current FY Pti government is running a primary surplus which was unheard of in Plmn term for such a sustained period. Both CAD and Primary surplus are +ve which is very encouraging and shows there is no added accumulation of primary debt this FY.

If going by what Plmn was doing our external debt would have neared $150b alone, given the projected CAD and dollar subsidies.

Most of this debt increase is interest payment ( which is more than double of what Plmn paid) and depreciation.

One more very important point to note is now all the sovereign government backed debt of SOE (State owned enterprises) now shows up in government debt which was previously kept off the books in terms of government debt.

It's just simple maths, a debt cycle which ppp created and Plmn notched it up to a whole another level. Pti is just fire fighting to mitigate the damage.

There is a lot more I can write but I this misrepresentation has been addressed multiple times.

 

[aasimanwaar]

As per Murad Saeed right? The same factual library who has thrown USD 100 Billion at IMF and the other 100 Billion on the welfare of us Pakistanis!





Excuse me for jumping in, just to set the record straight. Pakistan was already under a debt of USD 32 Billion before and after Musharraf, who also grew the GDP by 36.637 (2001-2007). PPP took loans amounting around 45 Billion, serviced around 15 Billion and left us with a debt of around USD 62 Billion, PPP also grew the GDP 12.3%; PML took around USD 75 Billion loans, serviced around 45 Billion and left us with a debt of USD 92 Billion but also grew the GDP by 30.72.

But for us it is important to understand what these have meant internally. To put things into perspective, you may note that Pakistan’s total debt and liabilities stood at Rs. 6 trillion in 2006-7 and under PPP rule it increased from Rs. 6 trillion to Rs. 14 trillion (2007-8 to 2012-13); PML-N increased debt and liabilities from Rs. 14 trillion to Rs. 29 trillion (2013 to 2018) and when the PTI came into power, Pakistan’s total debt and liabilities stood at Rs. 29.8 trillion on June 2018. This debt and liabilities burden went up to Rs40.2 trillion by end of June 2019 and now it has escalated to Rs44.5 trillion.

In terms of PKR, PML put us under a debt of Rs. 15 Trillion and in 2 - 2.5 years the PTI Government has added 14.5 Trillion. Rest, you all are educated enough to make up your minds. Just 1 final point, PPP was paying off debts that were taken by the previous regimes, PML was also paying off debts taken by PPP and earlier regimes so any argument (that certain people have in their minds) about only the PTI Government paying off debts is just soo moot.


What a load of baloney, it is growing at 13% and will soon overtake India.

From ur given stats ppp increased debt from 6 to 14 billion $ in there tanure.

Which is more than double
i. e 230 %

PMLN increased from 14 to 29

More than DOUBLE. i. e 207 %

And PTI from 29 to 44

Which is almost 50 percent.

It's shows if PTI taken loan around 60 billion $ then it's same dept which PPP and PmlN taken.

So till now PTI is far better and behind the from Ppp and PmlN.

 

[Mav3rick]

better to support with links. who was before musharaf? and after musharaf?

and how much trade deficit when pmln left and when it was ppp? in dollars.

how much exports growth? remittance? all plays important role.

all experts said if you check shows in 2017 that rupees will now hit 150+ that was in pmln because they kept rupees value down by taking more and more loans eventually now we all have to pay and still paying.

If you doubt my figures, you can always exercise your right to fact finding.

Trade Deficit was less in PPP era as there was no CPEC and very low Military related procurements; both were high in PML tenure and hence the higher Deficit. However, both were temporary, especially the former, and was always going to subside.

Remittances were more or less always growing, the only difference is that currently the Government has statistics being produced by Banks instead of Hawala/Hundi (documented vs undocumented remittances). Exports during Musharraf were in decline, under PPP there was a shock to the export industry, especially textile related due to mega shortage of electricity. PTI Government, thanks to PML, has surplus energy due to which there can be mushroom growth of new industry, which was not there during PML tenure who was busy in setting up the dozen or so power plants.

I recall the so called experts and analysts also repeatedly calling Musharraf's tenure as a bubble and he too was blamed for keeping the USD artificially down. And I simply do not understand the support or logic for USD @ 160 PKR.

From ur given stats ppp increased debt from 6 to 14 billion $ in there tanure.

Which is more than double
i. e 230 %

PMLN increased from 14 to 29

More than DOUBLE. i. e 207 %

And PTI from 29 to 44

Which is almost 50 percent.

It's shows if PTI taken loan around 60 billion $ then it's same dept which PPP and PmlN taken.

So till now PTI is far better and behind the from Ppp and PmlN.

You must be in HR, right? The way you have beautifully placed the explosive figures to make PTI good is excellent. However, please allow me to interject, while you very craftily hid behind % of increase rather than the actual figure difference, you have failed to take into account the growth in GDP during the previous tenures. Is it too hard to understand that a wealthy person can afford to take bigger loans as he has the capacity to pay them back but a shrinking economy does not have the capacity to pay back loans. PTI has actually shrunk the economy and hence in relative terms the 50% additional debt so far, on the back of an economy small than what PML left, is a major disaster.

 

[Mav3rick]

Sorry for jumping in, but if you take out the depreciation and interest payment the debt by both governments last 21/2 years of Plmn and 21/2 years of Pti, the actual increase in debt is less.
For the current FY Pti government is running a primary surplus which was unheard of in Plmn term for such a sustained period. Both CAD and Primary surplus are +ve which is very encouraging and shows there is no added accumulation of primary debt this FY.

If going by what Plmn was doing our external debt would have neared $150b alone, given the projected CAD and dollar subsidies.

Most of this debt increase is interest payment ( which is more than double of what Plmn paid) and depreciation.

One more very important point to note is now all the sovereign government backed debt of SOE (State owned enterprises) now shows up in government debt which was previously kept off the books in terms of government debt.

It's just simple maths, a debt cycle which ppp created and Plmn notched it up to a whole another level. Pti is just fire fighting to mitigate the damage.

There is a lot more I can write but I this misrepresentation has been addressed multiple times.

So, I have been hearing so much about surplus, FYI the surplus has eroded since December; however, what exactly is the target here? what is it that you find so amusing? a debt free economy? Even countries like Saudi Arabia, UK, USA, Germany etc,, have massive debt. What differentiates us is their ability to pay it back due to the growing economy......because none of them has the 'naya' system.

And my friend, honestly, if the economy was actually doing so great, HS would not have been sacked and we wouldn't have to listen to the dictation of IMF for a mere 600 million USD. And trust me, I would have had to complaint with PTI if our debt was higher riding on a 6+/7+ GDP; but well we have Corona to place all the blame on.

Most of the debt, well not most but a large chunk is indeed depreciation. But then again, who caused the massive devaluation which made all of us poorer by atleast 40%-60%.

Finally, what you refer to a debt cycle is actually how the world works, every country is in debt.

 

[Death Professor]

I think dollar will go even more down, may be around 145 - 148 Rs.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Maybe these news stimulate someone to stop sniffing and do something beneficial for Pakistan.

Was Pakistan the Asian tiger economy before 2018? Just wondering.

 

[AZ1]

If you doubt my figures, you can always exercise your right to fact finding.

Trade Deficit was less in PPP era as there was no CPEC and very low Military related procurements; both were high in PML tenure and hence the higher Deficit. However, both were temporary, especially the former, and was always going to subside.

Remittances were more or less always growing, the only difference is that currently the Government has statistics being produced by Banks instead of Hawala/Hundi (documented vs undocumented remittances). Exports during Musharraf were in decline, under PPP there was a shock to the export industry, especially textile related due to mega shortage of electricity. PTI Government, thanks to PML, has surplus energy due to which there can be mushroom growth of new industry, which was not there during PML tenure who was busy in setting up the dozen or so power plants.

I recall the so called experts and analysts also repeatedly calling Musharraf's tenure as a bubble and he too was blamed for keeping the USD artificially down. And I simply do not understand the support or logic for USD @ 160 PKR.


You must be in HR, right? The way you have beautifully placed the explosive figures to make PTI good is excellent. However, please allow me to interject, while you very craftily hid behind % of increase rather than the actual figure difference, you have failed to take into account the growth in GDP during the previous tenures. Is it too hard to understand that a wealthy person can afford to take bigger loans as he has the capacity to pay them back but a shrinking economy does not have the capacity to pay back loans. PTI has actually shrunk the economy and hence in relative terms the 50% additional debt so far, on the back of an economy small than what PML left, is a major disaster.

So due to cpec we had trade deficit? how so any source or its just your own thinking? and if so why rushing for such thing which put burden of $20 billion on people without proper thinking?
also you mentioned hundi so credit should be given to Pti for making it documented.

remittance is growing and hopefully we may cross $22-$24 billion that would ve additional $2 billion if this is not success then I dont know what is for you.

as for exports

as you can see above we had decline from 2015 to 2017 and there was no corona that time.

 

[Skywalker]

As long as CPEC is functional, I dont think Pakistan have anything to worry about.

Also, China is at the back; so all will be well in sometime at the economic front.

For now, Pakistan should just avoid antagonizing China, dont do anything that will undermine China's interests.

APKI KIYOUN JAL RAHI HAI BHAI.

 

[Mav3rick]

So due to cpec we had trade deficit? how so any source or its just your own thinking? and if so why rushing for such thing which put burden of $20 billion on people without proper thinking?
also you mentioned hundi so credit should be given to Pti for making it documented.

remittance is growing and hopefully we may cross $22-$24 billion that would ve additional $2 billion if this is not success then I dont know what is for you.

CPEC most certainly had a large footprint on our trade deficit but I never said all of it was because of CPEC. Even if that were the case, what you need to realize is how investment works; have you ever taken a house loan? Initially you are under a large debt but you also have made an investment which will eventually pay off in the long run. Now, consider that your financial position has grown to the point where you are able to take yet another loan, invest in an additional property and so on. This means that you are under considerable debt but financially you are in a better position than you would be with no debt and no property (investment). Similarly, investment in CPEC, Power Projects etc., was essential to our long term interest and benefit.

What you need to give PTI is the entire blame of the financial crisis that you and I are in today. As for Hundi, do you know it is legal in leading countries of the world? What do you think Western Union is? We were supposed to cut down on "illegal" Hundi/Hawala but we decided to ban it completely for whatever reason even though all we needed to do was legitimize them and regulate them.

Remittances will grow regardless of whose Government it is, because more and more Pakistanis are going abroad and sending money to their families. If you mean it is growing through the Banking Sector, well it is because of no effort on the part of PTI which wasn't either FATF related or an act of God (COVID).

So basically, you don't really know what success is; well let me tell you in the simplest way possible, if the life of the poorest in your country is made easy then it is success otherwise it is a failure.

as for exports

View attachment 729938

as you can see above we had decline from 2015 to 2017 and there was no corona that time.

Yeah, nice, we are exporting Sugar and Wheat whenever it is surplus and then importing it after every 2 months......very smart indeed, but only for the mafias and cartels so don't be fooled with the export figures. And the actual exports such as Textile, Surgical/Sports Goods and edibles which we do not eventually import are all thanks to the surplus electricity that we all enjoy today, our load-shedding free summers now are because of the previous Government and not because of PTI; PTI is just merely reaping the rewards.