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World Agenda: Kashmir - the elephant in the room

blain2

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Finally there is some interest in the right direction to resolve the Kashmir issue. Thus far India's stonewalling has been detrimental to the peace and stability in the region. The past 60 years have shown that Pakistan and India are incapable of resolving this issue bilaterally which in turn continues to fester and due to spill over, creates more complexities for other regional issues and for the overall global war on terror.

I think as much as our Indian friends would disagree with this article, there are quite a lot of benefits for the region in getting over the Kashmir hump.


From Times Online
January 22, 2009
World Agenda: Kashmir - the elephant in the room
In our latest daily column, the Times' Delhi bureau chief says India must not ignore Kashmir when searching for explanations for extremism
Islamic militants of Pakistan-based Al-Badar group are seen in this September 10, 2000 file photo at a camp near the Pakistani side of disputed Kashmir.

(Zahid Hussein/Reuters)

Islamists militants pictured on the Pakistani side of the disputed territory of Kashmir
Jeremy Page

Arrogant, ham-handed, startling, impertinent – these are the sort of words used here, with reason, to describe David Miliband's comments on the Mumbai attacks last week.

There is another word, though, that applies equally well: correct.

Of course it was impolitic to contradict Manmohan Singh, the Prime Minister, by saying that Britain does not believe the Pakistani state directed the Mumbai attacks.

As for suggesting that the root cause of such attacks is Kashmir, surely the FCO recalls India's outrage in 1997 when Robin Cook suggested mediating on that issue?

For the current Foreign Secretary of the former colonial ruler to make both these points publicly, while on Indian soil, was either deliberately provocative or incredibly naive.

Mr Miliband also managed to cause offence with his tone and body language – a schoolboy error in dealing with a notoriously sensitive partner.

The fact remains, however: he was spot on.

Indian officials admit in private that there is no evidence yet of a direct link between Mumbai and the Pakistani state, even if they are sure that it played a role.

More significantly, most regional experts agree with Mr Miliband that "resolution of the dispute over Kashmir would help deny extremists in the region one of their main calls to arms".

For too long, Kashmir has been the "elephant in the room" in the international discourse on security in South Asia – and a stain on the copybook of the world's largest democracy.

In 1948-9, the United Nations passed resolutions calling for a plebiscite in Kashmir on whether it should join India or Pakistan.

Ever since, India has refused to comply and blocked international efforts to resolve the issue, over which it has fought two of its three wars with Pakistan.


Now that both have nuclear weapons, Kashmir is a legitimate concern for the whole world, yet foreigners who bring it up are invariably shouted down.

India's media rarely challenges government policy there, while the foreign media has been understandably focused on Pakistan and Afghanistan since 9/11.

As a result, few outside the region are even aware that India still has half a million troops in Kashmir, making it one of the most heavily militarised corners of the planet.

Or that by official estimates, more than 47,000 people have been killed there since an uprising against Indian rule began in 1989 (rights groups put the toll nearer 70,000).

Or that that Kashmir's four million Muslims routinely suffer arbitrary arrest, torture and extra-judicial execution by security forces, according to most rights groups.


Last year alone, at least 42 people were killed by security forces in protests against Indian rule. By comparison, 22 people were killed in the anti-China riots in Tibet in 2008.

Kashmir's problems do not justify the Mumbai attacks.

But in trying to prevent more attacks in India and elsewhere, it is ludicrous to continue to ignore Indian policy in the region. The fact is that Kashmir is the primary motivation for most terrorists in India and Pakistan. It is also why Pakistan's spies maintain links with such people.

The real reason India is so upset is that Mr Miliband's words reflect the thinking of President Obama, who plans to appoint a special envoy on South Asia.

The idea is for this envoy to take a more holistic approach to the region, including Kashmir, to address the concerns of all the major stakeholders.

It is a good idea and Mr Obama and his allies should continue to promote it, however loudly India complains.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5566533.ece
 
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What about Pakistan govt.? Why are they quite? What is response of Pakistan's ambassador to US?
It is not a very good signal.
 
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Solving Kashmir will transform the region and the two nations can progress without the added tensions of a nuclear war and with enough time the characteristic hostility will die down. I don't see how this is not an exciting prospect. It will result in real change, a cliché, I know but a real change is needed in South Asia.
People are getting tired of the colonial mindset and rivalries. We seriously need to put this era behind us, and it cant be done with Kashmir sticking out like a sore thumb.
 
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I find it ironic, that for all the complaints thrown at Pakistan and her leadership and people for having one single rason de etre, 'Hatred for India', it is Pakistanis who are in the forefront of pushing for a solution to the dispute so that South Asia can usher in a new cooperative and progressive era.

All we hear from the Indians is just more jingoism and rhetoric of 'over our dead bodies' and screw agreements and UN resolutions and resolving disputes. So who really survives as a nation on the basis of a 'hatred for the other'?

I find it hard to believe its the side most enthusiastic about resolving Kashmir through compromise and moving towards open borders, shared interests and economic progress and development - which is Pakistan.
 
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Wow - what a way to turn the issue on its head.

The reason for the terrorism in Kashmir isn't the fact that its a part of India, its the other way around - the sponsorship of terror and extremism by Pakistan is what created the problem in the first place.

The solution to Kashmir isn't to give in to the demands of these terrorists, which does nothing but help perpetuate their ideology, but a responsible attitude by Pakistan proactively dismantling the terror infrastructure.

By squarely putting the blame on India and failing to implicate Pakistan for its unethical attempts to engineer social and political change in the region since 1989 (edit: 1947), the writer has lost all his credibility.
 
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^^^ The support for proxies cam about after India unilaterally decided to violate all previous agreements, UN resolutions and the condition of plebiscite under partition rules.

So yes, the resulting morphing of some proxies into terrorist groups is a result of India's refusal to move on Kashmir and her occupation.

The author is Jeremy Page, Zahid Hussein is the photographer I believe.
 
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I find it ironic, that for all the complaints thrown at Pakistan and her leadership and people for having one single rason de etre, 'Hatred for India', it is Pakistanis who are in the forefront of pushing for a solution to the dispute so that South Asia can usher in a new cooperative and progressive era.

Nothing ironic about it. Pakistan has little to lose, and a lot to gain by 'solving' the dispute, whereas India has nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Pakistan has realized, after several attempts, that it cannot wrest Kashmir by force - so the next best thing is to internationalize the issue and try to convince the world that the only solution to terrorism is to give into their demands.
 
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Nothing ironic about it. Pakistan has little to lose, and a lot to gain by 'solving' the dispute, whereas India has nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Pakistan has realized, after several attempts, that it cannot wrest Kashmir by force - so the next best thing is to internationalize the issue and try to convince the world that the only solution to terrorism is to give into their demands.


Like usual you have no regard for the wishes of the Kashmiri people, but only how much land India loses/gains. All kinds of solutions have been proposed, including independence for Kashmir valley + AJK, but India didn't budge. So history shows that unlike India, Pakistan cares for the Kashmiri people.

I dont know what other methods you have in mind to solve this conflict. LOC as IB would be classified as ignoring Kashmiris altogether. So do you care to propose a solution keeping in mind India's title of "worlds largest democracy"?

The question assumes that Kashmir is a disputed territory.
 
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Nothing ironic about it. Pakistan has little to lose, and a lot to gain by 'solving' the dispute, whereas India has nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Pakistan has realized, after several attempts, that it cannot wrest Kashmir by force - so the next best thing is to internationalize the issue and try to convince the world that the only solution to terrorism is to give into their demands.

And none of this would have happened if Nehru had stuck to this word and gone through with the referendum. Pakistan tried the 'diplomatic and peaceful route' till 1965, and we have seen what the Indian leaderships response to that was.
 
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Like usual you have no regard for the wishes of the Kashmiri people, but only how much land India loses/gains. All kinds of solutions have been proposed, including independence for Kashmir valley + AJK, but India didn't budge. So history shows that unlike India, Pakistan cares for the Kashmiri people.

Pakistan's treatment of its own people completely undermines your claim that Pakistan cares for the Kashmiris. Unless of course, Pakistan cares more for the Kashmiris than it does its own people.

As I said, Pakistan stands to lose little and gain a lot if the Kashmir conflict is "resolved" according to its own wishes, hence its eagerness to weaken Indian presence in kashmir.

Indian Kashmiris have the full range of human rights and self-government. Can the same be said about the people of "Azad" Kashmir? Of course not. Yet they have the gall to claim that they 'care about the Kashmiri people'.

The large military presence is terrible for civil society of course - it would be terrible anywhere, not just Kashmir. But by continuing to train and fund Jehadis, and thus forcing India to keep up troop levels, Pakistan has a vested interest in keeping the Kashmiris suffering so that the issue gets media attention.

Similar parallels can be drawn with Palestine as well - the arab nations have a vested interest in keeping the Palestinian refugees in that terrible state, because they don't want to see Israels' existence fully realized.

I dont know what other methods you have in mind to solve this conflict. LOC as IB would be classified as ignoring Kashmiris altogether. So do you care to propose a solution keeping in mind India's title of "worlds largest democracy"?

Kashmir is already a democracy - so I don't see how that affects the "World's largest democracy title".

As far as plebiscite is concerned, there are geopolitical considerations which make it impossible for the valley to have full political independence.
 
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Pakistan's treatment of its own people completely undermines your claim that Pakistan cares for the Kashmiris. Unless of course, Pakistan cares more for the Kashmiris than it does its own people.

As I said, Pakistan stands to lose little and gain a lot if the Kashmir conflict is "resolved" according to its own wishes, hence its eagerness to weaken Indian presence in kashmir.

Indian Kashmiris have the full range of human rights and self-government. Can the same be said about the people of "Azad" Kashmir? Of course not. Yet they have the gall to claim that they 'care about the Kashmiri people'.

The large military presence is terrible for civil society of course - it would be terrible anywhere, not just Kashmir. But by continuing to train and fund Jehadis, and thus forcing India to keep up troop levels, Pakistan has a vested interest in keeping the Kashmiris suffering so that the issue gets media attention.

Similar parallels can be drawn with Palestine as well - the arab nations have a vested interest in keeping the Palestinian refugees in that terrible state, because they don't want to see Israels' existence fully realized.
Most nations are in an evolving state of human and political rights - even the US can be said to be in this state, forget about India. India still struggles with a corrupt and inefficient judiciary, law enforcement and political institutions, possibly marginally better than that in Pakistan. But India's slightly better progress on those issues is not the question here - Pakistanis and Azad Kashmiris can see the reality of existence in both countries, yet they choose Pakistan - its not at all about something so trivial as 'governance'. Its about a far more basic and fundamental right to freedom, a far more basic and fundamental right to determine ones identity and which entity a people owe their allegiance to.

Your argument is akin to suggesting that you provide an individual with a luxurious house and expensive clothes, that another individual cannot provide, but that house and those clothes are useless because you deny that individual food an water - that 'food and water' is analogous to the basic right of freedom and self determination denied by India.

Beyond that Pakistan has a legitimate claim on the territory as the unfinished business of partition, and that claim is legitimate because India and her leadership accepted that claim when they agreed to the condition of a plebiscite in the case of a disputed accession, and when they agreed to each and every single UNSC resolution passed that called Kashmir disputed territory and are recommended a resolution of the dispute via referendum. India accepted that, and therefore accepted Pakistan's claim and potential right to the territory if the Kashmiris decided so.

Secondly, your comparison with the Palestinian areas only applies so far as the fact that both countries are occupying a people against their will - in act the Israelis are better than the Indians in that they at least have offered the Palestinians their state (however moth eaten) and India is not content with anything but gobbling up the entire territory.

Kashmir is already a democracy - so I don't see how that affects the "World's largest democracy title".

As far as plebiscite is concerned, there are geopolitical considerations which make it impossible for the valley to have full political independence.

Kashmir is not a free democracy - it is occupied and disputed territory - you could have a bunch of slaves on a colony and tell them to elect a leader from among themselves to represent them - they are still captive slaves.I don't consider fullindependence an option, nor is it an option under partition or UNSC resolutions.
 
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In 1948-9, the United Nations passed resolutions calling for a plebiscite in Kashmir on whether it should join India or Pakistan.

Ever since, India has refused to comply and blocked international efforts to resolve the issue, over which it has fought two of its three wars with Pakistan.

How true.

A mainstream Western newspaper reporting India blocking and violating international law.

A learned man.

Perhaps he read the Kashmir thread :cheers:
 
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The only way to solve the Kashmir problem is through referendum.

All areas were given a referendum in 1947 but Kashmir was never given a referendum. Its very unfair that Kashmiri voices are not being heard.
 
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i see Indians are still suffering from white mens complex.
 
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